2021 Rapture

[Behold]

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

He knows the general timeline.

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

We are supposed to be able to see the secrets of God via His Holy Word whilst the world can't see them, 

Jesus is ALL KNOWING

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, 

Blindness is come to Israel in part means the Nation has been blinded, not individuals per se.

I cut and pasted what you wrote that is not a guess.

A few things i will comment on.

First i dont usually engage in "end time" conversations on Forums, as its a rabbit hole of guessing, and for the most part vaguely  interesting reading that leads to more guessing and time not so well wasted.

So,  YOU say that Jesus is "all knowing", Yet, he didnt know the "day" of the 2nd Advent when He was down here talking to the Apostles...... so, thats not quite "all knowing" is it.

We do understand the word to a degree, some more then others...., as we are Spiritually connected to the One who wrote it, so, He gives us the innate ability to rightly divide it. ( to spiritually discern the spiritual)...thru study and via good teaching.   Most people on Forums who adopt the tone of a teacher,  are just eagerly looking for the reward of attention by rewriting their commentaries they study and memorize and pretend that they wrote it.   I dont do that.  And that is why i dont waste space on any christian forum cutting and pasting anything that i didnt write "from scratch" other then bible scriptures.

 I dont use commentaries, i dont use a Lexicon or own one, or any type of study bible that connects me to someone else's theology using a system.

 I have a Bible and i have a "bible promise Book", and i have quite the experience with the School of God's Spirit, and i have a few Preachers that i enjoy listening to for inspiration  that i listed on a recent Thread that asked me about "who do you like to listen to, etc".   I dont have a Christian Library, or a single set of commentaries.  I just have a Bible and a Bible Promise book.   I watch about 3 hrs of TV a week.  I spend  a good bit of my time Teaching, everywhere i can,  the NT as per "Pauline Theology" somewhere, and other then that i write music, practice my instruments, do some Photography, make some jewelry, travel,  and read a bit for entertainment and  so forth.   But commentaries??  Thats a definite nope..... as i have Paul.  He is THE commentary.  He is THE 75% of the NT.  He is THE only Apostle whom Jesus called from Heaven as Saul into Paul and took Him aside to teach "justification by faith" and 99% of all "church doctrine"..   So, by studying Paul, i get as close to the mouth of Jesus as i possibly can STAY.   And its only Paul who told you to "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"....So, thats what i have done for a long time, and i try to get my readers and my followers all other this world to do the same.

If you want to know GOD, you trust Christ and become born again.  If you want to Know what God wants you to KNOW< then you study Paul, and you do this for LIFE.

I especially avoid  end time stuff that is robbed from some commentary, posted by someone on a forum .  I dont like FAKE, and  I can spiritually discern it  when a person is just reworking a commentary to pretend they wrote it ALL originally as their Thread or Post,  and the worst of all is  for a fakir to   cut and past a foot of it in text on a Forum Thread.....   So, well, i really hate this pretense to spirituality, almost as much as i despise a devil led someone who is trying to convince a real believer that they can "lose their salvation".  

 Also, i dont deal with the end time signs, as its a guessing game as per each person's POV.  Theologians do not agree on anything related to the "end times" other then Jesus is coming back, and that there is going to be a Great Trib.  Some dont even accept that the Rapture is an authentic NT fact.  So, i try to avoid discussing this topic, as i said,  and prefer to stay with Paul and deal with helping sincere believers learn more about their eternal status as a Child of God, and more about the Amazing Grace that maintains this for them, and why.

Also, the spiritual blindness that has happened to Israel is  "per Jew",  as its the  individual Jews who make up "israel"... And if you spend any time in Israel you'll note that unless they are Messianic, then the entire population is ither Zealot Black Coats or simply agnostic party animals, and in both cases that is each unbelieving Jew who has rejected their only Messiah.   In the GTrib, God restarts His dealing with the Jews, that has been postponed during the "time of the Gentiles", etc.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Behold

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

MM,

 The scriptures do not say...>"after Christ was glorified, God told Him the date of the Rapture and the date of the 2nd Advent".

