Atheism And Ceasing To Exist Oblivion.

[enoob57]

On 4/14/2020 at 10:31 AM, Butch5 said:

I don't think they will exist.

I don’t entertain thoughts not formed from God’s Word ... what you think and what others think is moot when God’s Word says they will...
Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
It all ways out what you believe is the ultimate authority...

[JAG**]

4 hours ago, Butch5 said:

Even if 97% believe that it doesn't make it true. The truth of a claim isn't

based on how many believe it. I would also disagree that a thing's

ultimate end determines it's value. 

Regarding the 97%, you have to convince other people to your 

point of view, unless you are satisfied with re-confirming to yourself

 what you already believe.  This means you have to convince other

people that you DO have ULTIMATE  worth and value even though, 

on Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheism you have the same identical

ultimate  end as does a cockroach, house plant, and smashed critter

road kill.

Questions for you: Do you think you can convince other people to come

to agree with you?

A house plant died in the year 2000. Is that particular house plant now valuable?

A critter crossing the road was smashed flat and died in the year 2000. Is that

particular critter now valuable?

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheism what is the ULTIMATE difference 

between a  dead human and a dead house plant and a dead cockroach,

and a dead smashed critter road kill?

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheism all  4  cease to exist and become

this 0. 000

How can 0.000 be valuable?

______________

 

I do believe that John 3:16 offers a much better future than does 

Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheism. "For God so loved the world 

that He gave His one and only Son that whoever believes on Him,

shall not perish but have eternal life."

Don't you agree?

_______________

 

Butch, thanks for your comments and for your responses and

for your interest in my Opening Post. I look forward to reading

any responses you post.

__________________

 

Meanwhile . . .

May the Lord bless you.

May the Lord keep you.

May the Lord make His face shine upon you.

May the Lord be gracious unto you.

May the Lord turn His face towards you.

May the Lord always protect you. 

May the Lord give you peace.

{Based on Numbers 6:24-27}

 

 

 

`

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Butch5]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I don’t entertain thoughts not formed from God’s Word ... what you think and what others think is moot when God’s Word says they will...
Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
It all ways out what you believe is the ultimate authority...

 I agree it doesn't matter what people think. However, God's word says they will cease to exist. God said the soul that sins shall die. This passage you posted doesn't say dead people are alive. The ones in this passage are alive. They are the ones worshiping the beast. Also, the saints are there so this isn't some place where dead people are suffering.

 

 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 (Rev. 14:10-12 KJV)

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I don’t entertain thoughts not formed from God’s Word ... what you think and what others think is moot when God’s Word says they will...
Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
It all ways out what you believe is the ultimate authority...

Notice ‘their torment’ -> ‘for ever’... Theirs  just no way to get around the eternal suffering of hell but to pervert the words God has given us...

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Butch5 said:

 I agree it doesn't matter what people think. However, God's word says they will cease to exist. God said the soul that sins shall die. This passage you posted doesn't say dead people are alive. The ones in this passage are alive. They are the ones worshiping the beast. Also, the saints are there so this isn't some place where dead people are suffering.

 

 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 (Rev. 14:10-12 KJV)

There is only one eternal place of damnation ‘lake of fire’
Revelation 20:10-15 (KJV)
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

[enoob57]

7 hours ago, Butch5 said:

Even if 97% believe that it doesn't make it true. The truth of a claim isn't based on how many believe it. I would also disagree that a thing's ultimate end determines it's value. 

So a thing set aside by you to burn has value?

[Butch5]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

There is only one eternal place of damnation ‘lake of fire’
Revelation 20:10-15 (KJV)
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

The passage doesn't say forever and ever. It's wrongly translated. The correct translation is ages of ages. The Greek word aion that they translated forever doesn't mean forever. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. If Jesus said it ends then I 'm pretty sure it ends.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Butch5
spelling

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Butch5 said:

The passage does say forever and ever. It's wrongly translated. The correct translation is ages of ages. The Greek word aion that they translated forever doesn't mean forever. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. If Jesus said it ends then I 'm pretty sure it ends.

Like I said pervert the word to make it fit your doctrine is not uncommon among those who want to think a different way other than the clear teaching of God’s Word...  all my children can read this and come to the same conclusion eternal suffering...  there is no end in God so His wrath is without end and the object of His wrath is without end >or< you have God’s wrath with no object for His wrath to be or a purposeless wrath and there is nothing within the plan of God without purpose...

[enoob57]

18 minutes ago, Butch5 said:

The passage does say forever and ever. It's wrongly translated. The correct translation is ages of ages. The Greek word aion that they translated forever doesn't mean forever. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. If Jesus said it ends then I 'm pretty sure it ends.

 aiṓn (165), age, time: eis tón aiṓna, forever; eis toús aiṓnas, unto the ages; eis toús aiṓnas tṓn aiṓnōn, unto the ages of the ages; eis tón aiṓna toú aiṓnos, unto the age of the age or forever and ever; toú aiṓnos tṓn aiṓnōn, of the age of the ages, forever and ever; eis pántas (3956) toús aiṓnas, unto all the ages; eis hēméran (2250) aiṓnos, unto a day of an age, forever.
 

[enoob57]

I would be quite concerned about my supposed language abilities when every translation all with extensive language backgrounds translate out the same way 
 

KJV

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and

shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

NASB

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are

also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

NKJV

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And

they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

DNT

And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false

prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.

ESV

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,

and they will be tornmented day and night forever and ever.

WEB

The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They

will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

NLT

Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false

prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.