The Shakings are beginning (written in late 2019)

[*Zion*]

Matthew 5:30

If your right hand makes you stumble and leads you to sin, cut it off and throw it away [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

Romans 9:19-20 

¹⁹ You will say to me then, “Why does He still blame me [for sinning]? For who [including myself] has [ever] resisted His will and purpose?” ²⁰ On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers [arrogantly] back to God and dares to defy Him? Will the thing which is formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

[Gideon]

24 minutes ago, Alive said:

Are you saying here (in red) that a born again saint will lose salvation if not doing what you say? This is a yes or no type question.

I am saying that if neglect so great a salvation, yes, we can lose it. 

The good seed was cast forth on good ground, on ground full of weeds, on hard soil. The good seed sprang forth to newness of life on all three soils, amen? The good soil is the saint who digs deep, allowing God to grow the seed into a tree of righteousness. 

The hard soil is rho one who does not dig deep.  He does not seek with all  his heart to have God AND His righteousness. Forgiveness is all he is after with no deep desire to run his race as if there is but one prize. 

The weedy ground is the one who lets the cares of this life choke out the life that was within him. We are warned to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world and if any man does so, the love of the Father is not in him. 

Good seed for all three. New life for all three. Only in one did the seed truly bear fruit. And what happens to all rhe branches in Him that bear no fruit? They are cast forth and burned. Now one can argue that this does not say they are not saved. That is true. Maybe they are saved, but as though by fire.

And suppose this means they will go through the tribulation while those who are good ground shall escape all these things that come upon the earth? As God writes to the church in Sardis.... to Christians....  "There are a few of you who will walk with me in white, for you are worthy." Why would God tell us to "pray that we be found worthy to escape all these things that are to come upon the earth and stand before the Son of God"?

People get upset about whether or not one can lose their salvation. Should we not rather be upset that we are willing to gamble with our souls that our disobedience and lack of hunger to obey our God will in no way affect our eternity. Something is not right in such a heart. That is the real issue I have with OSAS. 

If it turns out these who will have all their works burned up and yet, in the end are saved but as though by fire, have to endure the  tribulation, should this in itself not be motive enough to seek the face of God to set us free from our contentment solely with forgiveness , with no real heart to be made holy obedient children?

blessings,

Gideon 

[Alive]

You didn't answer my question. I will repeat it. Are you saying that a 'born from above--born again' will lose their salvation? if they don't do as you are teaching?

Yes or no.

[Gideon]

9 minutes ago, Flowersun said:

I struggle with what you say here.

especially about the warnings deceitfulness of sin,for over time hardens hearts.

 

Not if you are in Christ it doesn't,.......focused on him...because the Holy Spirit leads me.he dwells in me..talking about myself here,not others...my ears,heart,eyes are fixed on the Lord..not man.

i once had a hardened heart as a new believer....my heart has been softened by the Lord,..in his timing and strength...I can do nothing in my own strength.

Sister, I rejoice in the state of your heart. Just do not assume no matter what you do that there is no danger. Satan is a real adversary and we are warned to watch, for he seeks whom he may devour. Why even warn us of this if there is no real danger? Why tell us that if we DO rhere things, we will never  fall?  Why on earth have any warnings at all  in the Bible for believers?  If these was no danger of some sort of great loss, the warnings are at best a waste of words and at worst sowing confusion in God's people. 

blessings,

Gids

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Gideon

   I want to tell you that I do understand what you are trying to say,I really do.....the warnings are very clear but it always ends up in a OSAS vs You can LOSE your Salvation type of thing.....I think there is a 3rd option because I do Believe OSAS & I do not think a Born Again Believer can ever LOSE their Salvation but I do think it is "Returnable".....try to hear me out,okay?

