Proof for Noah's Flood

[one.opinion]

17 hours ago, teddyv said:

So for the YEC'ers, is that a purity test for you? Is it salvific to believe in this doctrine?

As sad as it is, there are many that believe this.

[Paul James]

6 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Yet why do so many so-called 'Christians'  fall for the deception?

Is it simply and only because they do not turn everything , every thought , hope and dream, everything over to God ?

i.e. they hang on to 'sacred cows' type teachings, tickling their ears,  protecting something they don't want to turn over to God to believe God ?

There is an indication that as much as 50% of professing Christians are not genuinely converted to Christ, but attend church for social and religious reasons, and their "spirituality" is for outward show, in that they are angels at church but devils for the other six days of the week.   This is the principle of the wheat and the tares.  It is very difficult to tell the genuine from the fake, because to all intents and purposes, the outward appearance is exactly the same.  But God knows the hearts, and He knows who is genuinely converted or not.

I agree with you that many dream up their own image of a god that they feel comfortable with so they can retain their favourite and pleasurable sin, instead of forsaking it.   These ones can appear to do mighty things for God, cast out demons, and give great prophecies.  We see this in the prosperity, wealth gospel movements.  But we will see what Jesus' attitude will be to them: "Behold, I never knew you.  Depart from Me you workers of iniquity!"   

Many of those who conjure up in their minds their own image of God (which is idolatry) and follow a jesus other than the Jesus of the Bible, will embrace theistic evolution, because they don't want to subscribe to the God of the Bible who will hold them morally responsible for the way they are living their lives and the retention of their favourite sins which they don't want to forsake.

[The Barbarian]

19 hours ago, Willa said:

I have had excellent teachers and college professors who did not teach it in a way that was confrontative or in any way antagonistic to Christianity since they were Christians themselves. 

My first class in evolution was by a devout Christian who was on the board of his local Episcopal church.   Since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God, it's sad that so many libel him and Christian who accept evolution as "atheistic."   

Since it's not something on which one's salvation depends, I'm always surprised at the anger and hostility many YE creationists express toward Christians who don't accept their new doctrines.

 

[teddyv]

58 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Many of those who conjure up in their minds their own image of God (which is idolatry) and follow a jesus other than the Jesus of the Bible, will embrace theistic evolution, because they don't want to subscribe to the God of the Bible who will hold them morally responsible for the way they are living their lives and the retention of their favourite sins which they don't want to forsake.

I realize that you kind of qualified your statement with "many", but regardless I would find it surprising that any theistic evolutionists (I am assuming Christian in this case) would hold to it because "they don't want to subscribe to the God of the Bible who will hold them morally responsible for the way they are living their lives and the retention of their favourite sins which they don't want to forsake". I personally struggle with certain sins, but they have absolutely nothing to do with why I would fall into the theistic evolution camp.

Edited May 5, 2020 by teddyv
extra words

[Paul James]

1 hour ago, teddyv said:

I realize that you kind of qualified your statement with "many", but regardless I would find it surprising that any theistic evolutionists (I am assuming Christian in this case) would hold to it because "they don't want to subscribe to the God of the Bible who will hold them morally responsible for the way they are living their lives and the retention of their favourite sins which they don't want to forsake". I personally struggle with certain sins, but they have absolutely nothing to do with why I would fall into the theistic evolution camp.

We all struggle with the flesh as it wars against the Spirit in us.  All genuinely converted believers have that struggle.  "Nominal" professing Christians don't have that struggle because they are self-satisfied as they are, but are deliberately hiding their favourite sins from everyone, especially those whom they fellowship with in church.  One clue is hearing some saying, "I don't sin any more"; or , "I have full victory over sin", or, "I haven't sinned for the last 30 years".  This type of comment should raise red flags for those who genuinely love the Lord, hate the presence of sin in their flesh, and struggle with it every day.

[The Barbarian]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:57 AM, Willa said:

Evolution is not what you apparently think it is either.  It is slow changes in different species over time.  There are different schools in evolution as well.

ev·o·lu·tion| ˌevəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n | noun  1 the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.

2 the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form: the forms of written languages undergo constant evolution.  

In science, it's a bit different.   Originally, Darwin defined it as "descent with modification."    After the rediscovery of Mendel's work in genetics, it became " a change in allele frequency in a population over time."   Dictionaries often confuse common descent (a consequence of evolution) with evolution itself.

 

[The Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Paul James said:

We all struggle with the flesh as it wars against the Spirit in us.  All genuinely converted believers have that struggle.  "Nominal" professing Christians don't have that struggle because they are self-satisfied as they are, but are deliberately hiding their favourite sins from everyone, especially those whom they fellowship with in church.  One clue is hearing some saying, "I don't sin any more"; or , "I have full victory over sin", or, "I haven't sinned for the last 30 years".  This type of comment should raise red flags for those who genuinely love the Lord, hate the presence of sin in their flesh, and struggle with it every day.

