Why Did Jesus Preach To The Dead?

[Daniel Marsh]

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Sheol 

Old Testament. The Hebrew word seol [l/a.v], "Sheol, " refers to the grave or the abode of the dead ( Psalms 88:3 Psalms 88:5 ). Through much of the Old Testament period, it was believed that all went one place, whether human or animal ( Psalms 49:12 Psalms 49:14 Psalms 49:20 ), whether righteous or wicked ( Eccl 9:2-3 ). No one could avoid Sheol ( Psalm 49:9 ; 89:48 ), which was thought to be down in the lowest parts of the earth ( Deut 32:22 ; 1 Sam 28:11-15 ; Job 26:5 ; Psalm 86:13 ; Isa 7:11 ; Ezekiel 31:14-16 Ezekiel 31:18 ).

Unlike this world, Sheol is devoid of love, hate, envy, work, thought, knowledge, and wisdom ( Ecclesiastes 9:6 Ecclesiastes 9:10 ). Descriptions are bleak: There is no light ( Job 10:21-22 ; 17:13 ; Psalms 88:6 Psalms 88:12 ; 143:3 ), no remembrance ( Psalm 6:5 ; 88:12 ; Eccl 9:5 ), no praise of God ( Psalm 6:5 ; 30:9 ; 88:10-12 ; 115:17 ; Isa 38:18 ) — in fact, no sound at all ( Psalm 94:17 ; 115:17 ). Its inhabitants are weak, trembling shades ( Job 26:5 ; Psalm 88:10-12 ; Isa 14:9-10 ) who can never hope to escape from its gates ( Job 10:21 ; 17:13-16 ; Isa 38:10 ). Sheol is like a ravenous beast that swallows the living without being sated ( Prov 1:12 ; 27:20 ; Isa 5:14 ). Some thought the dead were cut off from God ( Psalm 88:3-5 ; Isa 38:11 ); while others believed that God's presence reached even to Sheol ( Psalm 139:8 ).

Toward the end of the Old Testament, God revealed that there will be a resurrection of the dead ( Isa 26:19 ). Sheol will devour no longer; instead God will swallow up Death ( Isa 25:8 ). The faithful will be rewarded with everlasting life while the rest will experience eternal contempt ( Dan 12:2 ). This theology developed further in the intertestamental period.

The New Testament. By the time of Jesus, it was common for Jews to believe that the righteous dead go to a place of comfort while the wicked go to Hades ("Hades" normally translates "Sheol" in the LXX), a place of torment ( Luke 16:22-23 ). Similarly, in Christianity, believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord ( 2 Cor 5:8 ; Php 1:23 ). Hades is a hostile place whose gates cannot prevail against the church ( Matt 16:18 ). In fact, Jesus himself holds the keys of Death and Hades ( Rev 1:18 ). Death and Hades will ultimately relinquish their dead and be cast into the lake of fire ( Rev 20:13-14 ).

The fact that theology develops within the Old Testament and between the Old Testament and the New Testament does not mean that the Bible is contradictory or contains errors. It only indicates progressive revelation, that God revealed more of himself and his plan of salvation as time went on. That some Old Testament saints believed in Sheol, while the New Testament teaches clearly about heaven and hell, is nor more of a problem than that the Old Testament contains a system of atonement by animal sacrifice now made obsolete in Christ ( Heb 10:4-10 ) or that the Old Testament teaches God is one ( Deut 6:4 ) while the New Testament reveals a Trinity."   https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/sheol.html

[Justin Adams]

47 minutes ago, Jostler said:

Justin can we establish from Scripture whether or not that Rev 12 battle has already culminated in satan being cast to earth?  Or is that a yet future result of that battle?  I don't know the answer for certain, but is suspect that final result of that  battle is still to come.  It appears to me the saints have a role to play in that final casting down, and I don't think we've stepped up and done our part yet.  But I think it might be close to time now....

Heiser puts it that way indeed; at the advent of the messiah there was a war in heaven. That is the constellation Leo and the virgin Virgo. There are a number of good star charts showing this like John saw. There was a fierce heavenly battle and God won. Then after the resurrection it was all over for the bad dudes. Not completely all destroyed yet, but the clock is ticking against them now.

haSatan, the deceiver is different to Satan (proper noun, the Nacash) and he was cast to the erets (earth - underworld) for sure. Yeshua said 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'. Forever cast down, he can no longer bring accusations against us. His mandate to rule was revoked along with ALL the sons of God or territorial spirits over the nations. They 'will die like men' (psalm 82). Satan rules the underworld and it is our job to make sure he has fewer human people there.

The sons of God's authority is stripped by the ONE that initially gave it to them. Hence, if we understand better the supernatural, we will see that we have Power over them (if we care to use it). However, the doctrines in the churches and seminaries are afraid of all the smoke and mirrors because these principalities and powers will not give up without a fight. If we REALLY understood the gravity of our situation, we would quit fighting over doctrinal points and get with the program. Every believer we 'drag out of the fire' is one less in their domain. It is a war of attrition and we win in the end.