    I think the warnings are that we do not start slipping off into a false sense of security not because one can accidentally by some thing you do or do not do,lose Salvation   BUT,if a Believer does not feed their spirit ,continues to be surrounded by heathens ,chooses to ignore the tugging at their heart they become very vulnerable to those fiery darts and slowly but surely the heart will begin to harden.....if that continues long enough the enemy & all his temptations of this world could be very appealing and I do think it is possible that the enemy could eventually convince this hardened heart to reject the Holy Spirit,willingly & intentially refuse Gods Gift....many will say,"they were not Saved to begin with"...well,were they? I don't know

   What I do know is this,lucifer was with God,in His Presence in Heaven,made higher than me.....and he refused to worship God because of his pride....he even took a 3rd of Heavens Angels with him....so am I not given free will,of course I have free will and I know that if an angel could give up Heaven then so could a man....I have no worries about losing Salvation,it's mine,God Sealed me with His Guarantee & I'm not giving that up for anything so I'll just stay near my Lord& Savior!Its pretty simple

   I believe that is what the reprobate is,the apostate,they have no remorse,they make a deliberate choice which could have been avoided if they just stayed close to God. The lures of this world can be great.....oh,I'm not talking about"sinning" and "oops,did I lose my Salvation"-nope,impossile   However I do think it is possible to get such a hardened heart to refuse the Gift of Gods Grace....

   Anyway,my 2 cents                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Not me]

5 hours ago, Gideon said:

Let's put it in a practical way. I struggled with porn and masturbation for decades as a believer. During the day, an attractive woman is seen. the immediate pull is to lust after her. That is the temptation from satan, and as ai still reside in a body of flesh, satan pulls at the cords that previously led to sin. 

Prior to my visitation thirteen years ago, I would have accepted that thought as MY thought. I would feel guilty. My shield fo faith as to who I inwardly was would have been down. Chances are, the results would have been that I would let that lust. conceive and it would being forth the act of sin. 

The initial thought was not sin. It was a temptation to sin. 

Now, today, how is that different in my life? The same thought comes to let lust have it's way.  Satan never stops tempting. It is what he does. He wants me to embrace that thought as MY thought, knowing that if I do, he has found a way past the shield and the armor. But this time it is different. My shield of faith is up. I am a new creature. It is no longer I who live but Christ who now lives in me. 

So what do I do? I resist him, steadfast in the faith. I exercise my faith, believing the thought cannot originate  with me. I identify the author of the thought.... the enemy.  I stand fast, and cast down and take captive every  thought that is not of God.

What happens? God does exactly what God has promised to do. He delivers me from the power of darkness.  He causes me to take the way of escape that He always provides. Do I fall? Nope. ?

If one  believes that inside him, there still lurks deeper layers of sin that as of yet are undiscovered,  there can be no peace, no rest. Why? There is still an unidentified traitor lurking within.  It may seem outwardly that such a mentality is humble and self deprecating, but the truth is, ones eyes are still on them, not  solely on Christ and what He has already accomplished. 

If it is no longer us that live, but Christ who now lives in us..... if we are truly dead and our life is hid with Christ in God..... if we really are no longer in the flesh and owe it nothing as Paul tells us in Romans 8, it is critical we identify the source of our thoughts. Satan uses the fact we are still in fleshly bodies to tempt us. That is all he can do. Once we understand we are not connected to our fleshly bodies with a fleshly nature, victory becomes possible. 

However, unril we finally  understand that, there is no way we can ever walk with pure consciences towards God.  We may have put  on our new nature by faith, but the door behind us must be slammed shut, for if it is not, and satan sees an opening, he will work that crack until it becomes a way to get us to fall back into unbelief. and ultimately we will end up fulfilling the lusts of the flesh by sinning. 

Either we believe we are truly dead to sin.... all sin.... and our life is hid with Christ in God, or we do not.  If we are dead, and have had our minds renewed  and now have the mind of Christ, evil thoughts must..... MUST...... come from outside us, from the enemy. Resist the devil here, and he will flee from us.  

The result? Our victory will be assured. Our consciences will remain pure. Our rest will be real and complete. And as we abide in Him.... we find to our eternal delight that we never fulfill the lusts of the flesh and always do those things that are pleasing in His sight. That is the miracle God offers each one of us. Oh, that we might run to the Lord and believe He not only forgives us but also plants our feet on the highway of holiness. 

Thank you Lord! 

blessings, my dear friend and brother in Christ

Gids

 

Hello again, so much truth put forth, as far as I am learned, you seem to have a pretty decent understanding of the not I but Christ truth.  
 

