answering the claim we don't need teachers

[Daniel Marsh]

The statements that the Holy Spirit in the Gospels will teach are for the Apostles only from the Context, not written to all Christians in every time period.

John 14:26

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Matthew 10:19-20
"But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

Mark 13:11

"When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.

Luke 12:12

for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

[Daniel Marsh]

Jesus does give the Church Teachers too.    Authors of books fall in that area.  The Special gift of the Holy Spirit Teaching is in the face of dealing with someone in a cult --- who is trying to teach us false doctrines.    In my humble opinion it is a combo of discernment and teaching correction of false doctrine via the Holy Spirit to the Cultist.    It is understood that John wrote his letters to deal with Gnostics and a Jewish Sect.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1 John 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
  
2 My dear children, I write this letter to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone sins, we have Jesus Christ to help us. He always did what was right, so he is able to defend us before God the Father. 2 Jesus is the way our sins are taken away. And he is the way all people can have their sins taken away too.

3 If we obey what God has told us to do, then we are sure that we know him. 4 If we say we know God but do not obey his commands, we are lying. The truth is not in us. 5 But when we obey God’s teaching, his love is truly working in us. This is how we know that we are living in him. 6 If we say we live in God, we must live the way Jesus lived.

Jesus Told Us to Love Others
7 My dear friends, I am not writing a new command to you. It is the same command you have had since the beginning. This command is the teaching you have already heard. 8 But what I write is also a new command. It is a true one; you can see its truth in Jesus and in yourselves. The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 Someone might say, “I am in the light,” but if they hate any of their brothers or sisters in God’s family, they are still in the darkness. 10 Those who love their brothers and sisters live in the light, and there is nothing in them that will make them do wrong. 11 But whoever hates their brother or sister is in darkness. They live in darkness. They don’t know where they are going, because the darkness has made them blind.

12 I write to you, dear children,
    because your sins are forgiven through Christ.
13 I write to you, fathers,
    because you know the one who existed from the beginning.
I write to you, young people,
    because you have defeated the Evil One.
14 I write to you, children,
    because you know the Father.
I write to you, fathers,
    because you know the one who existed from the beginning.
I write to you, young people,
    because you are strong.
The word of God lives in you,
    and you have defeated the Evil One.

15 Don’t love this evil world or the things in it. If you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. 16 This is all there is in the world: wanting to please our sinful selves, wanting the sinful things we see, and being too proud of what we have. But none of these comes from the Father. They come from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and all the things that people want in the world are passing away. But whoever does what God wants will live forever.

Don’t Follow the Enemies of Christ
18 My dear children, the end is near! You have heard that the enemy of Christ is coming. And now many enemies of Christ are already here. So we know that the end is near. 19 These enemies were in our group, but they left us. They did not really belong with us. If they were really part of our group, they would have stayed with us. But they left. This shows that none of them really belonged with us.

20 You have the gift that the Holy One gave you. So you all know the truth. 21 Do you think I am writing this letter because you don’t know the truth? No, I am writing because you do know the truth. And you know that no lie comes from the truth.

22 So who is the liar? It is the one who says Jesus is not the Messiah. Whoever says that is the enemy of Christ—the one who does not believe in the Father or in his Son. 23 Whoever does not believe in the Son does not have the Father, but whoever accepts the Son has the Father too.

ME:  Christian Science via Mary Baker Eddy is one of those Liars.   They do not understand the idea Messiah.   She taught that Jesus was only a man who was the way shower and that Christ is simply an idea of divinity in people.

24 Be sure that you continue to follow the teaching you heard from the beginning. If you do that, you will always be in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what the Son promised us—eternal life.

26 I am writing this letter about those who are trying to lead you into the wrong way. 27 Christ gave you a special gift. You still have this gift in you. So you don’t need anyone to teach you. The gift he gave you teaches you about everything. It is a true gift, not a false one. So continue to live in Christ, as his gift taught you.

28 Yes, my dear children, live in him. If we do this, we can be without fear on the day when Christ comes again. We will not need to hide and be ashamed when he comes. 29 You know that Christ always did what was right. So you know that all those who do what is right are God’s children.

Footnotes:
1 John 2:20 gift Literally, “anointing.” This might mean the Holy Spirit. Or it might mean teaching or truth as in verse 24. Also in verse 27.
1 John 2:20 Holy One God or Christ.

[Daniel Marsh]

In the context this is written to Israel, not the Church in the New Covenant. 

Nehemiah 9:20 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
You gave them your good Spirit to make them wise.
    You gave them manna for food.
    You gave them water for their thirst.

