2021 Rapture

[Diaste]

"“Jesus says in Matthew 24:34 that this ‘born one,’ or ‘this generation will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled,’” says Beshore, 86, who holds five doctoral degrees in theology.

“He pictures Israel as a Jewish boy, born May 14, 1948, that would grow up and become an old man until He comes in glory to establish His millennial kingdom. Now, how long is this generation—this ‘born one’? The first meaning of ‘born one’ is in Psalm 90:10. If you extend that from 1948, the outside date for the millennium would be 2028. Take off seven years for the Tribulation and the outside date for the rapture would be 2021. The rapture could take place before that, but certainly by then.”" - Dr. F Kenton Beshore

There ya go. Last 13 months before harvest. 

5 theological degrees says it's true.

[Behold]

Diaste,   If Jesus does not know when it is, then F Kenton Beshore, is only guessing.

Here is how you can know.

Just wait for the global event that is going to bring in the Anti-Christ.  It'll be a global economic collapse.  He will then come on the GWS (Global World Stage) to solve that...

So, when you see Government's collapsing, because they are going broke trying to deal with a crisis, and the USA actually does go broke or there is constant worldwide  talk that is is going to happen (same thing, as perception is reality)< then you will know that the man of sin is about to come to solve this Global Economic Crisis.

When you see that happening, then the Rapture will occur first.....

Find your DATE, right there.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Behold

[missmuffet]

41 minutes ago, Behold said:

Diaste,   If Jesus does not know when it is, then F Kenton Beshore, is only guessing.

Here is how you can know.

Just wait for the global event that is going to bring in the Anti-Christ.  It'll be a global economic collapse.  He will then come on the GWS (Global World Stage) to solve that...

So, when you see Government's collapsing, because they are going broke trying to deal with a crisis, and the USA actually does go broke or there is constant worldwide  talk that is is going to happen (same thing, as perception is reality)< then you will know that the man of sin is about to come to solve this Global Economic Crisis.

When you see that happening, then the Rapture will occur first.....

Find your DATE, right there.

Jesus does know now when the rapture will occur. He has been glorified and is in heaven with the Father. We don't know and we should never date set.

Edited April 6, 2020 by missmuffet

[Omegaman 3.0]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

"“Jesus says in Matthew 24:34 that this ‘born one,’ or ‘this generation will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled,’” says Beshore, 86, who holds five doctoral degrees in theology.

“He pictures Israel as a Jewish boy, born May 14, 1948, that would grow up and become an old man until He comes in glory to establish His millennial kingdom. Now, how long is this generation—this ‘born one’? The first meaning of ‘born one’ is in Psalm 90:10. If you extend that from 1948, the outside date for the millennium would be 2028. Take off seven years for the Tribulation and the outside date for the rapture would be 2021. The rapture could take place before that, but certainly by then.”" - Dr. F Kenton Beshore

There ya go. Last 13 months before harvest. 

5 theological degrees says it's true.

First off, it does not say born one, it just genea, or generation. Generation can mean generation, like a time frame of a group of people (that is generally the understanding) but it can mean a race, or a kind of thing. I do not know of any Bible translation that does this with that specific word, but is it done in extra-biblical Koine Greek literature, so cannot be truly ruled out. Translators are not infallible.

Let's go with the time from of a group of people. I think it would be a good idea, to look at the context. First, what was immediately before this statement:

32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

I think it is correct to assume, that the He who is near, is Jesus at His return, since that is what the disciples question was about, that Jesus is answering, "What will be the sign of your coming (parousia)?

As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

As an aside, the Greek word parousia is made up of two words which basically mean "alongside" and "I am". For this reason, Bibles often translate parousia to "presence", or "arrival".

 

Quote

 

Strong's Concordance

parousia: a presence, a coming

Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: parousia
Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see'-ah)
Definition: a presence, a coming
Usage: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.

 

 

 

Quote

 

HELPS Word-studies

3952 parousía (from parōn, "be present, arrive to enter into a situation") – properly, coming, especially the arrival of the owner who alone can deal with a situation (cf. LS). 3952 (parousía) is a "technical term with reference to the visit of a king or some other official, 'a royal visit' " (Souter) – "hence, in the NT, specifically of the Advent or Parousia of Christ" (A-S).

[3952 (parousía) is "used in the east as a technical expression for the royal visit of a king, or emperor. The word means literally 'the being beside,' thus, 'the personal presence' " (K. Wuest, 3, Bypaths, 33).]

 

 

I bolded the coming of a king aspect above, as it is especially appropriate to the coming of our King. My point is here though, that His coming, is likely best understood as a coming to be with us, to be present.

