Divorce

[Novus]

Hi Gim

Fornication has occurred - a sexual relationship outside marriage (both partners are not married to each other or anyone else). They are both unmarried and therefore not bound to each other. They are free to enter into a marriage bond with each other should they choose. They are free to marry someone else should they choose. A marriage must be entered into willingly (a covenant is one where both parties agree). I can't find anywhere in the NT that stipulates that in this situation they must get married to each other - if there is a passage somewhere please let me know. It stands to reason that the child must be cared for. However, there is a passage in the OT in Exodus 22:16-17 that seems to address a similar situation you are describing - albeit there is no mention of a pregnancy in this case:

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

You will notice that it mentions the father of the girl refusing to let them marry (his daughter is under the care and protection of her father).

I don't believe that we are under the Law of Moses. We are under a New Covenant and therefore are not bound by the Law of Moses through the death of Christ - Romans 7:1-6, as far as I understand, also speaks to this:

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Bottom line: They are free to marry each other or anyone else should they choose. They are free to remain single should they choose. If they are both Christians (who have slipped into sin), they may strongly consider marrying each other (only in the Lord - 2 Corinthians 6:14):

RSV - Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Be′lial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?

The word "mismated" here has a sexual connotation in the Greek.

NLT - Don’t team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness? What harmony can there be between Christ and the devil? How can a believer be a partner with an unbeliever?

I hope you found this useful?

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Novus

[Behold]

9 minutes ago, Novus said:

Hi Gim

Fornication has occurred - a sexual relationship outside marriage (both partners are not married to each other or anyone else). They are both unmarried and therefore not bound to each other.

What you are describing is your imagination in place of the NT.

If you will take the time to find out that God says that "ONE FLESH" is marriage, and not just the paper or the wedding vow, you will be actually agreeing with the NT, vs, posting what has nothing to do with the NT.

So, "spiritually" and "physically", when you fornicate, you become "one flesh" with the sex partner.

Or as the NT teaches.  "two shall become ONE FLESH".  Mark 10:8

Or as Paul teaches,  1 Corinthians 6:16.  ""What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith GOD, shall be >one flesh<.""

So, that verse is talking to you.   "Knew you not"?  as you don't know this, until today.

You should actually get a concordance and a Bible, and sit down and do a deep research on "ONE FLESH"< and discover something about God's perspective on marriage so that you are not just found on a Christian forum guessing.

This stuff kinda matters, so, guessing is not the way to do it.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Behold

[Novus]

1 hour ago, Godismyloveforever said:

Thanks just curious.  Glad I am still a virgin. 

                     

1 Corinthians 7:8, 26, 40 - To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. ...  I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. ... Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

Paul has an interesting take on singleness and even seems to lean toward it's advocacy within the aspect of "...the present distress".

Edited April 14, 2020 by Novus

[missmuffet]

On 4/8/2020 at 4:02 PM, RarexxRose said:

How is divorce or getting a divorce a spiritual work? How do you know if you are truly and fully divorced from a person?

I don't know that getting a divorce is a spiritual work. You have to be legally divorced. You have to go through legal channels. 

[Novus]

7 hours ago, Behold said:

No offense intended,  but,  Im really only intersted in what God teaches, and because i understand the NT and the mercy of God, im not really available to leave that and agree with someone's opinion who resists it.

Here is what i can tell you.  If you want to be a very strict idealist regarding the subject of divorce and remarriage, then you can teach...."only for the cause of desertion and fornication".

But if you want to live in the real world and deal with real situations, then you have to eventually come to the realization that the heart of the law is mercy.

The Law is not given for you to be under its dominion to prove you are worthy enough for God to accept.

The Law, is given to show you that God's mercy is greater then the Law that previously defined you and all your good works as a sinning filthy rag.

Listen, Novus.  God is not just the God of the Law..>>He is much more.  The law does not define Him... He is defined by LOVE.   Love is Mercy, and Charity, and compassion.  The Law is NONE OF THIS.

So, God deals with us, by becoming One of us, to be able to be touched with the feelings of our fears and worry and insecurity and pain.

When God deals with HIS CHILD who He hung on a Cross while Bleeding to SAVE, He does not later become less merciful.

Here is one of the greatest gifts that God gives continually.   Its a ... 2nd Chance.  And God gives these for as long as you live.  He endlessly gives you a 2nd chance.

And that INCLUDES accepting that you need to get out of a bad marriage that has ruined your life, is ruining your children, and is stopping you from even having hope for tomorrow.

Do not condemn God's children.    He doesn't.    So, neither should you.

Not my place to condemn so not doing that nor giving my own opinion. I'm responding to a posted query giving my understanding of what the Bible actually says on this topic and in particular from a NT perspective. You are correct in that God's word supercedes human opinion. As disciples of Christ it is important to see things from God's point of view - his way brings peace. This is where I stand.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Novus

[Novus]

4 hours ago, Behold said:

What you are describing is your imagination in place of the NT.