Nehemiah 9:20 Expanded Bible (EXB)
20 You ·gave [sent; imparted] your good Spirit to ·teach [instruct] them.
    You ·gave them manna to eat [L did not withhold manna from their mouth]
    and gave them water when they were thirsty.

Nehemiah 9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The People of Israel Confess Their Sins
9 Then on the 24th day of that same month, the Israelites gathered together for a day of fasting. They wore sackcloth and put ashes on their heads to show they were sad and upset. 2 Those people who were true Israelites separated themselves from foreigners. The Israelites stood and confessed their sins and the sins of their ancestors. 3 They stood there for about three hours, and the people read the Book of the Law of the Lord their God. Then for three more hours they confessed their sins and bowed down to worship the Lord their God.

4 Then these Levites stood on the stairs: Jeshua, Bani, Kadmiel, Shebaniah, Bunni, Sherebiah, Bani, and Kenani. They called out to the Lord their God with loud voices. 5 Then these Levites spoke again: Jeshua, Bani, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabneiah, Sherebiah, Hodiah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah. They said, “Stand up and praise the Lord your God! God has always lived and will live forever.

“People should praise your glorious name.
    May your name be lifted above all blessing and praise.
6 You are God.
    Lord, only you are God.
You made the sky and the highest heavens
    and everything in them.
You made the earth
    and everything on it.
You made the seas
    and everything in them.
You give life to everything.
    All the heavenly angels bow down and worship you.
7 You are the Lord,
    the God who chose Abram.
You led him from Ur in Babylonia.
    You changed his name to Abraham.
8 You saw he was true and loyal to you,
    and you made an agreement with him.
You promised to give him the land
    of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites, and Girgashites.
But you promised to give that land to Abraham’s descendants.
    And you kept your promise because you are good.
9 You saw our ancestors suffering in Egypt
    and heard them call for help by the Red Sea.
10 You showed the miracles to Pharaoh.
    You did amazing things to his officials and his people.
You knew that the Egyptians thought
    they were better than our ancestors.
But you proved how great you are,
    and they remember that even today.
11 You split the Red Sea in front of them,
    and they walked through on dry land.
The Egyptian soldiers were chasing them,
    but you threw that enemy into the sea.
    And they sank like a rock into the sea.
12 With the tall cloud, you led them by day,
    and at night you used the column of fire.
That is the way you lit their path
    and showed them where to go.
13 Then you came down to Mount Sinai.
    You spoke to them from heaven.
You gave them good laws.
    You gave them true teachings.
    You gave them laws and commands that were very good.
14 You told them about your special day of rest—the Sabbath.
    Through your servant Moses,
    you gave them commands, laws, and teachings.
15 They were hungry,
    so you gave them food from heaven.
They were thirsty,
    so you gave them water from a rock.
You told them,
    ‘Come, take this land.’
You used your power,
    and took the land for them.
16 But our ancestors became proud and stubborn.
    They refused to obey your commands.
17 They refused to listen.
    They forgot the amazing things you did with them.
They became stubborn.
    They decided to return to Egypt and become slaves again.

“But you are a forgiving God!
    You are kind and full of mercy.
You are patient and full of love.
So you didn’t leave them!
18 You didn’t leave them even when they made golden calves and said,
    ‘These are the gods that led us out of Egypt.’
19 You are very kind,
    so you didn’t leave them in the desert.
You didn’t take the tall cloud
    away from them by day.
You continued to lead them.
You didn’t take the column of fire
    away from them at night.
You continued to light their path
    and to show them which way to go.
20 You gave them your good Spirit to make them wise.
    You gave them manna for food.
    You gave them water for their thirst.
21 You took care of them for 40 years.
    They had all they needed in the desert.
Their clothes didn’t wear out,
    and their feet didn’t swell and hurt.
22 You gave them kingdoms and nations,
    and you gave them faraway places where few people live.
They got the land of King Sihon of Heshbon.
    They got the land of King Og of Bashan.
23 You made their descendants
    as many as the stars in the sky.
You brought them to the land
    you promised to give their ancestors.
    They went in and took that land.
24 Their children took the land.
They defeated the Canaanites living there.
    You let them defeat those people.
You let them do whatever they wanted
    to those nations, people, and kings.
25 They defeated powerful cities.
    They took the fertile land.
They got houses filled with good things.
    They got wells that were already dug.
They got vineyards, olive trees, and plenty of fruit trees.
    They ate until they were full and fat.
They enjoyed all the wonderful things you gave them.
26 And then they turned against you.
    They threw away your teachings.
    They killed your prophets.
Those prophets warned the people.
    They tried to bring them back to you.
    But our ancestors said terrible things against you.
27 So you let their enemies have them.
    The enemy caused them much trouble.
When trouble came, our ancestors called to you for help.
    And in heaven, you heard them.
You are very kind,
    so you sent people to save them.
    And they rescued them from their enemies.
28 Then as soon as our ancestors were rested,
    they started doing terrible things again!
So you let the enemy defeat them
    and punish them.
They called to you for help,
    and in heaven you heard them and helped them.
You are so kind.
    That happened so many times.
29 You warned them.
You told them to come back,
    but they were too proud.
    They refused to listen to your commands.
If people obey your laws, they will live.
    But our ancestors broke your laws.
They were stubborn.
    They turned their backs on you.
    They refused to listen.

