At what point do you leave your spouse?

[bornagain2011]

First let me start by saying this is not about me, but my good friend who I will call Karen.

 

So Karen has been with her husband for maybe 16 years, they have two boys ages 10 and 12.

Their relationship has always been very rocky. She tells me that he lacks empathy, stays up really late on his phone and wont come to bed, has a temper and lashes out, and whines and guilts her into being intimate. She on the other hand can not apologize, is proud and wont admit her wrongs, she also has a temper. I have seen him parked around town texting, and he was let go from a few teaching jobs because of being inappropriate with teenage girls.

I have been friends with her for probably 10 years, I have seen them going around in circles. Things get really bad to the point she almost leaves, and then they do counseling with couples from church, or she makes the same guy from church talk to him to try and change him. Things go.. ok for a little bit, but they both wont change. He does all the christian things, they even led a marriage bible study together.

Recently they got into a big fight waiting for their boys to get out of Awana, and he just got out of the car and walked away in the dark, her and her boys drove around looking for him for a long long time, she had to call for help to find him, which they finally did. Her boys were crying and now afraid he will do that again.

This past week she told me she wanted to leave, but she financially cant because she is a stay at home mom, and he wont let her take the boys because she is "abusive", apparently he was yelling and calling her names. She left to stay at her parent's home for a few days. She is setting up a meeting between the guy from church to talk some sense into him. And so the cycle continues. 

I have a coffee date with her on Saturday. My question is at what point does she separate? How do you know if they will never change? Her mental and physical health is failing because of the stress. How do I advise her? How many chances does she give him? Does she stay for the next 50 years with him never changing and her becoming a shell of a person?

Thank you

[Michael37]

47 minutes ago, bornagain2011 said:

First let me start by saying this is not about me, but my good friend who I will call Karen.

 

So Karen has been with her husband for maybe 16 years, they have two boys ages 10 and 12.

Their relationship has always been very rocky. She tells me that he lacks empathy, stays up really late on his phone and wont come to bed, has a temper and lashes out, and whines and guilts her into being intimate. She on the other hand can not apologize, is proud and wont admit her wrongs, she also has a temper. I have seen him parked around town texting, and he was let go from a few teaching jobs because of being inappropriate with teenage girls.

I have been friends with her for probably 10 years, I have seen them going around in circles. Things get really bad to the point she almost leaves, and then they do counseling with couples from church, or she makes the same guy from church talk to him to try and change him. Things go.. ok for a little bit, but they both wont change. He does all the christian things, they even led a marriage bible study together.

Recently they got into a big fight waiting for their boys to get out of Awana, and he just got out of the car and walked away in the dark, her and her boys drove around looking for him for a long long time, she had to call for help to find him, which they finally did. Her boys were crying and now afraid he will do that again.

This past week she told me she wanted to leave, but she financially cant because she is a stay at home mom, and he wont let her take the boys because she is "abusive", apparently he was yelling and calling her names. She left to stay at her parent's home for a few days. She is setting up a meeting between the guy from church to talk some sense into him. And so the cycle continues. 

I have a coffee date with her on Saturday. My question is at what point does she separate? How do you know if they will never change? Her mental and physical health is failing because of the stress. How do I advise her? How many chances does she give him? Does she stay for the next 50 years with him never changing and her becoming a shell of a person?

Thank you

Hi @bornagain2011

With every situation, circumstance, issue, problem or dilemma the answer is found if we seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

Putting the problem first is the wrong thing.

Giving priority to God, His Word, His Will, and His Work is the right way to resolve things.

Blessings from Michael37.

[FJK]

In any contest of wills, people should just ask themselves "Would I rather be right or happy" before trying to resolve it.

 

That's not as easy a question as it first seems, far more is involved than the immediate circumstances.

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

First let me start by saying this is not about me, but my good friend who I will call Karen.

 

So Karen has been with her husband for maybe 16 years, they have two boys ages 10 and 12.