If you will take the time to find out that God says that "ONE FLESH" is marriage, and not just the paper or the wedding vow, you will be actually agreeing with the NT, vs, posting what has nothing to do with the NT.

So, "spiritually" and "physically", when you fornicate, you become "one flesh" with the sex partner.

Or as the NT teaches.  "two shall become ONE FLESH".  Mark 10:8

Or as Paul teaches,  1 Corinthians 6:16.  ""What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith GOD, shall be >one flesh<.""

So, that verse is talking to you.   "Knew you not"?  as you don't know this, until today.

You should actually get a concordance and a Bible, and sit down and do a deep research on "ONE FLESH"< and discover something about God's perspective on marriage so that you are not just found on a Christian forum guessing.

This stuff kinda matters, so, guessing is not the way to do it.

Good point regarding 1 Corinthians 6:16. Definately worth thinking about.

[Behold]

15 minutes ago, Novus said:

 giving my understanding of what the Bible actually says on this topic and in particular from a NT perspective.

You posted this..

'''Bottom line: They are free to marry each other or anyone else should they choose. They are free to remain single should they choose. If they are both Christians (who have slipped into sin), they may strongly consider marrying each other (only in the Lord - 2 Corinthians 6:14):'''

---------------

So, do you think that 2 people, 2 christians, 2 bodies, that are committing fornication, have "slipped", accidentally into it?  Were they caught unaware of the fact of their sexual contact?

Really? Thats an interesting concept you have, Novus.

Also, if God defines Marriage as "one flesh", and 2 fornicators are "one flesh"< then what do you have?

So, if you tell them to go and find others, then if they do the same with them, they have "one fleshed" again and again and again.........So, what do you have now?

See, there is a bit more to the NT regarding  "marriage",  then Just a wedding vow, a ring,  and a piece of paper, as that is just the secular idea of "marriage.

 

 

 

[Novus]

An interesting point. Thank you for sharing Behold. I would like to ask you a question based on what you have pointed to, regarding "one flesh". If a person has multiple partners  and multiple sexual encounters (which is an unfortunate reality in today's world), does this mean that he/she now has multiple spouses? Based on your insight into your explanation earlier, I can think of one logical outcome.... but would appreciate your insight if you would share?

Edited April 15, 2020 by Novus

[Novus]

39 minutes ago, Godismyloveforever said:

Good question.   Back to unmarried people having babies, I think that not only do they care nothing about God, but have no self respect, nor respect for children.  

I do believe that children deserve to be in a family. Children who look up to their parent(s) who look up to God; parents who regularly relate rightly toward each other - righteousness is more likely to  pass from one generation to the next.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Novus

[Worship Warriors]

On 4/14/2020 at 8:14 AM, Novus said:

I don't think it is biblical to "DIVORCE, move on...Find a good Christian Mate". What the bible seems to teach relating to a separation (and this may include a situation where a divorce has already occurred - past tense) is to remain separated or reconcile - 1 Corinthians 7:11 - But and if she depart (in the Greek the tense of the word is in the past tense - if a separation has already occurred), let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.  Also to consider is Romans 7:2-3 - For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.  So what Paul seems to be saying here, is that married people are in a continual state of marriage as long as either is still alive - only death dissolves the marriage bond. That is why "remarriage" after divorce while your "first" married partner is still alive constitutes adultery – which is what this passage seems to be saying. Reconciliation is preferable - repentance, forgiveness and if possible live in peace or remain separated.

The danger: People who have been advised to remarry after divorce while their first married partner is still living, are in a state of adultery and not marriage. The danger may be exclusion from God's Kingdom - Romans 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 

This is a hard teaching - very difficult and narrow. My understanding is that most Pastors today do not teach this view. If you track back in history, you will find that this "narrow" view is more consistent as you get closer to the Apostles teachings. So where did the "change" in thinking occur? It occured with a Catholic Monk - Erasmus at the time of the Reformation.

I would prefer to remain Biblical on the subject of remarriage after divorce. Don't take my word for it...study careful for yourself what the Bible actually says (to include the "exception clause"  in Matthew 19:9 - And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery - read in context. "Fornication" is the sin of a couple not actually married (albeit engaged to be married). May the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth - John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Concerning the question of divorce, the church is split on two views on this issue. The majority believes that if the do remarry, the adultery only occurs on the first night they become joined to another.  The conservative view believes it's a recurrent state of adultery.

The bible has very little to say on the subject of remarriage. I believe its becuase God wants you to content for the marriage covenant. Why ? He is after a godly seed. Scripture says your seed will possess the gates of their enemies. You cannot fulfill the dominion mandate if your marriage is in a mess.

Best to stay single if you are divorced. The divorce does not defile you , but the remarriage does, whether it's only for the first night that the adultery occurs. 

In the OT God puts a higher standard on those who are in ministry . A priest who ministers in the inner sanctuary was not allowed to marry a divorced woman. How much more a higher standard would apply in the NT ?  I would think twice about remarry , best to say single and be fully devoted to the Lord.