30 “You were very patient with our ancestors.
    You let them mistreat you for many years.
You warned them with your Spirit.
    You sent the prophets to warn them.
But our ancestors didn’t listen.
    So you gave them to people in other countries.

31 “But you are so kind!
    You didn’t completely destroy them.
You didn’t leave them.
    You are such a kind and merciful God!
32 Our God, you are the great God,
    the awesome, powerful soldier!
You are kind and loyal.
    You keep your agreement.
We have had many troubles,
    and our troubles are important to you.
Bad things happened to all our people,
    and to our kings and leaders,
    and to our priests and prophets.
Those terrible things have happened
    from the days of the king of Assyria until today!
33 But God, you were right about everything that happened to us.
    You were right, and we were wrong.
34 Our kings, leaders, priests, and fathers did not obey your law.
    They didn’t listen to your commands.
    They ignored your warnings.
35 Our ancestors didn’t serve you even when they were living in their own kingdom.
    They didn’t stop doing evil.
    They enjoyed all the wonderful things you gave them.
They enjoyed the rich land and had plenty of room,
    but they didn’t stop their evil ways.
36 And now, we are slaves.
We are slaves in this land,
    the land you gave our ancestors
    so they could enjoy its fruit
    and all the good things that grow here.
37 The harvest is big in this land.
    But we sinned, so that harvest goes to the kings you put over us.
They control us and our cattle.
    They do anything they want.
    We are in a lot of trouble.

38 “Because of all these things, we are making an agreement that cannot be changed. We are putting this agreement in writing. Our leaders, Levites, and priests are signing their names to this agreement and sealing it with a seal.”

[Daniel Marsh]

2 Thessalonians 3:12 Our instruction to them is to stop bothering others, to start working and earn their own food. It is by the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ that we are urging them to do this.

1 Corinthians 4:15For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

2 Timothy 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Acts 5:25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

Acts 15:35Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

Acts 18:11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

[Daniel Marsh]

1 Corinthians 2:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

This indicates the Holy Spirit teaching Paul as an Apostle. 

[Daniel Marsh]

The person in Eph 4 is Paul teaching,  not the Holy Spirit. 

English Standard Version
assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,

Good News Translation
You certainly heard about him, and as his followers you were taught the truth that is in Jesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
If truly you have heard him and you have learned of him, as whatever is truth is in Yeshua.

in
ἐν (en)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1722: In, on, among. A primary preposition denoting position, and instrumentality, i.e. A relation of rest; 'in, ' at, on, by, etc.

"Ye have heard him . . .--The true rendering here is, ye heard Him, and were taught in Him. St. Paul begins with the first means of knowledge, the "hearing" His voice, directly or through His ministers; and then proceeds to describe the fuller and more systematic process of "being taught," not "by Him" (as in our version), but "in Him," that is, in that unity with Him which embraces both teachers and taught as with an atmosphere of His presence."https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-21.htm

"If so be that (ei ge). "If indeed." Condition of first class with aorist indicatives here, assumed to be true (hkousate kai edidacqhte). Even as truth is in Jesus (kaqw estin alhqeia en twi Ihsou). It is not clear what Paul's precise idea is here. The Cerinthian Gnostics did distinguish between the man Jesus and the aeon Christ. Paul here identifies Christ (verse Galatians 20 ) and Jesus (verse Galatians 21 ). At any rate he flatly affirms that there is "truth in Jesus" which is in direct opposition to the heathen manner of life and which is further explained by the epexegetical infinitives that follow (apoqesqai, ananeousqai de, kai endusasqai)."  https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/ephesians/ephesians-4-21.html

Ephesians 4:17-23 Good News Translation (GNT)
 
17 In the Lord's name, then, I warn you: do not continue to live like the heathen, whose thoughts are worthless 18 and whose minds are in the dark. They have no part in the life that God gives, for they are completely ignorant and stubborn. 19 They have lost all feeling of shame; they give themselves over to vice and do all sorts of indecent things without restraint.

