answering the claim we don't need teachers

[Daniel Marsh]

There is a doctrine that the Holy Spirit only directly taught the Apostles, which I am trying to deal with here.

So far well meaning friends here,  have given examples of people teaching by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I am looking for examples of where the Holy Spirit taught directly someone who is not an Apostle.

Paul makes the claim of being taught by him.

Here are the poof texts that are used, with links at bottom to check the context of each.

Galatians 2:1-2 Good News Translation (GNT)
2 Fourteen years later I went back to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went because God revealed to me that I should go. In a private meeting with the leaders I explained the gospel message that I preach to the Gentiles. I did not want my work in the past or in the present to be a failure.

Galatians 2:9 Good News Translation (GNT)
9 James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be the leaders, recognized that God had given me this special task; so they shook hands with Barnabas and me, as a sign that we were all partners. We agreed that Barnabas and I would work among the Gentiles and they among the Jews.

[Daniel Marsh]

33 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Notice the capitalization in the English Majority Text Version Eph 4:20-21

(20) But you did not thus learn Christ,

(21) if indeed you have heard Him and were instructed by Him, just as the truth is in Jesus:

With all respect, the word for "by" is correctly translated as "in"  ----  we as the body of Christ have learned more about Greek word usage than was available to the KJV translators.   

in
ἐν (en)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1722: In, on, among. A primary preposition denoting position, and instrumentality, i.e. A relation of rest; 'in, ' at, on, by, etc.

"Ye have heard him . . .--The true rendering here is, ye heard Him, and were taught in Him. St. Paul begins with the first means of knowledge, the "hearing" His voice, directly or through His ministers; and then proceeds to describe the fuller and more systematic process of "being taught," not "by Him" (as in our version), but "in Him," that is, in that unity with Him which embraces both teachers and taught as with an atmosphere of His presence."https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-21.htm

Many translated bibles today are simply revisions of the KJV like the Modern English Version (MEV)

[Neighbor]

Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch

 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place.  And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship  and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah.  And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.”  So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”  And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
    and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
    so he opens not his mouth.
 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
    Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”  Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.  And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.  And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.  But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

1 John 2:26-27 The Passion Translation (TPT)
26 I’ve written these things about those who are attempting to lead you astray. 27 But the wonderful anointing you have received from God[a] is so much greater than their deception and now lives in you. There’s no need for anyone to keep teaching you. His anointing teaches you all that you need to know, for it will lead you into truth, not a counterfeit. So just as the anointing has taught you, remain in him

1 John 2:26-27 The Message (MSG)
26-27 I’ve written to warn you about those who are trying to deceive you. But they’re no match for what is embedded deeply within you—Christ’s anointing, no less! You don’t need any of their so-called teaching. Christ’s anointing teaches you the truth on everything you need to know about yourself and him, uncontaminated by a single lie. Live deeply in what you were taught.

The context of the text is a specific situation related to discernment,  not direct teaching of doctrine like Paul claimed he got.

In short, Paul's claim is that he was taught doctrine directly by Christ and only consulted with Peter and the others 14 years later.

[Daniel Marsh]

23 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

For what it's worth, in no order of importance, I am currently taught by scripture, mature Christians on here, the Holy Spirit, remembrances of scripture during prayers, and things coming to mind during dreams which I then talk to God about for gradual healing from my past.

All such teaching and teachers are valid, according to scripture I have read.

I agree fully,  the parts about the Holy Spirit is known as illumination. 

https://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html

'Illumination' in the Bible

Job 33:6
 
Behold, I am toward God and before Him even as you are; I also am formed out of the clay [though I speak with abnormal wisdom because of a divine illumination].

 
John 7:17
 
If any man desires to do His will (God's pleasure), he will know (have the needed illumination to recognize, and can tell for himself) whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking from Myself and of My own accord and on My own authority.

 
1 Cor 1:5
 
[So] that in Him in every respect you were enriched, in full power and readiness of speech [to speak of your faith] and complete knowledge and illumination [to give you full insight into its meaning].

 
1 Cor 12:7
 
But to each one is given the manifestation of the [Holy] Spirit [the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit] for good and profit.

 
2 Cor 4:6
 
For God Who said, Let light shine out of darkness, has shone in our hearts so as [to beam forth] the Light for the illumination of the knowledge of the majesty and glory of God [as it is manifest in the Person and is revealed] in the face of Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

 
1 Tim 6:20
 
O Timothy, guard and keep the deposit entrusted [to you]! Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Illumination

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?nfpr=1&sxsrf=ALeKk00eXCMtex0I4HfqsQCvF52-hu_qMw:1583965119997&q=Holy+Spirit+illumination&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqlcHyuZPoAhUS26wKHbmNBukQBSgAegQIBBAn&biw=1163&bih=527

[Daniel Marsh]

18 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

I can't believe you are using The Message to quote from.

why?   I only used it because it shows the historical context better.

[Daniel Marsh]

16 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

1 John 2:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [a]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Yes, we do abide in him and God abides in us.    It is interaction with the Holy Spirit and Scripture that helps us in discernment.

The full context of this book of second John is dealing with false teachers,  who were trying to teach false doctrine in their house church. 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"During the first two centuries the gospel was taken from place to place by traveling evangelists and teachers. Believers customarily took these missionaries into their homes and gave them provisions for their journey when they left. Since Gnostic teachers also relied on this practice (see note on 3Jn 5), 2 John was written to urge discernment in supporting traveling teachers; otherwise, someone might unintentionally contribute to the propagation of heresy rather than truth."

https://www.biblica.com/resources/scholar-notes/niv-study-bible/intro-to-2-john/

 

"

IV. OCCASION AND PURPOSES:

A. Occasion: It seems that John is writing again to combat incipient Docetic Gnosticism (Christ was not really a divine person in human flesh (v 7).⁵ He was only a phantom playing the human role. He only appeared to have real humanity. Once again there is a dualism emphasizing that the physical is evil and the spiritual is good. The correlates with 1 John 2:18-27 and especially 4:1-6 (in particular 4:2).

B. Purpose: To warn believers of the perils of being indiscriminate in their interactions with those who teach lies about Jesus:

1. To defend the truth which is the unifying bond between believers (1-4)

2. To clarify love as obeying Christ and not being indiscriminate (and thus accepting) with the enemies of Christ (5-11)

3. To encourage faithfulness to doctrinal purity so that believers will not forfeit reward at the bema of Christ, but might experience the fullness of fellowship (8-9, 12 “that your joy may be full”)."

https://bible.org/article/introduction-book-2-john

 

 

 

---

¹ Guthrie, NTI, 884-85. In addition Guthrie writes, “It is significant that

[appy]

3 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

There is a doctrine that the Holy Spirit only directly taught the Apostles, which I am trying to deal with in the other thread,  

What group of people are claiming this?  jw's?  mormon's? other? Since they have an altogether different Jesus, than the bible teaches it also makes sense that they are hearing from a false spirit too. 

[Daniel Marsh]

I don't think JWs believe that the Holy Spirit indwells them.    I will have to look at up.  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010734   From their page, they do not believe the Holy Spirit indwells them.    The two threads may give us a way to witness to them.   

Mostly Pentecostal Charismatic leanings --- not all in such groups.   Oneness Pentecostals aka Jesus Only tends to be that way.

Latter Day Saints tend to lean that way too.     Those with weak positions sometimes make such claims. 

good night all and to all a great tomorrow  ho ho ho

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Daniel Marsh