But I’m still a little confused over exactly what you are reckoning dead? 

Are you reckoning yourself dead to those inward thoughts, desires, and tendencies that you find still in yourself or are you reckoning dead those thoughts that come to you that would push you toward sin?

Are you reckoning yourself dead,  or are you reckoning those thoughts dead? 

I can’t quite make out the answer to this question.. I believe scripture puts forth the former rather than the latter... But you are being taught inwardly by God Himself so I wish you an increase in Christ in you and may God fulfill all work and word in you.. 

A friend and fellow believer, Not me 

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

You didn't answer my question. I will repeat it. Are you saying that a 'born from above--born again' will lose their salvation? if they don't do as you are teaching?

Yes or no.

I am saying a Christian with newness of life CAN lose his salvation IF he chooses to ignore the warnings that are scattered  throughout the entire New Testament. 

Let's consider these verses in Hebrews 10:

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10

A few verses later, more ammunition for the case for eternal security, right? 

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:14

So far, so good if you believe in OSAS. These two verses almost back to back seem straight forward  and darned near irrefutable, amen?  But let's not stop reading there but continue on.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Yes, but the OSAS proponent will say that receiving the knowledge of the truth does not necessarily mean the man was a child of God, right? Well, let's continue reading. 

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant.....

wherewith he WAS sanctified.....

 an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 

Hebrews 10:26-29
 

When will we get it? The one spoken of had received the knowledge of the truth. He  had been sanctified. And yet, what are we told?

 Some may try to argue that i5 still does not say he lost his salvation. perhaps, perhaps not. BUT, what type of mindset would try to say such a thing is still acceptable to the Lord? Why among most who adhere to the doctrine of OSAS also say that walking pure before the Lord is simply a " goal" and God understands and grace makes up the lack? Why are the OSAS proponents the ones who declare God sees all His children through rose colored glasses and is not even aware of his failings tp seek the Lord with all of our hearts. 

There may be a fait debate as to whether or not all the warnings speak of salvation loss or not. But what type of heart is it that do not even want to take to heart the things God warns against over and over again.

Granted, it is not for sll but for  many, at least, the thought is "I do not care if I get into Heaven by the skin of my teeth, as long as I get eternal life." They do not care if they displease their God by how they live. It does not grieve them when they sin and dishonor the name of the one they say they love.. After all, they have a"deeper" understanding of grace!  

Would this mindset not be the exact one that needs deep repentance?  Let's forget about the issue of eternal security for a moment and look at the condition of the heart that has protected itself from the chastenings of the Spirit of God by buffering itself with all the 'good scriptures', the ones itching ears like, and totally ignored the plethora of warnings, rebukes and exhortations given in the Word to His own children.

God is warning us for a reason.  Loss of salvation? Perhaps. Missing a partial rapture of those found worthy to escape all that is to come upon the earth? Perhaps. But sadly, the real reason  should be that Jesus DESERVES our total obedience and devotion. When we say any efforts on our part to draw near to Him are legalistic, we grieve the Spirit of grace that we say we love.  No longer can we simply say "Real overcoming is impossible so why try? That  would be working for my salvation!".  Those words are about to be cut out of our hearts by the God who loves us too much to let them remain there..

The shakings on the horizon are going to totally alter how we think. . if we are true sheep,  God will, if needed, shake us awake to righteousness by any means necessary..... and let grace teach us the how of holiness.... so that we sin not.  He would much rather we willingly cry out to Him in hunger and brokenness to set us free from the world, the flesh and the devil. Some will do so, praise God. Some will not. But all His sheep WILL hear His voice and fully walk in the light that is coming to overtake and bless us. 

Guys, I love you. My words are not meant to hurt but to draw you deeper into Him where real safety is found. His will is plainly declared..... that we know how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. May His will be done on earth, even as it is in Heaven.

blessings,

Gideon

  

 

[Gideon]

30 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Gideon

   I want to tell you that I do understand what you are trying to say,I really do.....the warnings are very clear but it always ends up in a OSAS vs You can LOSE your Salvation type of thing.....I think there is a 3rd option because I do Believe OSAS & I do not think a Born Again Believer can ever LOSE their Salvation but I do think it is "Returnable".....try to hear me out,okay?