However, i have no issue with the idea or teaching that after Christ ascended, and for the last 2000 yrs, God has been bringing him up to Theological speed.

Consider that Jesus was GOD, when He was here, and didn't know at that time, the day of the 2nd Advent.....

So, if the Son, now glorified has been given the knowledge that He as GOD, didnt have when He was here, then im good with that, but, i can't prove that by using a Bible, as no scripture supports that Logical conclusion you are explaining.

 

Question: "If Jesus is God, why did He not know when He would return?"

Answer: Speaking of His second coming, Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father” (Matthew 24:36; cf. Mark 13:32). The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14), and we know that God is omniscient. So it seems strange that Jesus would say that He did not know when He would return.

The key to understanding Jesus’ seeming lack of knowledge in this matter lies in the nature of the Incarnation. When the Son of God became a man, He remained fully God, but He also took on a true human nature. Jesus retained all the attributes of divinity, yet, as a man, He voluntarily restricted their use. This was part of the “self-emptying” or self-renunciation spoken of in Philippians 2:6–8. When Christ entered our world, He laid aside the privileges that had been His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (as the NIV translates Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” (NLT). He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a servant.

There were times when Jesus publicly manifested His divine knowledge and power on earth (John 2:25; 11:43 –44). On those occasions, Jesus’ demonstrations of His divinity were directed by the Father. On other occasions, He had no such directive from the Father, and He kept His glory veiled. On all occasions, Jesus obeyed the Father’s will: “I always do what pleases him,” He said (John 8:29).

So, when Jesus said He did not know when He would return, He was actively humbling Himself and taking the form of a servant (see Philippians 2:7–8). Since no other mortal knows the time of Jesus’ return—that information is the Father’s alone (Matthew 24:36)—Jesus voluntarily restricted His knowledge on that point. It was part of Jesus’ submission to the Father (see John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28–29) and His mission to live a human life.

Some things Jesus apparently chose to “give up the rights” to be privy to during His earthly ministry. The knowledge of when He would return was one of those things. Jesus, now exalted in heaven, surely knows all, including the timing of His second coming.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-know-return.html

Edited April 7, 2020 by missmuffet

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

I cut and pasted what you wrote that is not a guess.

A few things i will comment on.

First i dont usually engage in "end time" conversations on Forums, as its a rabbit hole of guessing, and for the most part vaguely  interesting reading that leads to more guessing and time not so well wasted.

So,  YOU say that Jesus is "all knowing", Yet, he didnt know the "day" of the 2nd Advent when He was down here talking to the Apostles...... so, thats not quite "all knowing" is it.

That is not what I said, everyone on earth will know the day of the Second Advent. Seems you are conflating the Second Advent with the Rapture, but they are two separate events. Once the Beast gains power we know he has 1260 days to rule, so anyone with descent math skills can figure out that 1260 days is exactly 3.5 years and thus the Second Advent/Coming will be 1260 days after the Beast Conquers Jerusalem.

And as a preacher of nigh 35 years this is my calling. I was shown a vision in 1986 that the Anti-Christ was in the world at that time. And as a young Christian God needed to POKE ME again to get me to take it serious, so I was in a HUGE Auditorium with like 10 other people listening to Jimmy Swaggart preach. Within 2 weeks he had fallen from Grace so God was showing me that before he even fell. So then I took the other vision serious. So the End Time is my forte. We need to understand it and leave a RECORD of what those on earth need to both look for and what the need to do after the Church is gone. There is no debate about it when God gives you everything the debate is settled, of course that takes praying, seeking, work, I have a whole Exegesis on Dan. 11 that took months, I explain who every King was and who every person was. This STUDY is how I figured out who the False Prophet will be....not a name, but a job description. He will be a Jewish High Priest, his TYPE was Jason who bribed Antiochus and thus had his real brother Onias III killed, a Pious High Priest. Jason {REAL NAME Yeshua} tried to Hellenize the Jews leading to the Maccabean Revolt. Likewisg the coming Anti-Christ who is a TYPE of Antiochus will also appoint a Jewish High Priest as his "False Prophet" or BEAST over Religion. 