20 That was not what you learned about Christ! 21 You certainly heard about him, and as his followers you were taught the truth that is in Jesus. 22 So get rid of your old self, which made you live as you used to—the old self that was being destroyed by its deceitful desires. 23 Your hearts and minds must be made completely new,

In the context and Greek Grammar, it is clear that it is Paul who is teaching not Jesus directly.    

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

God has gifted His Children with Great Teachers.....Anybody is free to ignore them.....Guess who pays the price?  It’s just like those who refuse to be “ able students of the Word.....rightly dividing the Word Of God”....I couldn’t care less if somebody refuses to educate themselves in regard to the Things Of God......If people think that the parading of their ignorance is a virtue — let them have at it ! 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Blood Bought 1953

[Michael37]

19 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

The person in Eph 4 is Paul teaching,  not the Holy Spirit. 

English Standard Version
assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,

Good News Translation
You certainly heard about him, and as his followers you were taught the truth that is in Jesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
If truly you have heard him and you have learned of him, as whatever is truth is in Yeshua.

in
ἐν (en)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1722: In, on, among. A primary preposition denoting position, and instrumentality, i.e. A relation of rest; 'in, ' at, on, by, etc.

"Ye have heard him . . .--The true rendering here is, ye heard Him, and were taught in Him. St. Paul begins with the first means of knowledge, the "hearing" His voice, directly or through His ministers; and then proceeds to describe the fuller and more systematic process of "being taught," not "by Him" (as in our version), but "in Him," that is, in that unity with Him which embraces both teachers and taught as with an atmosphere of His presence."https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-21.htm

"If so be that (ei ge). "If indeed." Condition of first class with aorist indicatives here, assumed to be true (hkousate kai edidacqhte). Even as truth is in Jesus (kaqw estin alhqeia en twi Ihsou). It is not clear what Paul's precise idea is here. The Cerinthian Gnostics did distinguish between the man Jesus and the aeon Christ. Paul here identifies Christ (verse Galatians 20 ) and Jesus (verse Galatians 21 ). At any rate he flatly affirms that there is "truth in Jesus" which is in direct opposition to the heathen manner of life and which is further explained by the epexegetical infinitives that follow (apoqesqai, ananeousqai de, kai endusasqai)."  https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/ephesians/ephesians-4-21.html

Ephesians 4:17-23 Good News Translation (GNT)
 
17 In the Lord's name, then, I warn you: do not continue to live like the heathen, whose thoughts are worthless 18 and whose minds are in the dark. They have no part in the life that God gives, for they are completely ignorant and stubborn. 19 They have lost all feeling of shame; they give themselves over to vice and do all sorts of indecent things without restraint.

20 That was not what you learned about Christ! 21 You certainly heard about him, and as his followers you were taught the truth that is in Jesus. 22 So get rid of your old self, which made you live as you used to—the old self that was being destroyed by its deceitful desires. 23 Your hearts and minds must be made completely new,

In the context and Greek Grammar, it is clear that it is Paul who is teaching not Jesus directly.    

Notice the capitalization in the English Majority Text Version Eph 4:20-21

(20) But you did not thus learn Christ,

(21) if indeed you have heard Him and were instructed by Him, just as the truth is in Jesus:

[Daniel Marsh]

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

I had no idea some were saying we don't need teachers. Thanks for highlighting this.

Hi Mary Jayne, online I often encounter those who claim that the Holy Spirit taught them everything they know about the Bible and doctrine.    You will find that they 1) ignore context which is why I post a full passage for all to read.   2) They often ignore English, Greek and Hebrew grammar, thus coming up with odd interpretations.   3) copy and paste without giving a link to its source.  4)  have no idea of the Cultural Background.   I once had someone claim that Jesus was a vegitarian and did not eat lamb at the passover meal that he ate a day early before going to the cross.  5)  misquote sources which is why I ask for primary sources with links, so I can check it.   6)  In the case of Eph 4,  use a devotional commentary like Matthew Henry rather than something exegetical like Word Pictures in the Greek NT by Robertson.   Who was a Greek scholar.

I think their primary purpose in claiming we do not need teachers and they are fully inspired by Holy Spirit is to steal for themselves authority that they have not earned.   In person,  I often smile at such a person, put my arm around them and say your nuts,  now lets be real.

There is a doctrine that the Holy Spirit only directly taught the Apostles, which I am trying to deal with in the other thread,  

 

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

I had no idea some were saying we dont need teachers. Thanks for highlighting this.

 People say a lot of things.  Mostly I just (sigh)