IN THE MIDST OF COVID19, WHAT'S NEXT IN BIBLE PROPHECY?

[luigi]

31 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I have seen several very thorough studies of Daniel 11 matching with historic events. When we put together Daniel 8 and Daniel 11, there is no doubt that some verses in Dan. 11 are in reference to Antiochus Epiphanes. Here is one example from the Amplified bible:

²⁸ Then he (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) will return to his land with great treasure (plunder); and his heart will be set against the holy covenant, and he will take action and return to his own land (Syria).

You can try and use human reasoning here and make what 99% of the Christian world considers history into something future, but when the future events of Revelation play out, your theories will be found in error. 

 

 

Iamlamad, By claiming that some events in Daniel 11 correlate with those in Daniel 8 regarding a 2nd century BC event, you in effect deny the Word in Daniel 12:4 & 9 which state all the events in chapters 11 and 12 occurring during the end times. Can you use deductive reasoning with Daniel 12:4 and explain how in your perspective with the events in Daniel 11 representing a 2nd century BC event, people were running to and fro with their knowledge increasing? Can you explain to me in Daniel 12:9 where the information sealed until the time of the end, was unsealed in the 2nd century BC, with everyone back then understanding all that is described therein? This information is only today beginning to be understood for what they mean with our knowledge of these things increasing.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Edited May 15, 2020 by luigi

[luigi]

19 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

YOu would do well to study these texts in the Amplified text:

Dan. 10: ²⁰ Then he said, “Do you understand [fully] why I came to you? Now I shall return to fight against the [hostile] ^[f]prince of Persia; and when I have gone, behold, the ^[g]prince of Greece is about to come. ²¹ But I (Gabriel) will tell you what is inscribed in the ^[h]writing of truth. There is no one who stands firmly with me and strengthens himself against these [hostile spirit forces] except Michael, your prince [the guardian of your nation].

 Notice how these translators put it? Daniel is talking about "principalities and powers:" demonic forces over nations. And again, this is HISTORY, not future.  However, we can be very sure, Iran has spirits in high places today: wicked spiritual forces determined to keep the gospel of our Lord OUT. 

 

Notice how the Lord in the Word describes the Prince of Persia as an individual who heads Persia along with its other individual kings.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

 

[luigi]

33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

I will agree with you then that I too use human reasoning to some extent. Truthfully, when the Holy Spirit teaches with a "down load:" a "knowing" without words, it may seem like someone reasoned it out. But it was the Holy Spirit teaching. For example, after Jesus spoke words  - that I could find the exact midpoint clearly marked - He ended that teaching session with: "in fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'"  At that moment in time, I got a down load - a "knowing" without words: the REASON I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked" is because God used the same "marker" for the start of the week, the midpoint of the week and the end of the week. That was revelation knowledge that came without words.  So once I found that "exact midpoint" marked with a "7," the 7th trumpet, I then knew I had found the entire week "clearly marked:" the 7th seal and the 7th vial.  This knowledge did not come from human reasoning. 

 

The Lord does provide us with true illumination through his angels and His Holy Spirit. But along with true illumination from the Lord, there is also the devil and his angels, who masquerading as true illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14), instead deceive all of mankind (Revelation 12:9). This means myself, you, and everyone who having mistaken concepts of the truth. I thereby use the Word to ascertain the illumination I am given, and not some individuals comments that contradict the Word.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, luigi said:

The Lord does provide us with true illumination through his angels and His Holy Spirit. But along with true illumination from the Lord, there is also the devil and his angels, who masquerading as true illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14), instead deceive all of mankind (Revelation 12:9). This means myself, you, and everyone who having mistaken concepts of the truth. I thereby use the Word to ascertain the illumination I am given, and not some individuals comments that contradict the Word.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I will agree, occasionally angels bring revelation knowledge: it happened with Daniel. But today it is FAR more likely that the Holy Spirit will bring revelation. The big problem here is that most believers skip over Acts 1 & 2 so do without the Holy Spirit anointing. 

Then, both God the Father and Jesus can also speak to a believer.  The truth is, every believer should not the voice of Our Lord. 

Again I will agree that if God speaks, it certainly will agree with the written word. However, it may well not agree with people's erroneous theories of the Word. 

And, yes, many people listen to a "voice" but it is only the voice of their spirit inside. They only imagine it is the Holy Spirit. 

For those that pray in tongues, whenever God speaks, it comes from that same location in the mind. It is the connection between our soul and our spirit. God always talks to the human spirit. For those that pray in tongues, they need only to listen in that same place. Demons cannot speak inside our spirit the way God can and does. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Notice how the Lord in the Word describes the Prince of Persia as an individual who heads Persia along with its other individual kings.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

 

Notice how Jesus called the devil "prince:  

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

Daniel is speaking of the spiritual powers over Persia and Greece. 

 

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Iamlamad, By claiming that some events in Daniel 11 correlate with those in Daniel 8 regarding a 2nd century BC event, you in effect deny the Word in Daniel 12:4 & 9 which state all the events in chapters 11 and 12 occurring during the end times. Can you use deductive reasoning with Daniel 12:4 and explain how in your perspective with the events in Daniel 11 representing a 2nd century BC event, people were running to and fro with their knowledge increasing? Can you explain to me in Daniel 12:9 where the information sealed until the time of the end, was unsealed in the 2nd century BC, with everyone back then understanding all that is described therein? This information is only today beginning to be understood for what they mean with our knowledge of these things increasing.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Sorry, but that is not what those verses say: it is the entire book that gets sealed. I take that to mean ALL the book of Daniel. Perhaps that means only the parts of Daniel that were future to him then. Everyone has understand the lion's den story. 