The whole point via the timing, which really is irrelevant, is that the Father makes the decision of when to tell Jesus to return. The Father has the Glory, if Jesus had the Fullness of the Glory on him no man could have looked upon him. Likewise the Holy Spirit is the LIKENESS of God also, but not the fullness of the Glory, that resides with God alone. 

 

4 hours ago, Behold said:

We do understand the word to a degree, some more then others...., as we are Spiritually connected to the One who wrote it, so, He gives us the innate ability to rightly divide it. ( to spiritually discern the spiritual)...thru study and via good teaching.   Most people on Forums who adopt the tone of a teacher,  are just eagerly looking for the reward of attention by rewriting their commentaries they study and memorize and pretend that they wrote it.   I dont do that.  And that is why i dont waste space on any christian forum cutting and pasting anything that i didnt write "from scratch" other then bible scriptures.

I like writing every point I make except in a few cases where the points can't be improved on much. But the best way to learn God's heart is to express your understanding, so we agree, copy and pasting other peoples thoughts are a waste of time unless someone is desperate and we don't have the time. Like maybe suicidal etc. etc. My thread on Daniel 11 Below kind of shows my work. I am currently writing a book on Revelation mostly, and Daniel etc. 

 

4 hours ago, Behold said:

I dont use commentaries, i dont use a Lexicon or own one, or any type of study bible that connects me to someone else's theology using a system.

 I have a Bible and i have a "bible promise Book", and i have quite the experience with the School of God's Spirit, and i have a few Preachers that i enjoy listening to for inspiration  that i listed on a recent Thread that asked me about "who do you like to listen to, etc".   I dont have a Christian Library, or a single set of commentaries.  I just have a Bible and a Bible Promise book.   I watch about 3 hrs of TV a week.  I spend  a good bit of my time Teaching, everywhere i can,  the NT as per "Pauline Theology" somewhere, and other then that i write music, practice my instruments, do some Photography, make some jewelry, travel,  and read a bit for entertainment and  so forth.   But commentaries??  Thats a definite nope..... as i have Paul.  He is THE commentary.  He is THE 75% of the NT.  He is THE only Apostle whom Jesus called from Heaven as Saul into Paul and took Him aside to teach "justification by faith" and 99% of all "church doctrine"..   So, by studying Paul, i get as close to the mouth of Jesus as i possibly can STAY.   And its only Paul who told you to "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"....So, thats what i have done for a long time, and i try to get my readers and my followers all other this world to do the same.

I prefer Jesus, God to the Pauline way, but to each his own. I assume you are just inferring you like the Pauline take on the Gospels etc. But In find God wants us to go line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little, so that is the methodology I follow. All the bible is God's Masterpiece. 

4 hours ago, Behold said:

If you want to know GOD, you trust Christ and become born again.  If you want to Know what God wants you to KNOW< then you study Paul, and you do this for LIFE.

I especially avoid  end time stuff that is robbed from some commentary, posted by someone on a forum .  I dont like FAKE, and  I can spiritually discern it  when a person is just reworking a commentary to pretend they wrote it ALL originally as their Thread or Post,  and the worst of all is  for a fakir to   cut and past a foot of it in text on a Forum Thread.....   So, well, i really hate this pretense to spirituality, almost as much as i despise a devil led someone who is trying to convince a real believer that they can "lose their salvation".  

Well, that is not me......I know more about revelation than those people, so why would I heed anyone but God. 

4 hours ago, Behold said:

 Also, i dont deal with the end time signs, as its a guessing game as per each person's POV.  Theologians do not agree on anything related to the "end times" other then Jesus is coming back, and that there is going to be a Great Trib.  Some dont even accept that the Rapture is an authentic NT fact.  So, i try to avoid discussing this topic, as i said,  and prefer to stay with Paul and deal with helping sincere believers learn more about their eternal status as a Child of God, and more about the Amazing Grace that maintains this for them, and why.

