Jehovah Witnesses and the role of the Holy Spirit

[ahmedcrow]

Gospel said that there are three witness in heaven, the father, the son and the holy spirit, I think it's in one of John's messages, the holy spirit can take forms like the dove, and Gospel is clear about the faith of holy spirit but there's no much details about how holy spirit works nor how he looks like nor his abilities. Holy spirit concept is so essential basic one in Christianity and refusing it will make another kind of Christianity. I think that.

[steve morrow]

dr this and dr that founder of jws and mormons and seventh day adventists a pope etc  even a third person god --- and yet THERE  IS  ONE  JESUS  CHRIST  OUR  LORD  AND  SAVIOUR  WHO  TEACHES  US

 

ACTS 4:12  neither is there salvation in any other for there is---NONE  OTHER  NAME---under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved 

2 CORINTHIANS 8:5  for though there be that --ARE  CALLED  GODS-- whether in heaven or in earth as there be gods many and lords many   

--8:6-- BUT  TO  US -- there is but one GOD  THE  FATHER  of whom are all things and we in  HIM  and one  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  by whom are all things and we by  HIM 

 

1 TIMOTHY 2:5  FOR  THERE  IS  ONE  GOD  AND  ONE  MEDIATOR  BETWEEN  GOD  AND  MEN  ---THE  MAN  JESUS  CHRIST--- 

 

MATTHEW 23:8  BUT  BE  YOU  NOT  CALLED  RABBI  ---FOR  ONE  IS  YOUR  MASTER  EVEN  CHRIST--- and all you are brethren 

 

MATTHEW 23:10  NEITHER  BE  YOU  CALLED  MASTERS  FOR--ONE--IS  YOUR  MASTER  --EVEN  CHRIST--

 

                                      *******1 CORINTHIANS 11:1  BE  YOU  FOLLOWERS  OF  ME  EVEN  AS  I  ALSO  AM  OF  CHRIST*******

 

1 CORINTHIANS 2:16  FOR  --WHO--  HATH  KNOWN  THE  MIND  OF  THE  LORD  THAT  HE  MAY  INSTRUCT  HIM  BUT  WE  HAVE  ---THE  MIND  OF  CHRIST---

PHILIPPIANS 1:27  only let your conversation be as it becometh -- THE  GOSPEL  OF  CHRIST -- that whether I come and see you or else be absent I may hear of your affairs that you stand fast ---IN  ONE  SPIRIT  AND  WITH  ONE  MIND---striving together for ---THE  FAITH  OF  THE  GOSPEL---

EPHESIANS 4:4  there is one body ---AND  ONE  SPIRIT--- even as you are called in one hope of your calling 

1 THESSALONIANS 2:12  that you would walk worthy of  GOD  who hath called you unto  HIS  KINGDOM  and glory

PHILIPPIANS 2:2  FULFIL  YOU  MY  JOY  THAT  YOU  BE  LIKE  MINDED  HAVING  THE  SAME  LOVE  BEING  OF  ONE  ACCORD  --OF  ONE  MIND--

 

ROMANS 15:6  THAT  YOU  MAY  WITH  ONE  MIND  AND ---ONE  MOUTH  GLORIFY  GOD--- EVEN  THE  FATHER  OF  OUR  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

1 CORINTHIANS 1:10  now I beseech you brethren ---BY  THE  NAME  OF  OUR  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST--- that you all --SPEAK  THE  SAME  THING-- and that there be no divisions among you but that you be --PERFECTLY  JOINED  TOGETHER  IN  THE  SAME  MIND--and the same judgement 

PROVERBS 8:20  I  LEAD  IN  THE  WAY  OF  RIGHTEOUSNESS  IN  THE  MIDST  OF  THE  PATHS  OF  JUDGEMENT 

 

JAMES 3:16  FOR  WHERE  ENVYING  AND  STRIFE  IS  THERE  IS  CONFUSION  AND  EVERY  EVIL  WORK  --3:17-- BUT  THE  WISDOM  THAT  IS  FROM  ABOVE  IS  FIRST PURE  THEN  PEACEABLE  GENTLE  AND  EASY  TO  BE  INTREATED  FULL  OF  MERCY  AND  GOOD  FRUITS  WITHOUT  PARTIALITY  ---AND  WITHOUT  HYPOCRISY---

 

                                           *******1 CORINTHIANS 6:17  BUT  HE  THAT  IS  JOINED  UNTO  THE  LORD  IS  ONE  SPIRIT******* 

JOHN 6:63  IT  IS  THE  SPIRIT  THAT  QUICKENETH  THE  FLESH  PROFITETH  NOTHING  THE  WORDS  THAT  I  SPEAK  UNTO  YOU  THEY  ARE  SPIRIT  AND  THEY  ARE  LIFE

1 CORINTHIANS 15:45  AND  SO  IT  IS  WRITTEN  THE  FIRST  MAN  ADAM  WAS  MADE  A  LIVING  SOUL  THE  LAST  ADAM  WAS  MADE  A  QUICKENING  SPIRIT   

--15:47--  THE  FIRST  MAN  IS  OF  THE  EARTH  EARTHY  THE  SECOND  MAN  IS ---THE  LORD  FROM  HEAVEN---

ROMANS 8:13  FOR  IF  YOU  LIVE  AFTER  THE  FLESH  ---YOU  SHALL  DIE--- BUT  IF--- YOU  THROUGH  THE  SPIRIT  DO  MORTIFY  THE  DEEDS  OF  THE  BODY  YOU  SHALL  LIVE

1 JOHN 2:29  IF  YOU  KNOW  THAT  HE  IS  RIGHTEOUS  YOU  KNOW  THAT  EVERYONE  THAT --DOETH  RIGHTEOUSNESS  IS  BORN  OF  HIM--

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  AND  OUR  FATHER 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read to here

[Daniel Marsh]

On 3/12/2020 at 11:43 AM, Justin Adams said:

Sadly we are poorly taught so we have to search out stuff and read lots of scholarship that is sound. Very few know their scriptures so can be easy prey. Make sure that your understanding is not stripped of the supernatural and does not follow people like Augustine etc..

