Pre-Wrath Rapture

[Shilohsfoal]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:02 AM, Spock said:

So far imo this post is the best because it is a game changer. You make perfect sense in saying ....how could the last trump cited by Paul be the same as the 7th trumpet of Revelation when Revelation was written some 40 years later?  How could Paul’s Corinthian audience have known this?  They couldn’t. COMMON SENSE FELLOWS....please don’t let your agenda and biases remove your common sense. 
 

Therefore, by the power vested in me I proclaim......from here on going forward No one shall ever associate Paul’s last Trump with the 7th trumpet of Revelation. So let it be written, so let it be done! 
 

Ambassador Spock
 

 

The holy spirit seems to have brought to my attention information you may have overlooked. 

It so happens that God had informed his prophets of what would take place during the 7th trump long before that infomation was shared with John. 

This would be how Paul knew about the last trump in revelation before revelation was written. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/10-7.htm

 

Oh, well. Looks like your common sense just got tossed out the window. 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The holy spirit seems to have brought to my attention information you may have overlooked. 

It so happens that God had informed his prophets of what would take place during the 7th trump long before that infomation was shared with John. 

This would be how Paul knew about the last trump in revelation before revelation was written. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/10-7.htm

 

Oh, well. Looks like your common sense just got tossed out the window. 

 

This may or may not help explain that verse....

b. The mystery of God would be finished: What mystery? One important aspect of this mystery is that it has been declared to His servants the prophets.

i. In Biblical vocabulary, a mystery isn’t something no one knows. A mystery is something no one could know unless it was revealed to him. If you could know it by intuition or personal investigation, it isn’t a mystery, because mysteries must be revealed. Therefore, something can be known and still be a mystery in the Biblical sense.

c. The mystery of God: It’s hard to say what this precise mystery of God is, because the phrase – or its equivalent – is used for a many different aspects of God’s plan.

· The ultimate conversion of the Jewish people is called a mystery (Romans 11:25)

· God’s purpose for the church is called a mystery (Ephesians 3:3-11)

· The bringing in of the fullness of the Gentiles is called a mystery (Romans 11:25)

· The living presence of Jesus in the believer is called the mystery of God (Colossians 1:27-2:3)

· The gospel itself is called the mystery of Christ (Colossians 4:3)

d. The mystery of God: In this context, the mystery of God probably refers to the unfolding of His resolution of all things, the finishing of His plan of the ages.

i. “The mystery of God which is declared as subject to fulfillment is unfolded therefore in the Old Testament in the many passages which speak of the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth.” (Walvoord)

ii. Possibly, the mystery also regards the great question “Why does God allow Satan and man to rebel and go their own way?” The idea may be that this question, this unanswered mystery, is coming to an end under rule of Jesus. God is beginning the end, the resolution of all things, the gathering together (resolution, summing up) of all things in one in Jesus (Ephesians 1:10).

iii. God freely acknowledges that life today is full of mysteries; but it will not always be so. A day will come when all questions of this age will be answered.

[Shilohsfoal]

11 minutes ago, Spock said:

This may or may not help explain that verse....

b. The mystery of God would be finished: What mystery? One important aspect of this mystery is that it has been declared to His servants the prophets.

i. In Biblical vocabulary, a mystery isn’t something no one knows. A mystery is something no one could know unless it was revealed to him. If you could know it by intuition or personal investigation, it isn’t a mystery, because mysteries must be revealed. Therefore, something can be known and still be a mystery in the Biblical sense.

c. The mystery of God: It’s hard to say what this precise mystery of God is, because the phrase – or its equivalent – is used for a many different aspects of God’s plan.

· The ultimate conversion of the Jewish people is called a mystery (Romans 11:25)

· God’s purpose for the church is called a mystery (Ephesians 3:3-11)

· The bringing in of the fullness of the Gentiles is called a mystery (Romans 11:25)

· The living presence of Jesus in the believer is called the mystery of God (Colossians 1:27-2:3)

· The gospel itself is called the mystery of Christ (Colossians 4:3)

d. The mystery of God: In this context, the mystery of God probably refers to the unfolding of His resolution of all things, the finishing of His plan of the ages.

i. “The mystery of God which is declared as subject to fulfillment is unfolded therefore in the Old Testament in the many passages which speak of the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth.” (Walvoord)

ii. Possibly, the mystery also regards the great question “Why does God allow Satan and man to rebel and go their own way?” The idea may be that this question, this unanswered mystery, is coming to an end under rule of Jesus. God is beginning the end, the resolution of all things, the gathering together (resolution, summing up) of all things in one in Jesus (Ephesians 1:10).

iii. God freely acknowledges that life today is full of mysteries; but it will not always be so. A day will come when all questions of this age will be answered.

God says he declared it to his prophets. He obviously made that mystery know to Paul  as well because Paul spoke of the mystery which would take place at the sound of the last trump. 

You do believe the last trump would take place last don't you? 

Or do you believe the last trump would take place before the first? 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/1_corinthians/15-51.htm

Or do you believe Paul flat out lied and there is no last trump? 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[Moby]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:31 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Though out my studies of scripture I have come to the conclusion that we will be rapture'd at the last trumpet (7th Trumpet) spoken of in revelations.  (1Co 15:52 KJV - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.)   I dont associate the Tribulation as God's wrath.  God's wrath is what happens after the 7th Trumpet where he pours out the vials of his wrath on the those whom worshiped the beast.  Jesus said you will have tribulation in this world (meaning tribulation comes from this evil world and is not God's wrath) (Jhn 16:33 KJV - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.)  We are promised tribulation in this world, yet we are not appointed unto God's wrath.  These are two different things.  I do believe at the 7th Trumpet we will be raptured up to meet Yahshua in the clouds of heaven where we join him in the marriage supper of the Lamb, while the vials of wrath are being poured out on those whom chose to follow the beast.  Then afterward we will return with him to rule and reign on earth.

Hi Jedi! I agree with you bro and here is a good link with lots of scripture to back up your thesis of a post trib rapture:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

All the scriptures in that link fit nicely into this timeline:

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath