Coronavirus/Possible Depression=Prophecy?

[Steve_S]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Some other scriptural reasons I suspect the Rapture is at the door; in addition too, the 'convergence' of everything prophetic, if you care to hear them? A slow careful study of 1 Thessalonians 5: 1-11, gives us much information. There's no doubt the 'day of the Lord' is the Rapture. Christians watching will not be taken by surprise as "they" will, we will know the season and recognize the signs and times we're living.

I'd have to disagree with this. This is Paul writing to the Thessalonian church:

1Th 5:1  But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 
1Th 5:2  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

This is Peter writing (probably) a letter to the church writ large or perhaps the ones specifically mentioned in 1 Peter (though this would only be speculation):

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 
2Pe 3:10(a)  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night,

I direct your attention to the first portion of 2 Peter 3:10  Peter uses virtually the same phraseology here. This is not surprising, because the bible is all God breathed.

Now, the second portion:

2Pe 3:10(b) in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 

The Day of the Lord, particularly the Day of the Lord in the same context that Paul references it, coming as a thief in the night, is associated with the above events. This does not at all seem like the rapture.

One can make an argument that the Day of the LORD is the rapture, but I do not believe that there is "no doubt," so to speak.

[Steve_S]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dennis1209 said:

The fig tree [Israel] became a nation in 'one day' by UN resolution; and was very tender then, and rapidly put on leaves. Therefore, we know summer [the Rapture] is very close. "This generation shall not pass", I believe means the generation that witnesses Israel become a nation once again after the 2,000 year diaspora. So, how long is a biblical generation, 30 - 40 - 50 - 100 - 120 years, or the last person alive in that generation???

It may mean this, but nationhood, biblically speaking, does not always involve a national government, etc.:

Gen 46:3  So He said, "I am God, the God of your father; do not fear to go down to Egypt, for I will make of you a great nation there.

Israel was made a great nation while in Egypt. They were brought into the land already, after achieving nationhood. By this standard, Israel has been a scattered nation of people.

In the parable of the fig tree:

Mar 13:28  "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 
Mar 13:29  So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 
Mar 13:30  Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 
Mar 13:31  Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 

I'm very reticent to build direct doctrine off of parables such as this (unless their meaning is explicitly explained in the text).

It is fairly obvious what Jesus means here, but He is nonspecific. Nothing in the bible is there by accident and nothing is left out by accident. This is so general that it could mean literally from the first return from the diaspora, which started, functionally, in the late 19th and early 20th century. It could also mean what you believe, from the mid 50s, when Israel formed as a nation.

I'm not convinced of either of those scenarios though, but I think the mid 50s date that you hold to probably has some merit. The main reason I say this is because the Jews do not control the biblical borders of canaan, nor have they established a direct presence on the temple mount. If you pushed me to pick a date in the past, I would probably say 1967 when they gained total control of Jerusalem and physical possession of the temple mount as more likely than the mid to late 50s. The nation from that point forward, as far as it's borders, much more resembles what is described of Israel in the scriptures (the part west of the Jordan at least).

All of this is not to say that you're wrong, just that I don't believe it's definitive, nor that we can be definitive on it. We are called to be ever watchful to be sure and I certainly think we should be. I think it's going to be progressively more obvious, however. The convergence of events seems to be happening to a degree or another, but Jesus specifically described the birth pangs:

Mat 24:4-14  And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.  (5)  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.  (6)  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  (7)  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.  (8)  All these are the beginning of sorrows.  (9)  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.  (10)  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.  (11)  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  (12)  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.  (13)  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  (14)  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
 

The only one of these happening on a large scale right now is the coronavirus, which would be a pestilence. It is definitely bad. Christians are persecuted in many places as well, but not where we live in the west. There are wars and rumors of wars, but we are in a valley as opposed to at a peak as far as that goes (compared to the last century). Earthquake activity does not seem to be abnormally high or particularly abnormally violent. Famines are no different than they have been in the past 50 years (probably better in most respects, though that may change depending on how this virus goes).

I could see a us tipping into a lot of these things easily, but that is basically always the case. There is almost always one or two of these things happening simultaneously, but this paints a picture of progressive chaos and lawlessness, combined with war, natural disasters, pestilence and persecution. This is currently not the case. I could certainly be wrong in my interpretation and in what I am seeing and I admit that.