Moving along then, we are looking at this as Jesus answer to the "what will be the sign", that you are about to come to be present question. By the way, I commend you for looking into Matthew 24 for this. I say this, because this is the most comprehensive passage in all of scripture about the chonological aspects of His return. The question itself, is about chronology "when", and Jesus' reply is also chronological, as evidenced by His use  of words and phrases like  "when you see", "then", "at that time", "immediately after", etc. and perhaps even the word "and". These things when you read them show the passage to not only be the most extensive on the topic in detail, but also it is giving a lot of detail in sequence, unlike say, the book of Revelation, which jumps back and forth. Also, unlike Revelation, this language is clear and not bogged down with symbolism which is confusing or easily misunderstood. For these reasons, this passage and it's parallels in Mark and Luke, are the go to passages that other passages should be understood in the light of. A good rule is use the larger, more complete, and clearer passages and understand the less clear in a manner consistent with the clearer ones, not the other way around.

Okay, now that we have the context a bit more established, and an understanding of what it is about, the coming of the Lord, and the timing of same, let's look again at the verse you made your O.P. about, verse 34:

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Now, "generation" we looked at, and for the purpose of this thread, I am agreeing that we can be talking about a time frame of a specific generation of people. Back in the 1980, Hal Lindsey laid out the case, that the rapture would be in 1988. So far, every person who has ever tried to predict a date, has failed and been proven wrong, I contend that 2021 will also fail. If and when it does, I hope you will learn a lesson and stop trying to read into scripture, things that are not there.

 Now, let's look further at that aspect of that verse. Let's assume that this generation will not pass away. Which generation? Hal Lindsey dated it from 1948? Why would he do that? In my opinion it is passed on a mere speculation. Hal thought he saw in that parable that Jesus offered, the rebirth of the nation Israel.

Hal's mistake was (if it was a mistake) was to assume that the fig tree, was a symbol of Israel. If it had said the olive tree, I might have been there with him, but even that is assuming to much what did Jesus say there?

29 “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 “So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 

Notice a few things there. It does not say that the fig tree is Israel. It does not say only the fig tree, it says all the trees. It also tell them, what they were supposed to be watching for:

"when you see these things happening"

What things? Read the chapter, or, better yet, read the Matt 24 version, it is a little more complete:

• many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.
• “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars.
• “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom
• in various places there will be famines
• and earthquakes.
• “Then they will deliver you to tribulation
•  and will kill you
• and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 
• “At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 
• “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
• “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
• “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations
• “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)

So, if all these things have happened by 2020, then look up, for your redemption is drawing near! 

Don't worry, I am almost through. Even assuming that we have the generation identified, there is still the question of how long a generation is. Hal seemed to think it was 40 years, he had his reasons. However, why not the normal length of a live, that the Bible says is 70 to 80 years?

As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, Or if due to strength, eighty years Psa 90:10

1948 plus 70 is 2018, plus 80 is 2028! Your 2021 guess, is in that range, but not limited to that one year. 

What about people who live past 100, let's say 105 years, that would be 2053!

But wait, in the Bible, years are 360 days long, not 365 days, how does that alter things? See the problems you create by trying to outguess what the Bible says, believe what is says and no more. Stop trying to impose wishes upon it's revelation, and you will do better!

I guess that will do for my short reply.

Oh, and one more thing:

Quote

5 theological degrees says it's true.

No, 5 degrees in Theology, does not say it's true. 5 degrees in theology, only says that one went to colleges as a fallible man, and came out the same way, just more educated.

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Jesus does know now when the rapture will occur. He has been glorified and is in heaven with the Father. We don't know and we should never date set.

Jesus did not know, 2000 years ago, that says nothing about him not knowing now, nor that it would not be revealed at a later time. However, I agree, date setting is a poor idea, but He did give us a lot of information and details, about the sequence of events which would proceed His coming. There was no New Testament when Jesus spoke those words, that is no longer the case., I suspect these further details are there to clarify and confirm the details He gave,for the benefit of those who will listen to Him and know that He is coming soon, when His coming is near. The whole point, as far as I can tell, is that Jesus did not want His followers to be deceived. The best way to avoid that is to give information, not to keep it secret. Not a lot different, than His first coming, where those who were paying attention, we expecting their Messiah, some knew the time was right, even some of the circumstance (born in Bethlehem, for example).

Those who choose to be informed, will find plenty of information about the events leading up to His return, and you can bet they WILL happen.

[Behold]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Jesus does know now when the rapture will occur. He has been glorified and is in heaven with the Father. We don't know and we should never date set.

Nice to hear from you.

Sister,  its a debate among theologians and believers and non, whether Jesus knows when He will come for his Bride. (Rapture)

If he comes at the end of the Tribulation for them, then he didnt know when the Rapture was going to occur, as it would be occurring at the 2nd Advent, of which He does not know that "day".

And for the "mid-tribbers", there is no verse that says...>"halfway thru the Tribulation, Jesus knows to come and get his redeemed.

So, i teach that all this Rapture dating is a mystery , same as the 2nd Advent is a mystery., tho im personally a Pre-Trib person, based on other Scriptures..

 

There is no verse in the NT that says...>"Jesus knows when the Rapture will occur"......but there is a verse in the NT that says this...

Mark 13:32.  """"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the SON, but the Father.'"""

Now if someone says...>"well, Jesus didnt know it when that verse was written, but now that he's back in Heaven God told him all the Dates", then all i can say is that there is no verse that supports this idea, but, there is no verse that denies this concept.