Us believers, as the NEW 'sons of the most High', should be routing them all.

In the final end battle it will be heaven and earth that battle on God's Holy Hill for all the marbles. Yes, divine house cleaning and an earthly one too. It will be a huge fight that make star wars look like a picnic.

It will be a battle over Bashan and the denizens of the deep plus the Holy Sons of Heaven and us believers.

[missmuffet]

39 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

@missmuffet

Dear sister, the word "Hell" in our English, is translated "Hades" in the Greek language and "Sheol" in the Hebrew language, they all have the same meaning, ...the "place" of the dead.

Have a joyous Resurrection Sunday as we celebrate our Lord and Savior's victory for us over, Hell, Hades and Sheol.

Lord bless  

Hades is not the same place as hell. They are two different places. 

[Jostler]

12 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Hades is not the same place as hell. They are two different places. 

you keep asserting that....Hades is not the Lake of Fire.  Hades and hell are synonymous.  The way translators have used the word hell to describe several distinctly different words has resulted in confusion.   Do  a word study and look at the original language words and you'll see where the confusion is.

Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus....Sheol....all translated into English as "hell" by different translators at different times....yet the underlying original words are different...the meaning of "hell" is confused until you read those in context and see what is really being talked about in each case

Edited April 12, 2020 by Jostler

[kwikphilly]

Blessings peepers

Quote

²² For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.    Dueteronomy  32:22

Seems there maybe levels of hell as we can see in the above verse of Scripture...

  Hades is the Greek word for Sheol ,which is Hebrew....I believe they are all interchangeable

...Jesus even used the word gehenna which was a place outside of Jerusalem ,like a city dump for burning garbage(Mark 9th Chapter)

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, Jostler said:

you keep asserting that....Hades is not the Lake of Fire.  Hades and hell are synonymous.  The way translators have used the word hell to describe several distinctly different words has resulted in confusion.   Do  a word study and look at the original language words and you'll see where the confusion is.

Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus....Sheol....all translated into English as "hell" by different translators at different times....yet the underlying original words are different...the meaning of "hell" is confused until you read those in context and see what is really being talked about in each case

That temporary holding place is Hades.

Question: "What happens after death?"

Answer: Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion regarding what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?
First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by missmuffet

[Justin Adams]

I am afraid 'gotquestions' is not the only, and exhaustive, repository of knowledge. It has the 'party line' generally but no deep scholarly exegesis. It is lacking in many concepts and ideas. It good for a 'general sense' and that is as far as it goes.

Never use this resource as a theological basis for your beliefs.

[Jostler]

4 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

That temporary holding place is Hades.

 

 

yes it is....it is the realm of the dead, aka Sheol.  And one day Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire....God is not going to cast Hades into itself   The two are not synonymous, one is temporary, one is eternal, and one consumes the other after the judgement.

Tartarus is a specific sector of Hades...Gehenna is a natural/physical "type", the valley of Hinnom -pointing to the eternal fire of the Lake of Fire and ultimate destruction of the rebellious soul and satan and his minions...and death.

[Justin Adams]

Now we approach a dichotomy. If the denizens are confined to the lake of fire eternally - I.e. one of the sentences mentioned in the scriptures. Then what happens when HELL (hades, underworld etc etc) is destroyed? It says this also in the scriptures that death (and the place of death) will be forever destroyed - I.e. implying that the 'place of torment' will be also destroyed. So how can torment be 'forever'?

This seems an easy thing to gloss over, but maybe it is not so simple..?

[Jostler]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Now we approach a dichotomy. If the denizens are confined to the lake of fire eternally - I.e. one of the sentences mentioned in the scriptures. Then what happens when HELL (hades, underworld etc etc) is destroyed? It says this also in the scriptures that death (and the place of death) will be forever destroyed - I.e. implying that the 'place of torment' will be also destroyed. So how can torment be 'forever'?

This seems an easy thing to gloss over, but maybe it is not so simple..?

it's not one I personally struggle with. 

 

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Rev 14:11

“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

My tendency to read very literally doesn't see any problem with eternal torment....though I understand there are differing viewpoints.

 

I think those that struggle with the idea of eternal torment do so because they cannot reconcile eternal torment with the fact God is love.  Yet to my understanding the Bible is clear that the Lake of Fire is eternal, and so is the torment of those who choose to go there.  Denial of eternal mercy leaves nothing but subjection to eternal justice.   Mercy triumphs over judgement...and nothing else can.

 

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Rom 11:22

Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

I suspect that when we know Him even as we are known, we will be astonished at how little we truly apprehended of the sheer magnitude of His grace and mercy, His kindness, and how much we failed to discern of the abject terror of His judgement.