The Rapture Deception

[iamlamad]

Just now, bornagain2011 said:

Aren't the virgins the guests of the wedding and not the bride? This is what I see when I read it.

True. The bride is not shown in this parable.

[iamlamad]

9 minutes ago, BlessedCreator said:

@Jesus my friend That's an interesting point! 

@R. Hartono There is no "great tribulation" or "7 year tribulation" that is supposed to happen in these end times. The great tribulation is speaking of the tribulations that all Christians must endure from the time of Christ's ascension unti the end. We've been in the tribulation for nearly 2000 years and it's almost over.

If you're referring to the 7 year tribulation which is based on Daniel's 70 weeks. In the last week is referring to Christ not the antichrist. I will make a thread soon to prove this.

Sorry, but MANY (including me) will disagree with this theory. Most Evangelicals today believe the entire 70th week is FUTURE to us today, ans the way God has chosen to end the Jewish 70 weeks. It was Jesus Himself that said there would be days of great tribulation. Are you then disagreeing with Jesus?  

Actually I agree in part: in Rev. 7 when John saw the just raptured church, He was told they had come out (one by one in the Greek) from "great tribulation." He was referring to the entire church age. But those days of GT Jesus spoke of are certainly in the future for those left behind at the rapture.

[R. Hartono]

59 minutes ago, BlessedCreator said:

There is no "great tribulation" or "7 year tribulation" that is supposed to happen in these end times. The great tribulation is speaking of the tribulations that all Christians must endure from the time of Christ's ascension unti the end. We've been in the tribulation for nearly 2000 years and it's almost over.

If you're referring to the 7 year tribulation which is based on Daniel's 70 weeks. In the last week is referring to Christ not the antichrist. I will make a thread soon to prove this.

Blessings Bro.

Could you tell me where in history the Jews ever made an EXODUS out of Israel as prophesied by Jesus which will happen at the Great Tribulation.

Matt 24 :15 When ye therefore shall see the ^aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the ^bholy place, (whoso readeth, let him ^cunderstand

16 Then let them which be in Judæa ^aflee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And ^awoe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[Revelation Man]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, BlessedCreator said:

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

Then I will revisit this later....

On 4/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, BlessedCreator said:

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

There really is no controversy, just those of us that understand the timing is Pre 70th week and those who don't seem to be able to grasp all the salient points.

On 4/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, BlessedCreator said:

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

No, we teach the facts, you don't get why the Church leaves the earth !! You seem to think its our duty to go through this coming Greatest Ever Troubles, the one you say further down is just the 2000 year Church Age, which I agree is the Great Tribulation spoken of in Rev. 7:9-16, because those are Church Age Saints, BUT, Jesus spoke of a GREATEST EVER PERIOD also quoting Daniel ch. 12 and wee see that in Rev. ch. 12 where the Dragon chases the Women {Israel} into the Wilderness {Petra/Bozrah area} where God protects her for 1260 days. This starts at the 1260, but Israel see a SIGN at the 1290, which is 30 days before the 1260, thus they have 30 days to flee Judea. 

The reason the Church leaves should be obvious, OUR WORK ON EARTH IS DONE !! See Matt. 24:14, what does it say? When the Gospel is preached unto all the world THEN the END {70th week} will come. The Angel Proclaims the Gospel to mankind from here on out according to Rev. 14 and the Two-witnesses turn Israel back unto God, they are the 1335 Event in Daniel 12. 

Noah had to stay on earth as did Lot, THE SEED {Jesus} had not been born yet !! The Disciples had to stay AND the early Church had to go through persecution to SAVE THE WORLD via the Gospel, thus they were persecuted, these are REASONS for beung on earth during TROUBLES. Once the Gospel has been taken unto the whole world, our job on earth is DONE!! That is not escapism, that is common sense brother. When our job is done we LEAVE this earth to go marry the Lamb in Heaven, just like Rev. 19 says, and then we RETURN with him while the Beast and his minions are still on earth. Its there for all to see !! In Rev. 19 !! We also see the Church IN HEAVEN in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened, and they have the PROMISES Jesus promised the 7 Churches in chapters 2 and 3 to the OVER-COMERS, go read it, they have CROWNS, ROBES {Raiment} and sit on THRONES. And in Rev. 5 they are called the REDEEMED, Angels are not Redeemed !! 

Jesus comes back for the 2nd advent EXACTLY 1260 DAYS AFTER the Beast comes to power to cast him into hell, so how can it be a SURPRISE sir ? It cant be, because the Second Coming will be a KNOWN ENTITY !! The Beast takes over and then a COUNTDOWN ENSUES, 1260 days later Jesus will return, with the Church at his side. The Rapture is the time when Jesus' call catches us by surprise. We are to be ready like the 5 Virgins, we need Oil {Holy Spirit} in out lamp to make the Wedding. The Jewish Wedding just so happens to cover 7 days in the fathers house, did you know that ? 7 YEARS = 7 DAYS in Prophecy. We have all the facts on our side.