    I think the warnings are that we do not start slipping off into a false sense of security not because one can accidentally by some thing you do or do not do,lose Salvation   BUT,if a Believer does not feed their spirit ,continues to be surrounded by heathens ,chooses to ignore the tugging at their heart they become very vulnerable to those fiery darts and slowly but surely the heart will begin to harden.....if that continues long enough the enemy & all his temptations of this world could be very appealing and I do think it is possible that the enemy could eventually convince this hardened heart to reject the Holy Spirit,willingly & intentially refuse Gods Gift....many will say,"they were not Saved to begin with"...well,were they? I don't know

   What I do know is this,lucifer was with God,in His Presence in Heaven,made higher than me.....and he refused to worship God because of his pride....he even took a 3rd of Heavens Angels with him....so am I not given free will,of course I have free will and I know that if an angel could give up Heaven then so could a man....I have no worries about losing Salvation,it's mine,God Sealed me with His Guarantee & I'm not giving that up for anything so I'll just stay near my Lord& Savior!Its pretty simple

   I believe that is what the reprobate is,the apostate,they have no remorse,they make a deliberate choice which could have been avoided if they just stayed close to God. The lures of this world can be great.....oh,I'm not talking about"sinning" and "oops,did I lose my Salvation"-nope,impossile   However I do think it is possible to get such a hardened heart to refuse the Gift of Gods Grace....

   Anyway,my 2 cents                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

Kwik, what a balanced wonderful post. I too think there is a third option. I am not trying to rob any of the security they feel. Many cling to it because the truth is, they do not trust themselves to hold onto it and to endure to the end. That is wisdom! LOL

I am trying to open our eyes to the fact there is indeed danger to those who do not heed the warnings. What is the danger? That remains to be seen. I know this much however. The warnings and exhortations are given to drive us DEEPER into the Lord, where our security is even more sure. 

My objection is more the mindset that the warnings are non-existent, not for us at all, and that Jesus does not see our sin at all. The word teaches otherwise. 

Thank you so much for sharing.  Your kindness and grace has formed a bridge where communication and mutual understanding can increase. 

blessings,

Gideon

[Alive]

@Gideonsaid: I am saying a Christian with newness of life CAN lose his salvation IF he chooses to ignore the warnings that are scattered  throughout the entire New Testament. 

 

So your teaching renders down to this one simple thing: you teach people that its is their own works that save them or keep them saved.

That it is the efforts of 'man' that keeps an individual that God Himself took out from the first Adam and placed 'into Christ' where his life is "hidden in Christ with God".--God that keeps him in that safe place 'In Christ' 'In Heaven' and that an absence of his works will remove such a one from that safe place where God Himself hid away that one.

The Cross of Christ teaches us that we died 'In Him' and rose 'In Him' and ascended 'In Him'.

This is a matter of history--it happened-- and you are teaching these saints of the most high God that the work of the Cross is reversed. That the free Gift of Salvation paid for by God Himself at the highest price possible is taken away, by the one that paid so dearly for it and gave by His loving Grace.

That His sons, who He adopted into His very own family, will-- because they don't do what you say they should do---will be made non-sons. That He will give them back to Lucifer.

IS this what you are teaching and planting into the minds of those reading?

Edited April 14, 2020 by Alive

[Behold]

3 hours ago, Gideon said:

We are warned against the deceitfulness of sin, for it slowly, over time hardens hearts. Many have started out in faith, but in the end will have nothing more than a head knowledge of the truth. What need to we have for a shield if no matter what, in the end, we will end up saved?

 

If you "start out in faith", then God has given you the New Birth, and you are an eternal Child of God.   You are teaching the idea that Faith saves, but that is not the Case.  You don't stay saved by keeping your faith to the end.  You are BORN AGAIN thru your faith, and God takes if from there, as He is the one who SAVED you.

Also, the "shield" is for daily living.....Its to help you when dealing with life, the Devil, etc.   The shield is not salvation.  The CROSS is salvation.

I wonder why you can't realize this?