We are Saved by Works..of course not!

[Yishai]

Its pretty tiring, that everybody just keeps squawking out this exact same phrase "we are not saved by works" whenever anyone talks about Keeping HOLY COMMANDS. 

Here is the facts that nobody wants to admit...breaking of ANY commandments is what Sin ACTUALLY IS...thats not up for debate its just a fact. 

-1st John 3:4 "Everyone practising sin also practises Lawlessness, and sin is the breaking of Torah"(The law)(not just the 10 words)

Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law(Torah) [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law(Torah). For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord(Master) is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned(in Tanakh) and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction..."

Here right in The Bible we have a warning label "so to speak" about people who are unlearned misunderstanding and twisting Pauls letters into something they do not say. And peter continues..

" Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord(Master) and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."

so what did the Messiah teach? Matt.5:17-19 "Do not think that I Have come to loosen Torah or the prophets, I have not come to loosen but to fulfill. 18. For truly I say to you that not one Yodh or Stroke will pass from Torah until everything happens. 19. All who loosen therefore from one of these small commandments and teach thus to the sons of man, will be called little in the Kingdom of Heaven, but all who do and teach this will be called great in The Kingdom of Heaven" 

-So we know Paul never contradicted this statment, as even by his own defence in Acts, for the exact same accusations.

2Tim 3:16 - All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of Yahweh, and [is] profitable for doctrine*, for reproof, for correction*, for instruction in righteousness*,17 that the man of Yahweh may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

Leviticus 4:27-30 "And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance(1john3:4), while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments (Matt 5:17-19)of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering,(repentance is our offering, under grace)a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest (now Yeshua)shall take of the blood (Blood of The Messiah)thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar."

We are to repent from our sins. After we are saved. Remember what sin is.(1st John 3.4)

Edited March 1, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

5 hours ago, Yishai said:

-So we know Paul never contradicted this statment, as even by his own defence in Acts, for the exact same accusations.

“But this indeed I acknowledge, that in that same doctrine of which they speak, I do serve the Elohim of my fathers, believing All the things which are written in Torah and in the prophets”-AENT 

here^^ we can see that Paul don’t just believe in some parts of Torah but every last bit and every letter of Torah and the prophets, does he believe.
 
Acts 25:8 “Meanwhile Paul maintained, that he had committed no offence, either against the Jewish Torah, or against the temple or against Caesar”-AENT  here the “Jewish Torah” is in contrast with oral law, Paul knew he was in Violation of oral torah aka the Talmud, but by the Torah from Moses he walked upright,even the accusers can’t deny this fact.

Its amazing He is still on trial for the same accusations.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Yishai

[Yishai]

key scripture proving that Paul believed that thru faith we do not make the Law void, but rather we establish the Law (To cause or make to stand, #2476).

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law(Torah)through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:15 - What then? Shall we sin(1st John 3.4) because we are not under Law but under grace? Certainly not! 

Romans 7:12 - Therefore Torah [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul delights in the Law of Yahweh(Torah)

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

 

And to This Day The Almighty's Torah is still teaching us what Sin actually is, and in turn it corrects ALL false doctrines.(2nd Tim 3:16)

This ends all thats been added to or taken away, brings everybody together into one Body, all rejoicing together in His Son,Ways, Feast, and Santuary.

-Every man of the Bible tried to (did)keep the Holy Commandments of YHWH

-ALL first followers of Y'shua haMashiyach WAS Practicing Jews.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Yishai

[Not me]

If I may be so bold as to present a question, which might even be a statement of fact;

When it is known why Paul was being accused of preaching a Gospel of;

“let us do evil that good may come”

the ground of our salvation in Christ will be known, and whether OSAS is a correct doctrine or not, will be known, and the why of it.... 

A thought to take before God.....

