Diaste Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,637 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 15 hours ago, iamlamad said: Thanks. i was not sure you would answer. Now, can you answer HOW He got revealed in 3b. (Verses 6-8 tell us) Sitting in the Temple and proclaiming he is God over all that is called god or worshiped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Diaste said: Sitting in the Temple and proclaiming he is God over all that is called god or worshiped. Yes, that is how He will be revealed to the world. But that is not what is written in verses 6-8. There we read that there is a restrainer holding him back, preventing him from being revealed before his time. Of course, ONLY GOD knows the proper time. My only point is, he cannot and will not be revealed until that restraining force is "taken out of the way." Since in verse 3b he IS revealed, then logic tells us in 3a that restraining force has at that time already been "taken out of the way." Therefore, hidden somewhere in verse 3a is the restraining force removed and taken out of the way. That is why Paul wrote, 'and now you know what is restraining...." Yet few people do know because they don't understand why Paul did not come right out and say it. I can only guess because Paul didn't say it: my guess is, He wrote it so that ONLY those who had his first letter would understand. He wrote "and now you know" so that people would back and and read, back up and read - until they discovered WHO that restrainer really is. The HUGE question then is this: WHERE in verse 3a is the restrainer "taken out of the way?" I think there is only ONE WORD in 3a that could possibly fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 15 hours ago, iamlamad said: It is the Bride who will be caught up and so be in heaven for the marriage. The bride of Christ, the Lamb's wife, consists of both old covenant and new covenant believers. Old covenant believers are then also considered to be "in Christ." Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, The Light said: Nice dodge of Luke 17. You quoted a large number of scripture to justify an errant interpretation of the destination of the dead bodies as armageddon. You did a lot of work, all for nothing. You only proved your own assertion wrong. No translation of Luke 17 states or implies the dead bodies are taken to Armageddon (which is a prophetic battle) nor are they taken to hell (which doesn't exist). I didn't write either, though you deliberately misquote me as well as the Bible. Your deliberate misquotations are required to support a false doctrine. This is no surprise because Rapture devotees are required to misrepresent any comment by opposition even when that opposition includes the words of Jesus Himself. I have desired a more open and honest expression of opinion. Have I labored in vain? I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. - Galatians 4:11 My specific point is that the dead bodies are removed to a place where carrion birds feast upon their flesh. The scripture is simple and its meaning not convoluted at all - except by those who put doctrine before the Bible and who use scripture to justify demonic dogma. Every heretic in history and every totalitarian state known has done the same thing. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19 Again, your references only certify my point - that those who are TAKEN are removed to a place other than clouds or heaven or the company of the righteous. This passage alone destroys the Rapture dogma originally invented by futurist Francisco Ribera and John Nelson Darby. Futurism or Dispensationalism as it is presently known is a ROMAN CATHOLIC invention. It is not indigenous to the Bible and it directly subverts the Protestant position opposed to Catholic domination of the Christian religion. It opposes the protests of the fathers of Protestantism and supports Roman Catholic heresy. You cannot ignore the assertions by the fathers of the Protestant reformation (John Calvin & Martin Luther to name a few) and you cannot formulate a logical argument against the context of scripture (that God sees His people THROUGH difficulty rather than REMOVE them from it). Rapture doctrine is the province of cowards in that it does NOT affirm faith in God's ability to escort the saved through problems. It is in direct opposition to the overall teaching of the Bible in this regard. You cannot simultaneously hold with Rapture doctrine and faith in Christ's intention to deliver. It's a logical impossibility full of obfuscation, which in turn allows it to flourish in the minds of gullible people. Do you stand with Christ or do you stand with Rome? I stand with Jesus because He has delivered me THROUGH trouble and in faith I believe He will continue to do so. I would not be alive and breathing today if He had not. Those that hold to the Rapture doctrine do so by justifying lies and confusion and who also seek to destroy faith in God who can AND WILL deliver THROUGH any and all tribulation. I've seen Him do it. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I accept that you may be far too young to have experienced His intention and ability to deliver. I assure you Jesus can - without vertical escape devices or lies. Trust in Him, not bogus doctrines of the devil. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. - 1 Timothy 4:1 Read the Bible and understand what it says - simply - without mask or reinvention. It has the power to save. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Edited April 27, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 No O.T. believer was ever indwelt by the H.S. as we are today since Pentecost. The Bride are from Pentecost onward. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: No O.T. believer was ever indwelt by the H.S. as we are today since Pentecost. The Bride are from Pentecost onward. In Christ Montana Marv Elish, Elijah, and many other prophets too. Jeremiah was approached like Samuel was - directly by the Lord/the Word. Some of the others were heard to 'prophesy' in the Tanakh. The Holy Spirit was very active in the Tanakh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: The bride of Christ, the Lamb's wife, consists of both old covenant and new covenant believers. Old covenant believers are then also considered to be "in Christ." Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14 So that is your proof text? The city? That is NOT the bride. God is not going to marry a city! John wrote "AS a brid.e" In other words, beautiful like a bride. As far as I know, there is no verse added Old Testament saints to the Bride of Christ: the bride will be all the born again ones - those "IN Christ" - and that excludes all the Old Testament saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Elish, Elijah, and many other prophets too. Jeremiah was approached like Samuel was - directly by the Lord/the Word. Some of the others were heard to 'prophesy' in the Tanakh. The Holy Spirit was very active in the Tanakh. Agreed: usually the prophet, the priest and the king were filled with the Holy Spirit - but, my friend, that was the Holy spirit UPON or ON, NOT the Holy Spirit within. Remember Jesus parable of the wineskins? God could NEVER put the New Wine - the Holy Spirit - within an old wineskin: it would burst! No, the New Wine or the Holy Spirit within had to wait until God could make NEW wineskins or new human spirits. When one is born again, the old spirit is put to death (the wages of sin is death) and instantly a new Human spirit is created, with the Holy Spirit inside. This is not available under the Old Covenant - else Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. Search every mention of the Holy Spirit from Pentecost on: that experience was the mighty baptism of the Holy Spirit, and Luke was very careful to write "the Holy Spirit UPON or ON. It is the anointing: it was available only to certain people under the old, but under the New, available to all who are born again. Sadly the devil has so deceived the church that most born again people know nothing of the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit. Most churches just skip over Acts 1 and 2. Note also this mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit is also called being "filled with the Spirit" in the New Testament. The purpose is NOT to be born again, but for POWER to witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 24 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: No O.T. believer was ever indwelt by the H.S. as we are today since Pentecost. The Bride are from Pentecost onward. In Christ Montana Marv Right on! Good Job, Montana! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, iamlamad said: So that is your proof text? The city? That is NOT the bride. God is not going to marry a city! John wrote "AS a brid.e" In other words, beautiful like a bride. As far as I know, there is no verse added Old Testament saints to the Bride of Christ: the bride will be all the born again ones - those "IN Christ" - and that excludes all the Old Testament saints. So that's how you disregard plainly stated truth? That explains a lot actually. You claim to be so quick to adjust to the truth but when the truth is presented, you balk. Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem. It doesn't get any more clearly stated than that. Time to get rid of that warped view of dispensationalism? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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