So, its not "theological error" to teach that Jesus knows when the Rapture will come, but does not know when the 2nd Advent will happen, as there is no verse that says "Jesus does not know when the Rapture will occur".. Just as there is no verse that says...>"Jesus knows when the Rapture will occur"...:)

But, there is Mar 13:32 that says that God knows something about a certain Return of Jesus, that Only God Knows, and Jesus does not know.. and i apply this verse to both.

I teach that Jesus does not know the time of the Rapture, based on that 2nd Advent verse, but its perfectly fine to teach that He does know when the Rapture will occur, but does not know when the 2nd Advent will occur.

Its perfectly fine to teach...>"well, now that Jesus is back with God, God has given Him more details about when He is to come back, that are not in the NT.

Sure.

Absolutely.

 

B

Edited April 6, 2020 by Behold

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Behold said:

Diaste,   If Jesus does not know when it is, then F Kenton Beshore, is only guessing.

Here is how you can know.

Just wait for the global event that is going to bring in the Anti-Christ.  It'll be a global economic collapse.  He will then come on the GWS (Global World Stage) to solve that...

So, when you see Government's collapsing, because they are going broke trying to deal with a crisis, and the USA actually does go broke or there is constant worldwide  talk that is is going to happen (same thing, as perception is reality)< then you will know that the man of sin is about to come to solve this Global Economic Crisis.

When you see that happening, then the Rapture will occur first.....

Find your DATE, right there.

THIS GENERATION is speaking about THE GENERATION that sees all these signs that Jesus proclaimed to the Disciples. Its about 10-12 signs, from the Temple being torn down, to famines, false prophets, false christs, the Gospel going to the ends of the earth, the AoD, troubles like never before seen,  THE ANTI-CHRIST & FALSE PROPHET, and finally The sign of the Sun and Moon {Joel 2:31} is the last sign. Now does this parable make sense ?

Matt. 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation {that sees ALL THESE THINGS} shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

ALL THESE THINGS ends with this verse...........29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The FIG TREE Parable has nothing to do with Israel in THIS INSTANCE, its about all the signs. Whatever Generation sees the 70th week come, then the troubles, the the Sun and Moon go dark, THAT GENERATION shall not pass until Jesus returns !! Well, that's a no brainer, the 70th week is just 7 years and the Jews who see the Sun and Moon go dark and the troubles will be in the 70th week. So its a given that Jesus returns before that Generation passes because a Generation is 40, 70 or 100 years and 7 years comes before 40, 70 or 100 years pass, of course. 

Jesus knows the Season, just not a DAY and HOUR. In other words, Jesus knows, LIKE WE DO, its almost time, but God the Father is the one that says, Lets Roll.  Amen. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Behold]

10 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Jesus knows the Season, just not a DAY and HOUR. In other words, Jesus knows, LIKE WE DO, its almost time, but God the Father is the one that says, Lets Roll.  Amen. 

Now that Jesus is back in Glory, its possible that He has been updated regarding things He didnt know, when He was down here, pre-Cross. 

If He has now more knowledge and actual dates regarding the foreknowledge of God, then that would be fine, as God has now had 2000+ yrs to fill Him in, while at the same time this does not void the NT, in Mark 13:32... As to us, and to Jesus when He was HERE as a man, it WAS a mystery, and is still, even if Jesus knows all the dates, right now, in Glory.     So, thats a valid argument.   That God told him the rest of the plan, this last 2000 yrs he's been back with God, while keeping it a mystery regarding US.

Now, i dont teach that., because i can't support it with a verse.  But i accept it as Logic and have no issue if someone believes it..

I teach that the Rapture Date and the 2nd Advent date, are known only to God the Father, as at least this is supported, regarding the 2AV, by Mark 13:32

Also, i dont really use the "signs" as my Rapture Timing Device.   What i do is teach that the GTrib starts when the Time of the Gentiles ends.  And that this is marked by the appearing of the Anti-christ.  And as i believe that i will be in the Clouds with Jesus before this, i then look for what brings in the devil as a human form, and that is not a sign.......>Its actually a REASON for him to take control, Globally.  And that reason will be a Global Economic Meltdown.  He will show up to solve this...Thats his INTRO.     ..so, i look for that Global situation to occur and when i see it, i know im about to leave the Planet because the Devil is about to come and run the Global Game.

A health crisis can cause the Global economy to collapse, and if that happens, then "in comes the Devil" and we are already gone.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Jesus, said that the day will not come until there come the offense and great falling away happens first.  If you so happen to be living in that time you will most likely will be one those who fell away from the faith due to the the pressure and persecution of believers.  

2Th 2:2-4 KJV - That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

Mat 24:8-13 NKJV - "All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. "And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Pray that you be counted worthy to escape this falling away.

Luk 21:36 NKJV - "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Omegaman 3.0]

39 minutes ago, JasonPerkins said:

Pray that you be counted worthy to escape this falling away.

Luk 21:36 NKJV - "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

or as most versions apparently correctly translate it, pray that you may have the strength to escape, nothing about worthyness!