What are they doing in church?    God's Church is for sinners who are seeking to do better.    If you are without sin, you have no need of His Church.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by The Barbarian

[Paul James]

14 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

What are they doing in church?    God's Church is for sinners who are seeking to do better.    If you are without sin, you have no need of His Church.

 

One can sometimes pick the ones that think they don't need deodorant when they visit the toilet.  The are the ones holier than the rest of us, and when we look up to them it gives us a pain in the neck.

[servant of Christ]

On 2/29/2020 at 8:12 PM, dhchristian said:

I Found this article and just wanted to share this here and get some thoughts.

Anthropologists have collected 250 to 300 flood stories from different nations. If all peoples are descended from Noah, then these stories show that common ancestry. Each story has two or more people being saved because of a special boat.

Noah wrote a book known as "The Generations of Noah", and Moses included part of it in Genesis. (Genesis 6:19 - 9:28) He related the story of the flood as he saw it personally.

The Babylonian tradition shows remarkable similarities. It was recorded by Berosus in 300 BC, basing his story on the archives of the temple of Marduk in Babylon. The story says Xisuthrus was warned by the gods to build a ship. He took with him friends, relatives and different animals. After the flood waters began to subside, his ship was stranded in Armenia. Birds were sent out. After leaving the ship he offered a sacrifice.

The flood tablets, found by George Smith (1872) in the library of Assurbanipal in Nineveh which were copied from tablets dating back to the first dynasty of Ur (before Abraham), tell the same story as recorded by Berosus.

The Egyptians had a legend that the gods at one time purified the earth by a great flood - only a few shepherds escaped by climbing a mountain.

The Greek story tells about Deucalion, who was warned by the gods of a flood. He built an ark. The story also tells of a dove being sent out twice.

The Hindu flood story tells of Manu, who builds a ship, but only he alone was saved.

The Chinese flood story relates how Fa-he, founder of the Chinese civilization, escaped a great flood. After man had rebelled against God, Fa-he, his three sons, their wives, and Fa-he's wife escaped.

In England, the Druids had a legend that the world had been repeopled by a righteous man who had been saved in a ship from a great flood.

The Polynesian story tells of a flood where eight escape in a canoe.

The American Indians stories show that in more than 100 tribes, one, three, or eight people are saved in a boat that finally sat upon a high mountain as the waters began to subside.

The story from Greenland tells that the earth once tilted and all men drowned except one. Supposedly, he smote the earth with a stick and a woman appeared.

Each of these stories show that there is a universal concept of a flood , suggesting that they all have a common origin. Since the confusion of languages at Babel, the names have been changed - but enough details are the same to show they all come from Noah's Genesis account.

https://www.armyofprophets.com/post/7-enoch-prophesied-about-the-flood-7475400

I Highlighted the one from Greenland for a reason, As it Points to second proof. The Book of Enoch speaks of the Earth "inclining". 1. In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached. (64:1, Continue and read this chapter At link: http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-64-sect-xi/)

There is also a theory out there, by a mathematician named George Dodwell that Looked at the archeological evidence from sundials and temples that point to the solstices, and what he found was that there was a significant change around about the time of the flood to the ecliptic of the earth. His entire work is found at the following link if you wish to read this.

http://setterfield.org/Dodwell/Dodwell_Manuscript_1.html#chapter_1

What this is telling us is that there was  change in the tilt of the earth around the time of the flood from it being nearly vertical in relation to the 23 degree tilt we have now. This is known as the Obliquity of the Ecliptic. 

What does this mean? What this means is that seasons were not as harsh before this "inclination" took place. The Polar regions of the earth would have a milder climate and not have extremes of winter, and the tropical regions covered a larger swath of the earth. Before the Axis of the earth inclined. What this means is that finding tropical plants fossils in places like Alaska would not be out of the question... See Link:

https://www.gi.alaska.edu/alaska-science-forum/tropical-fossils-alaska

What are your thoughts on this? Are there other evidences for the flood that strike you as overlooked like the above ones are? Read the account in the book of Enoch above does this not sound like a rapid tilt in the earth's axis? 

I love this topic!  Thanks for posting all of that, I will have to read it later.  Here is what I have found regarding this topic:

There are hosts of information online about this. I have documents galore on this, and I sort of need help sorting it out. Was the flood story adapted from the chinese myths of a flood or from other Mediterranean myths of floods? I think this is a summary of a book that came out about 15 years ago that was a best seller at a creations conference, but the author posted this article: http://www.annomundi.com/history/forgotten_history_aig_tj.pdf

There are also other books, from pagan historians speaking of noahs sons populating different countries. Again you will have some errors, all of history has error. It's not like the Bible, infallible. So if you have conflicting accounts you simply research more. But this guy has done most of the legwork. But anyway. There are histories chronicled of noahs sons all the way to china etc. And that would be (my theory) why there were flood stories in china, and why they theorize 8 people saved by water, as their language says (in ancient chinese).

some more links:
Forgotten History of the Western People (best selling book at 2006 creation conference)

pre flood babylon?:
Was There a Pre-Flood Babylon?

Borosus a chaldean priest (non jewish historian) documents noahs generations after the flood:
The Travels of Noah into Europe-1601 version.docx

book after the flood by bill cooper:
After the Flood, by Bill Cooper

Edited June 11, 2020 by servant of Christ

[servant of Christ]

On 2/29/2020 at 8:12 PM, dhchristian said:

I Found this article and just wanted to share this here and get some thoughts.

Anthropologists have collected 250 to 300 flood stories from different nations. If all peoples are descended from Noah, then these stories show that common ancestry. Each story has two or more people being saved because of a special boat.

Noah wrote a book known as "The Generations of Noah", and Moses included part of it in Genesis. (Genesis 6:19 - 9:28) He related the story of the flood as he saw it personally.

The Babylonian tradition shows remarkable similarities. It was recorded by Berosus in 300 BC, basing his story on the archives of the temple of Marduk in Babylon. The story says Xisuthrus was warned by the gods to build a ship. He took with him friends, relatives and different animals. After the flood waters began to subside, his ship was stranded in Armenia. Birds were sent out. After leaving the ship he offered a sacrifice.

The flood tablets, found by George Smith (1872) in the library of Assurbanipal in Nineveh which were copied from tablets dating back to the first dynasty of Ur (before Abraham), tell the same story as recorded by Berosus.

The Egyptians had a legend that the gods at one time purified the earth by a great flood - only a few shepherds escaped by climbing a mountain.

The Greek story tells about Deucalion, who was warned by the gods of a flood. He built an ark. The story also tells of a dove being sent out twice.

The Hindu flood story tells of Manu, who builds a ship, but only he alone was saved.

The Chinese flood story relates how Fa-he, founder of the Chinese civilization, escaped a great flood. After man had rebelled against God, Fa-he, his three sons, their wives, and Fa-he's wife escaped.

In England, the Druids had a legend that the world had been repeopled by a righteous man who had been saved in a ship from a great flood.

The Polynesian story tells of a flood where eight escape in a canoe.

The American Indians stories show that in more than 100 tribes, one, three, or eight people are saved in a boat that finally sat upon a high mountain as the waters began to subside.

The story from Greenland tells that the earth once tilted and all men drowned except one. Supposedly, he smote the earth with a stick and a woman appeared.

Each of these stories show that there is a universal concept of a flood , suggesting that they all have a common origin. Since the confusion of languages at Babel, the names have been changed - but enough details are the same to show they all come from Noah's Genesis account.

https://www.armyofprophets.com/post/7-enoch-prophesied-about-the-flood-7475400

I Highlighted the one from Greenland for a reason, As it Points to second proof. The Book of Enoch speaks of the Earth "inclining". 1. In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached. (64:1, Continue and read this chapter At link: http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-64-sect-xi/)

There is also a theory out there, by a mathematician named George Dodwell that Looked at the archeological evidence from sundials and temples that point to the solstices, and what he found was that there was a significant change around about the time of the flood to the ecliptic of the earth. His entire work is found at the following link if you wish to read this.

http://setterfield.org/Dodwell/Dodwell_Manuscript_1.html#chapter_1

What this is telling us is that there was  change in the tilt of the earth around the time of the flood from it being nearly vertical in relation to the 23 degree tilt we have now. This is known as the Obliquity of the Ecliptic. 

What does this mean? What this means is that seasons were not as harsh before this "inclination" took place. The Polar regions of the earth would have a milder climate and not have extremes of winter, and the tropical regions covered a larger swath of the earth. Before the Axis of the earth inclined. What this means is that finding tropical plants fossils in places like Alaska would not be out of the question... See Link:

https://www.gi.alaska.edu/alaska-science-forum/tropical-fossils-alaska

What are your thoughts on this? Are there other evidences for the flood that strike you as overlooked like the above ones are? Read the account in the book of Enoch above does this not sound like a rapid tilt in the earth's axis? 

I made a mp3 of the free book after the flood, I also have a word document if needed.  I am about half way through it, it's amazingly detailed.  It was almost dry the amount of detail it had.  But for some who are more into history this would be a gem.

 

Here is the mp3

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NaXPEqMiWAWw01m-rGsJXqbH5Va-ZJ5-/view?usp=sharing