 

No its not, if you can't understand it its because you don't try or either weren't called to that, but its not a guessing Game. God SPECIFICALLY STATED in the end times He would reveal His truths. Avoiding people is not going to help them brother. I over power their misunderstanding with so much info they run from the conversations with me many times. If its not you calling, maybe you should avoid it, but ignoring something doesn't change the facts. 

 

4 hours ago, Behold said:

Also, the spiritual blindness that has happened to Israel is  "per Jew",  as its the  individual Jews who make up "israel"... And if you spend any time in Israel you'll note that unless they are Messianic, then the entire population is ither Zealot Black Coats or simply agnostic party animals, and in both cases that is each unbelieving Jew who has rejected their only Messiah.   In the GTrib, God restarts His dealing with the Jews, that has been postponed during the "time of the Gentiles", etc.

No, else you would have no Messianic Jews........the IN PART means Israel as a Nation was foresaken. God would be an unjust God to Condemn all Jews to hell or a large portion of Jews to hell, He never did that when blinding Israel, He just accepted that as a Nation they would never turn to him until the end times, and even then its only 1/3. But God doesn't pick out a PEOPLES and say you are cursed, that is why we have always had Messianic Jews. The Truth is just as big a percentage of Gentiles are going to go to hell. We have 8 Billion people on earthy and 2 billion are Christian, that is like 25 percent, and the 5 BRIDES who don't have oil in their Lamps make up half of the Church, so like maybe a Billion people, will be Raptured, or like 10 percent, few there be that finds the way. 

The Jews REPENT BEFORE the DOTL comes, Malachi 4;5-6 tells us that. 

 

[Behold]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "If Jesus is God, why did He not know when He would return?"

Answer—Jesus voluntarily restricted His knowledge on that point. 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-know-return.html

Ok, thats a guess, and i have no issues with this guess.

It can't be supported by a bible verse, but, it can be associated with a good solid guess.

So, as long as we can't know for certain, i think i prefer your previously stated  concept of "once Jesus was in Heaven, God told him all the details of the return plan" as this supports more carefully the idea that the First Person of the Trinity has a reason for not showing the Bread of Heaven, this detail, while He was down here.

Perhaps, because Jesus is THE Truth, and would always have to tell the truth.....God knew that to keep the "day" a mystery from Man that is later to be sealed inside a Bible,  He had to not reveal it to the Word.  And this way, when those apostles were asking Jesus all those Questions, ..... The Lord was being honest with them when He said "i dont know"......whereas, had He known, He would be obligated to tell them and that would reveal what God wanted to keep as a mystery.

But thats a guess. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

22 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is not what I said, everyone on earth will know the day of the Second Advent. Seems you are conflating the Second Advent with the Rapture,

The whole point via the timing, which really is irrelevant, is that the Father makes the decision of when to tell Jesus to return.

I prefer Jesus, God to the Pauline way, but to each his own. I assume you are just inferring you like the Pauline take on the Gospels etc

 

"pauline take on the Gospels"?

There is no such thing.

Also, The Gospel that we understand as "the preaching of the Cross", "the gift of righteousness" "justification by Faith", "Faith is counted as Righteousness", ALL came thru Paul from CHRIST.  Everything we understand about Church Doctrine, came from Paul.

It was Peter in 2nd Peter who had Paul's letters, and said they are equal to the TORAH.....and that is a JEW, an Apostle, saying that Paul's words were SCRIPTURE, before a Greek Text came into this world to create a BIBLE.

So, as you have rejected all this, as "whatever", then im sure you wont mind if i would reject your teaching, as there is no way, NO WAY, that God will give you anything, when you Reject the very person that God called to give you the NT.....nearly all of it.

I have no idea what you think there is other then the "Pauline way", but i assume you mean Jehovah's witness, or Scientology, or Mormonism, as there is such thing as a true bible believer who discounts Paul as you just did.