Their relationship has always been very rocky. She tells me that he lacks empathy, stays up really late on his phone and wont come to bed, has a temper and lashes out, and whines and guilts her into being intimate. She on the other hand can not apologize, is proud and wont admit her wrongs, she also has a temper. I have seen him parked around town texting, and he was let go from a few teaching jobs because of being inappropriate with teenage girls.

I have been friends with her for probably 10 years, I have seen them going around in circles. Things get really bad to the point she almost leaves, and then they do counseling with couples from church, or she makes the same guy from church talk to him to try and change him. Things go.. ok for a little bit, but they both wont change. He does all the christian things, they even led a marriage bible study together.

Recently they got into a big fight waiting for their boys to get out of Awana, and he just got out of the car and walked away in the dark, her and her boys drove around looking for him for a long long time, she had to call for help to find him, which they finally did. Her boys were crying and now afraid he will do that again.

This past week she told me she wanted to leave, but she financially cant because she is a stay at home mom, and he wont let her take the boys because she is "abusive", apparently he was yelling and calling her names. She left to stay at her parent's home for a few days. She is setting up a meeting between the guy from church to talk some sense into him. And so the cycle continues. 

I have a coffee date with her on Saturday. My question is at what point does she separate? How do you know if they will never change? Her mental and physical health is failing because of the stress. How do I advise her? How many chances does she give him? Does she stay for the next 50 years with him never changing and her becoming a shell of a person?

Thank you

I would agree that pursuing that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ should be the key and if both spouses do it as well as pray for each other, as they draw closer to the Lord Jesus Christ, they may just see them drawing closer to each other.

James 4:1From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

[debrakay]

This is certainly a tough topic to weigh in on but I will try since my first marriage was a marriage from hell and my second marriage was a marriage from heaven.  So I like to say. 

 

My first marriage was at age 19 to a 20 year old Catholic boy who hated the Catholic church he was raised in.  God had no place in his life.  He was my first boyfriend and I was so in love.  I was 6 months pregnant when we married at the assistance of his parents.  My parents wanted me to abort the baby in early 1973 when Roe v. Wade was just legalized.  I said no.  My 50 year old daughter is now a beautiful, loving, born again, follower of Jesus Christ as are her 4 children and 3 young grand children.  This is the best part of the story and the marriage along with the son I had in 1980.  My ex was a drug and alcohol user but was rarely a physical abuser to me.  But the emotional and verbal abuse was terrible especially when I was born again at age 21.  During our 10+ years together we separated numerous times but finally in 1982 we split for good when he told me one day when he was straight and sober that he was going to kill me if I didn't get out of the house.  I packed up the kids and never looked back.  It was so hard being a single mom and working full time.  After a year I met a nice Christian man and we married.  He passed away in September after almost 40 years of good marriage.  My second marriage I know was the hand of God moving in my life and the lives of my children.  He raised them as his own with God in the mix.  He was a father to them because their own biological father was and is still lost in his world of selfishness, drugs, and alcohol.  My ex still does not have God in his life and 50 years later has not changed or grown one bit since I met him at age 17.  The children and grandchildren know he has troubles but know the trouble is all self inflicted.  We all pray for him but there is nothing we can do for him.  He chose and still chooses to turn his back on God and his family.  There are some people who we can do nothing for and there comes a time when we have to wipe their dust from our feed and move on.  There is the scripture that says we should not cast our pearls before swine.

 

I will say prayers for this little family but unless the husband is willing to change and walk with God there may be no hope for reconciliation or stability.  Granted, we have a God who can do the impossible but we have to discern what he means for those impossible, selfish, people. 

[other one]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:44 PM, bornagain2011 said:

So Karen has been with her husband for maybe 16 years, they have two boys ages 10 and 12.

The answer to your question doesn't really pertain to Karen or her husband....    what's best for the Kids should be the deciding matter unless she's being abused.