A fellow believer,  Not me 

[Yishai]

4 hours ago, Not me said:

If I may be so bold as to present a question, which might even be a statement of fact;

When it is known why Paul was being accused of preaching a Gospel of;

“let us do evil that good may come”

the ground of our salvation in Christ will be known, and whether OSAS is a correct doctrine or not, will be known, and the why of it.... 

A thought to take before God.....

A fellow believer,  Not me 

If paul ever did preach evil (he did not) then the false claims of him being a false apostle, would start to come to life...but its actually just people badly misunderstand Paul, the guy was like Einstein, which is why peter even gave a warning letter, for Pauls letters, bc people that are "unlearned"(of course in Tanakh) wont he able to properly understand them, just as yiu have displayed that Paul taught evil so good may come is not true, no offence. And he defended Himself against those very claims...

Idk what Osasa doctrine you speak of..I just know there is only one doctrine PERIOD. And that is The 3 on the mount...Moses, Elijah, and Y'shua, the law, the prophets and salvation.

Im of no church or doctrines. Was taught by Him to learn from no man or internet pages. Pure Word and Ruach haKodesh ONLY.

This Knowledge of Sin, is much more important than people know, it exposes the spirit of the pharisees(traditions first) within the Body of Messiah.

And in turn will begin to gather together the flock from the east and the west, and bring them back to Juersalem and it shall be called "the city of truth".

[missmuffet]

Justification is by faith alone. Genuine faith in Christ produces good works. 

[Yishai]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Justification is by faith alone. Genuine faith in Christ produces good works. 

This in no way disproves what I just said lol Sin is breaking of Torah...common people are sinning thru ignorance, as shown in Leviticus above..

now that it is coming to public knowledge factualy, His people are to give a offering of repentance, thats our job after Saved we repent. Facts.  (No different than my gay aunt saying shes not going to change, and its between her and God, she believes in Jesus too.)

Rebellion for tradition is when it gets scary.  

"Justification is by faith alone"

^^read title of thread, this is not a discussion on salvation lol its about 100% pure doctrine.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Yishai

[Not me]

6 hours ago, Yishai said:

If paul ever did preach evil (he did not) then the false claims of him being a false apostle, would start to come to life...but its actually just people badly misunderstand Paul, the guy was like Einstein, which is why peter even gave a warning letter, for Pauls letters, bc people that are "unlearned"(of course in Tanakh) wont he able to properly understand them, just as yiu have displayed that Paul taught evil so good may come is not true, no offence. And he defended Himself against those very claims...

Idk what Osasa doctrine you speak of..I just know there is only one doctrine PERIOD. And that is The 3 on the mount...Moses, Elijah, and Y'shua, the law, the prophets and salvation.

Im of no church or doctrines. Was taught by Him to learn from no man or internet pages. Pure Word and Ruach haKodesh ONLY.

This Knowledge of Sin, is much more important than people know, it exposes the spirit of the pharisees(traditions first) within the Body of Messiah.

And in turn will begin to gather together the flock from the east and the west, and bring them back to Juersalem and it shall be called "the city of truth".

Hi; 

The scripture teaches that Paul was accused of preaching, by some, a Gospel of;  “let us do evil that good may come”...

 Romans 3:8 (NASB)
And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.

The knowing of why he was being accused of such, was the point of my post...

As the Spirit of Christ in you, so teaches you Himself, be blessed.....

A fellow believer, Not me 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Not me

[Yishai]

9 minutes ago, Not me said:

The scripture teaches that Paul was accused of preaching, by some, a Gospel of;  “let us do evil that good may come”...

 Romans 3:8 (NASB)
And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.

The knowing of why he was being accused of such, was the point of my post...

As the Spirit of Christ in you, so teaches you Himself, be blessed.....

A fellow believer, Not me 

Oh, yes, I fully agree that he has always been accused of such, and still to this day, thanks for making that clear.

I thought you also was making the same accusations against him haha.

Be blessed brother.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Yishai

[other one]

Will we have works if we are saved      Of course we will.   They don't save us but are a general natural reaction to being saved...

That's what James was telling us.