Sorry, no.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Behold

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Behold said:

"pauline take on the Gospels"?

There is no such thing.

Sure, what do you think his letters were about ? Jesus Christ, thus those Epistles are his take on the Good News of Jesus Christ. You overthink it brother. 

5 hours ago, Behold said:

Also, The Gospel that we understand as "the preaching of the Cross", "the gift of righteousness" "justification by Faith", "Faith is counted as Righteousness", ALL came thru Paul from CHRIST.  Everything we understand about Church Doctrine, came from Paul.

 

Mmmmmmmm no, seems you are worshiping one man, like the Catholics worship Mary, that is a very dangerous thing. Justification by Faith we see as far back as Abraham, it was counted unto Abraham as Righteousness because he BELIEVED God. Jesus taught about Justification by Faith. Peter was teaching the Gospel before Paul was even a Christian. Paul's calling was to take the Gospel unto the Gentiles. 

5 hours ago, Behold said:

It was Peter in 2nd Peter who had Paul's letters, and said they are equal to the TORAH.....and that is a JEW, an Apostle, saying that Paul's words were SCRIPTURE, before a Greek Text came into this world to create a BIBLE.

 

We don't even have the full context of the Epistles, this is why much of Pauline doctrine can be confusing. We have people who don't see the full conversation, so of course they can't figure out that 2 Thessalonians 2 is about the RAPTURE, not a FALLING AWAY of the faith. Its a DEPARTURE from this earth, not from the Faith. If we had the Thessalonians correspondence to Paul then that would be much more evident. I don't think the Epistles were ever meant by Paul to be "Thus saith the Lord" else he would have expounded on things he left unclear because he was speaking to these Churches at times in person, thus there was no use in writing a long letter about doctrine per se, he would just say, you know that when I was with you we spoke about these things, but THE THINGS were left unsaid in the Epistles many times. That is not how God's Holy Word works, the Prophets were very meticulous in their "Thus saith the Lord" renditions of scriptures. 

5 hours ago, Behold said:

So, as you have rejected all this, as "whatever", then im sure you wont mind if i would reject your teaching, as there is no way, NO WAY, that God will give you anything, when you Reject the very person that God called to give you the NT.....nearly all of it.

I have no idea what you think there is other then the "Pauline way", but i assume you mean Jehovah's witness, or Scientology, or Mormonism, as there is such thing as a true bible believer who discounts Paul as you just did.

Sorry, no.

I have found one of the few Paul worshipers is seems. 

[JohnD]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:23 AM, Diaste said:

"“Jesus says in Matthew 24:34 that this ‘born one,’ or ‘this generation will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled,’” says Beshore, 86, who holds five doctoral degrees in theology.

“He pictures Israel as a Jewish boy, born May 14, 1948, that would grow up and become an old man until He comes in glory to establish His millennial kingdom. Now, how long is this generation—this ‘born one’? The first meaning of ‘born one’ is in Psalm 90:10. If you extend that from 1948, the outside date for the millennium would be 2028. Take off seven years for the Tribulation and the outside date for the rapture would be 2021. The rapture could take place before that, but certainly by then.”" - Dr. F Kenton Beshore

There ya go. Last 13 months before harvest. 

5 theological degrees says it's true.

And if the tribulation is only 3.5 years long?

2024 / 2025?

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

And if the tribulation is only 3.5 years long?

2024 / 2025?

I posted this to watch yet another Pretib Rapture prediction come and go. I used to listen to Dr. Beshore on the radio everyday but I don't buy his prediction. If it does come to pass it won't be pretrib in any case.

[R. Hartono]

On 4/7/2020 at 8:36 AM, RonaldBruno said:

If these sorrows increase and we see no light at the end of the tunnel ( with wars, earthquakes, famine, and more pestilence), we will see theirs soon.

Thats quite interesting Bro.

[Behold]

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Sure, what do you think his letters were about ? Jesus Christ, thus those Epistles are his take on the Good News of Jesus Christ. You overthink it brother. 