Take the time to listen to Dr. Heiser as he lectures at Knox. You will get a very good grounding here.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MXOOIEagxg (put https:) in the front of the URL.

 

"4. It remains, therefore, for us, so far as my capacity to apprehend it goes, to understand Jesus as having promised that He would cause His disciples, from being carnal and natural, to become spiritual, although not yet such as we shall be, when a spiritual body shall also be ours; but such as was he who said, We speak wisdom among them that are perfect; 1 Corinthians 2:6 and, I could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal; 1 Corinthians 3:1 and, We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man perceives not the things of the Spirit of God. And thus the natural man, perceiving not the things of the Spirit of God, hears in such a way whatever is told him of the nature of God, that he can conceive of nothing else but some bodily form, however spacious or immense, however lustrous and magnificent, yet still a body: and therefore he holds as proverbs all that is said of the incorporeal and immutable substance of wisdom; not that he accounts them as proverbs, but that his thoughts follow the same direction as those who habitually listen to proverbs without understanding them. But when the spiritual man begins to discern all things, and he himself is discerned by no man, he perceives, even though in this life it still be through a glass and in part, not by any bodily sense, and not by any imaginative conception which catches at or devises the likenesses of all sorts of bodies, but by the clearest understanding of the mind, that God is not material, but spiritual: in such a way does the Son show us openly of the Father, that He, who thus shows, is also Himself seen to be of the same substance. And then it is that those who ask, ask in His name; for in the sound of that name they understand nothing else than what the reality is that is called by that name, and harbor not, in vanity or infirmity of mind, the fiction of the Father being in one place, and the Son in another, standing before the Father and making request in our behalf, with the material substances of both occupying each its own place, and the Word pleading verbally for us with Him whose Word He is, while a definite space interposes between the mouth of the speaker and the ears of the hearer; and other such absurdities which those who are natural, and at the same time carnal, fabricate for themselves in their hearts. For any such thing, suggested by the experience of bodily habits, as occurs to spiritual men when thinking of God, they deny and reject, and drive away, like troublesome insects, from the eyes of their mind; and resign themselves to the purity of that light by whose testimony and judgment they prove these bodily images that thrust themselves on their inward vision to be altogether false. These are able to a certain extent to think of our Lord Jesus Christ, in respect of His manhood, as addressing the Father on our behalf; but in respect to His Godhead, as hearing [and answering] us along with the Father. And this I am of opinion that He indicated, when He said, And I say not that I will pray the Father for you. But the intuitive perception of this, how it is that the Son asks not the Father, but that Father and Son alike listen to those who ask, is a height that can be reached only by the spiritual eye of the mind."

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701102.htm

 

"1. I have learned, not only by your letter, but also by the statements of the person who brought it to me, that you earnestly solicit a letter from me, believing that you may derive from it very great consolation. What you may gain from my letter it is for yourself to judge; I at least felt that I should neither refuse nor delay compliance with your request. May your own faith and hope comfort you, and that love which is shed abroad in the hearts of the pious by the Holy Ghost, Romans 5:5 whereof we have now a portion as an earnest of the whole, in order that we may learn to desire its consummate fullness. For you ought not to consider yourself desolate while you have Christ dwelling in your heart by faith; nor ought you to sorrow as those heathens who have no hope, seeing that in regard to those friends, who are not lost, but only called earlier than ourselves to the country whither we shall follow them, we have hope, resting on a most sure promise, that from this life we shall pass into that other life, in which they shall be to us more beloved as they shall be better known, and in which our pleasure in loving them shall not be alloyed by any fear of separation."

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102092.htm

[Daniel Marsh]

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3402.htm

 

[HAZARD]

"

Scott: First, let me assure you that we are Christians. My belief in Jesus Christ has brought me to your door this morning. After all, he is the One who commands his followers to preach. But may I ask, just what do you mean by “holy ghost”?"

 

Jesus actually said, "Go not from house to house,"  . . . annoying people unless invited.

Luke 10:7, And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. GO not from house to house. 

[Daniel Marsh]

"GO not from house to house. "

 

I never noticed that before, that's new to me. 

[Daniel Marsh]

The argument I am trying to develop in this thread is simple. 

Christians in the Bible are to be indelt with the Holy Spirit.

As Historical Christians we are indelt with the Holy Spirit.

Are Jehovah's Witnesses by their own word indelt with the Holy Spirit?

If not, someone is teaching them about "Another Holy Spirit"  or about another "Spirit of Christ".

This should be done by comparing their Bible with ours. 

[Daniel Marsh]

The posting of their material was to show their view of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

 

Note in their bible, they put Holy Spirit in lower case.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

1 Cor. vi. 19  "19. What! Do YOU not know that the body of YOU people is [the] temple of the holy spirit within YOU, which YOU have from God? Also, YOU do not belong to yourselves,"

above is from their bible, how do they understand the text to mean?