[nobleseed]

i actually posted that during the time of drought was the third horseman and that plague was coming after that, if this is the work of the horseman, then after this will be a great time of martyrdom, and after that a great meteor storm.  and as for antichrist he is only mentioned after the seals and trumpets and the son of man will also come also, he who overcomes who has an name known only by him who has it. 

[Dennis1209]

10 hours ago, Steve_S said:

The only one of these happening on a large scale right now is the coronavirus, which would be a pestilence. It is definitely bad. Christians are persecuted in many places as well, but not where we live in the west. There are wars and rumors of wars, but we are in a valley as opposed to at a peak as far as that goes (compared to the last century). Earthquake activity does not seem to be abnormally high or particularly abnormally violent. Famines are no different than they have been in the past 50 years (probably better in most respects, though that may change depending on how this virus goes).

Hi Steve,

That's why scholars had to come up with a couple of fifty cents words [exegesis & hermeneutics], to describe our personal interpretation of scripture; it sounded better than "arguing ".  

The extreme increase of the prophetic plagues, Christian martyrdom, earthquakes and disasters in our generation is incontrovertible, even by secular recording and reporting. I've only linked two of hundreds as support for these dramatic increases we're witnessing. All the media reporting is calling things; unprecedented, historic, never seen before, etc.

Earthquake activity and severity is at a all time historic high [see USGS link below]. Locust swarms and famine this century is at a all time high [notice the current one taking place, Israel is protected]. Far more severe hurricanes, tornado's, tsunamis, droughts, mud slides, etc. Even the Continent of Australia about perished in fire because of drought. Yes, all is significantly higher than historic norms [a convergence] in frequency and intensity if you look at the historic record.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24864587

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/why-are-we-having-so-many-earthquakes-has-naturally-occurring-earthquake-activity-been?qt-news_science_products=0#qt-news_science_products

 

[Steve_S]

11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Earthquake activity and severity is at a all time historic high [see USGS link below]. Locust swarms and famine this century is at a all time high [notice the current one taking place, Israel is protected]. Far more severe hurricanes, tornado's, tsunamis, droughts, mud slides, etc. Even the Continent of Australia about perished in fire because of drought. Yes, all is significantly higher than historic norms [a convergence] in frequency and intensity if you look at the historic record.

The dust bowl in the united states as far as drought is one of the worst droughts in recorded history on earth notwithstanding those mentioned in the scriptures (note I said recorded history, there have been very likely many bad unrecorded droughts) and it was pre-Israel. It was also concurrent with economic collapse and massive, worldwide famine. Our economic situation has not approached great depression levels, certainly not world wide, since the great depression. This is an objective, observable fact.

This is from the article that you posted above on earthquakes:

The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes.

Also, from your article:

In the past 44 years, from 1973 through 2017, our records show that we have exceeded the long-term average number of major earthquakes only 11 times, in 1976, 1990, 1995, 1999, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2016.

 

In other years the total was well below the 16 per year expected based on the long-term average:  1989 only saw 6, while 1988 saw only 7 major earthquakes.

This article basically proves my point. There are more recorded earthquakes, but there are more seismographs.

As far as violent earthquakes, the averages, over time, bear out the same as they did before. According to your article, the biggest year over that 44 year period had 24 with a magnitude of 7 or greater, the smallest year had 6. That's the range... 8 < average < 10. There's no correlation here with stronger earthquakes.

Again, I don't disagree with you that there is a convergence, I just think it is not as blatant. I expect when it gets blatant it will be undeniable. We will not have to post articles from the USGS because instead of there being a few more than normal, there will be 50 more than normal with many of them wrecking major cities, etc. We are not seeing that right now.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Steve_S

[luigi]

On 3/17/2020 at 2:03 PM, Mystic_Pizza said:

I'm curious, what does everyone think about this whole situation with the coronavirus, and the effect it is having not only worldwide, but also the fallout and repercussions for the economy and ...well, pretty much everything in our modern world?

 

Thoughts?

As events associated with the Day of the Lord have been increasing throughout the world for the last several years, Covid-19 is just one of the pestilences in a series to come.

Edited March 23, 2020 by luigi

[Leonardo Von]

On 3/17/2020 at 3:03 PM, Mystic_Pizza said:

I'm curious, what does everyone think about this whole situation with the coronavirus, and the effect it is having not only worldwide, but also the fallout and repercussions for the economy and ...well, pretty much everything in our modern world?

One of the reasons for which the Global Elite spread this virus was to break the economy of all countries (make them sink in debts) so that every country can give up their sovereign and give in to the New World Order.