Mmmmmmmm no, seems you are worshiping one man, like the Catholics worship Mary, that is a very dangerous thing. Justification by Faith we see as far back as Abraham, 

We don't even have the full context of the Epistles, this is why much of Pauline doctrine can be confusing.

I have found one of the few Paul worshipers is seems. 

-

Paul isn't the savior, He is just the ONLY APOSTLE  whom Jesus personally took aside to give 99% of Church doctrine to, so that we the Body, can have it.

This is your NT.   Its all that other "stuff" that actually matters,  that isn't the book of The Revelation that you seem to have missed this last 35 yrs when you were completely and obsessively stuck in that one epistle, according to your words... "brother".

Listen,..

 = When you want to know all the Doctrines related to "justification by faith", you go to Paul as Paul is your Teacher of these fundamentals.

When you want to know How to teach the "gospel", or the "preaching of the Cross", you run directly to Paul.....every time.

Everything that we the Body, understand about how to choose a Paster, a Deacon , A Bishop....    Everything what we the body understand about " the 9 spiritual gifts"... Everything that we the body understand about the "infilling of the Holy Spirit" "the gift of righteousness", "justification by faith"... "Christ as sole Mediator".....and everything else, we learn from PAUL.    When you want to Learn how to set up and run your church, you dont read Peter and John, my  "brother", you read TITUS AND TIMOTHY....You run directly to PAUL.  The reason you know and learn how to "rightly divide" the scriptures and to "study them to show yourself approved" is because PAUL told you to do it.    Got  ALL that, "brother"?    No?  well its time you did, isn't it?

Its Paul that said we are to "follow me as i follow Christ", so, as you have a big issue with this, i'll leave you to have it for 35 more years., Ok, "brother"?

And. you say we dont have the "full context of the Epistles', and that is nonsense, unprovable, deceitful,  written apparently by a person who does not view the Bible as complete or as your final authority, as you can't believe the bible is not contextually complete then say you trust it as your final authority, as if you say that, you are lying.

So, i'll tell you this,  in your next post,  you will probably denigrate and castigate the Apostle Paul again,   So, fire away when ready.

---------------------

Here, below....  is what you can think about..

No one is given a "vision" to deny the Epistles as complete as this attacks the word of God, and noone who names the names the Name of Jesus, would be walking in the light of spiritual discernment, if they are on a public forum trying to deny Paul's position that Christ Himself chose him to occupy as the writer of most of the NT, and giver of 99% of all the Church doctrine.  Yet that is what you just did, because that is what you actually are, "brother".   Your own words speak the truth about you, and all i did was quote you.

Now, here is what you've done.  Pay attention..   You've spent 35 yrs chasing the rabbit hole mystery of the book of The Revelation, as you yourself stated, instead of doing what Jesus told you to do that is defined as the "great commission".   You are someone who 35 yrs ago,  got sucked into something useless, for 35 yrs, that has NO capacity to lead anyone to Christ or teach anyone the Pauline Principles of "justification by Faith" or lead anyone to JESUS.   Thats what you've done for 35 yrs according to what you have SAID.

And now will you come and proclaim yourself to be the soul winner of all soul winners?   Is that next for us to hear?   Hummmm.  We'll, if i were you, just go ahead and  stick with the 35 yrs being stuck inside the maze of the Book of The Revelation, as why not just be honest, if you can't be anything else regarding the entire New Testament.

Thx.

Let me give you a final clue "brother".... The Great Commission is NOT... "go into  all the book of the Revelation and stay stuck in this rabbit hole for 35 yrs, instead of winning souls for Your Lord or teaching real believers how to understand THE CROSS".

So, congrats "brother", you accomplished living in a rabbit hole theologically, for 35 yrs, so you yourself have stated.... that has so ruined your understanding of the NT, that you are on a public forum denying the epistles as being contextually complete, while also casting doubt upon the very Apostle to the Gentiles that wrote most of the NT.

 

 

B