What you are missing: part of Daniel was future to him then, but is history to us now. Rev. 12 does not contradict that.  Try studying those verses in the commentaries. 

Can you use deductive reasoning with Daniel 12:4 and explain how in your perspective with the events in Daniel 11 representing a 2nd century BC event, people were running to and fro with their knowledge increasing?  People running to a fro (and flying to and fro) is only a statement of fact and tied to nothing but end times. It is certainly TRUE!   It does not in any way relate to Antiochus. 

Can you explain to me in Daniel 12:9 where the information sealed until the time of the end, was unsealed in the 2nd century BC, with everyone back then understanding all that is described therein?  When those events happened with Antiochus, then everyone DID understand Daniel 8: no question about that. But then, that was the end of THEIR time: the 4 generals. 

You will have to take these questions up with God when we arrive. 

[luigi]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I will agree, occasionally angels bring revelation knowledge: it happened with Daniel. But today it is FAR more likely that the Holy Spirit will bring revelation. The big problem here is the most believers skip over Acts 1 & 2 so do without the Holy Spirit anointing. 

Then, both God the Father and Jesus can also speak to a believer.  The truth is, every believer should not the voice of Our Lord. 

Again I will agree that if God speaks, it certainly will agree with the written word. However, it may well not agree with people's erroneous theories of the Word. 

And, yes, many people listen to a "voice" but it is only the voice of their spirit inside. They only imagine it is the Holy Spirit. 

For those that pray in tongues, whenever God speaks, it comes from that same location in the mind. It is the connection between our soul and our spirit. God always talks to the human spirit. For those that pray in tongues, they need only to listen in that same place. Demons cannot speak inside our spirit the way God can and does. 

OK, At least we agree on a couple of points in regards to God's Word superseding mans conjectures.

[luigi]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Notice how Jesus called the devil "prince:  

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

Daniel is speaking of the spiritual powers over Persia and Greece. 

 

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So according to your perspective, the Lord goes to battle with a non corporal spiritual prince in Persia? I can agree that the Lord fights with spiritual darkness throughout the world, but to specifically go to fight spiritual darkness in Persia, indicates the darkness being within the rulers in Persia.

[luigi]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but that is not what those verses say: it is the entire book that gets sealed. I take that to mean ALL the book of Daniel. Perhaps that means only the parts of Daniel that were future to him then. Everyone has understand the lion's den story. 

What you are missing: part of Daniel was future to him then, but is history to us now. Rev. 12 does not contradict that.  Try studying those verses in the commentaries. 

Can you use deductive reasoning with Daniel 12:4 and explain how in your perspective with the events in Daniel 11 representing a 2nd century BC event, people were running to and fro with their knowledge increasing?  People running to a fro (and flying to and fro) is only a statement of fact and tied to nothing but end times. It is certainly TRUE!   It does not in any way relate to Antiochus. 

Can you explain to me in Daniel 12:9 where the information sealed until the time of the end, was unsealed in the 2nd century BC, with everyone back then understanding all that is described therein?  When those events happened with Antiochus, then everyone DID understand Daniel 8: no question about that. But then, that was the end of THEIR time: the 4 generals. 

You will have to take these questions up with God when we arrive. 

Daniel was perplexed as to the vision shown him in chapters 11 and 12, and when he inquired of the angel as to its meaning (Daniel 12:8), he was told to go on his way as the matter did not concern him, and was for the end times (Daniel 12:9), at which time he would then rise along with the other saints (Daniel 12:13). Put one and one together already, Daniel did not rise in the 2nd century BC, and has yet to rise. I hope you can understand this are not among the wicked who cannot understand, as the Word states is their outcome (Daniel 12:10).

 Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Daniel 12:10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Edited May 15, 2020 by luigi

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Daniel was perplexed as to the vision shown him in chapters 11 and 12, and when he inquired of the angel as to its meaning (Daniel 12:8), he was told to go on his way as the matter did not concern him, and was for the end times (Daniel 12:9), at which time he would then rise along with the other saints (Daniel 12:13). Put one and one together already, Daniel did not rise in the 2nd century BC, and has yet to rise. I hope you can understand this are not among the wicked who cannot understand, as the Word states is their outcome (Daniel 12:10).

 Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Daniel 12:10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

You said yourself that 12:1 is the days of great tribulation. Are those days still future? Is the resurrection still future? 

You know these things are future.  Just as God told John that he would write things about the future (which he certainly did) he also included things in the past. Why disagree over something so minor?  Daniel 2 was for the past, but also seems to point to the future. Daniel 7 seems to point to the image of Daniel 2, but again is for the future.  Daniel 11 started with the days of Alexanders's four generals, but ended up future to us. 

In other words, there is still many things in Daniel still in our future.

 

I wonder, do you put so much weight in "shortly come to pass" in Rev. 1 that you think all or most of Revelation was past?  

Edited May 15, 2020 by iamlamad