On 4/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, BlessedCreator said:

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Try reading the whole chapter to get the gist brother. Starting in verse 13 Paul is telling them not to worry about those who have passed on, these Thessalonians were worrying all the time it seems, they feared they were in the DOTL in 2 Thess. 4, here they were worried about their LOVED ONES not making it to Heaven so Paul eases their fears: he says don't worry about your loved ones who sleep like those of the world do,  who have NO HOPE, for we believe in Jesus man !! We have hope for those that sleep Jesus will bring with him, or in other words Jesus calls them out of the grave FIRST, then he calls those of us who are alive to be TRANSLATED from humans to SPIRIT MEN.........In other words we die and go to heaven without ever going to the grave via our spirit men. 1 Cor. 15 CLEARLY EXPLAINS ALL THIS IN DEPTH !! No use trying to PICK &  CHOSE with me because I know all the scriptures, just post it all man.

1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God{We DIE and change in the TWINKLING of an eye}; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible{With no Sin Flesh}, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption{Sin flesh can't enter Heaven}, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,{Spirit Man} and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The LAST TRUMP Paul is speaking of has NOTHING to do with the Judgment Trumps in Rev. Its the Rapture Trump by Jesus whose VOICE is that Reverberation that calls us home, read Rev. 4:1

Rev. 4:1 After this {AFTER the Church Age} I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Its a MYSTERY {Musterion/Secret by God's Silence} until God declares it. You want to see the WHOLE HISTORY of the world in Leviticus 23 ? Its there, everything that will happen to Israel, and then the Church, and then Israel again !! This EXPLAINS what the LAST TRUMP is that Paul is speaking about.

 Spring Feast that Jesus Fulfilled

1.) Feast of Passover {Jesus Blood was shed to allow the Angel of Death to PASSOVER us all. Amen.}

2.) Feast of First-Fruits {Jesus was the First-fruits of the grave}

3.) Feast of Unleavened Bread {Jesus was WITHOUT SIN, we all agree on these three points, no doubt}

 

Harvest or the Church age we are now in.

Now is where it gets interesting, if one can SEE and HEAR !! The next Feast was the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Harvest and it just so happened to be on the Calendar all by its lonesome self, just like the Church Age we are in now !!

4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/The Harvest or the Church Age !! We are now in the Church Age, that will only end when Jesus calls us home, we are Harvesting souls for Jesus Christ, Amen. And what always ENDED the Harvest ? The Feast of TRUMPETS........Ohhhhhh, GET IT ? Paul knew EXACTLY what he was saying.

 

Fall Feasts that will be Fulfilled during the 70th Week.

5.) Feast of Trumpets { this never did much of anything, EXCEPT ANNOUNCE things !!The Trumpet SOUNDED to end the Harvest and to let it be known that the Feast of Atonement and Tabernacle were both NIGH at hand !! Amen. }

6.) Feast of Atonement { What does Israel have to do BEFORE Jesus can return to end the 70th week Judgment against Israel ? ATONE/Repent !! We know they do this, Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the DOTL comes to TURN Israel back to God. Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 of the Jews REPENT and are tried by the fire {Holy Spirit} and God calls them sons and they call God God again. THEN....we see Jerusalem is Conquered by the Beast in Zechariah 14:1-2 !!

7.) Feast of Tabernacles {The word TABERNACLE means to Dwell with God !! BOOM.......Where does Jesus reign from for 1000 years ? Jerusalem !! BOOM. Israel REPENTS then the Tabernacle or Dwell with God !! These Feasts were SHADOWS of things to come, Amen. } 

Now you know what the LAST TRUMP really means. 

On 4/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, BlessedCreator said:

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

FALLING AWAY means DEPARTURE...........The first 7 English Translations before the KJV all had DEPARTURE, it is the Church that DEPARTS, before the DOTL and before the Anti-Christ comes forth. NOWHERE in the WHOLE PASSAGE is Faith even spoken of, thus they were not FALLING AWAY from  the faith or Departing the Faith.....Satan is sneak remember, {Thou shall not surely die}. The GATHERING TO Christ Jesus is SEEN in the very first verse, that is the subject, a Gathering unto Jesus so as to not be FEARFUL of the coming wrath of God because WE WON'T BE HERE !!
 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Revelation Man

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, bornagain2011 said:

Aren't the virgins the guests of the wedding and not the bride? This is what I see when I read it.

There are no actual guests or bride escorters in the wedding of the Lamb,  all taken in the rapture are the bride.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, BlessedCreator said:

There is no "great tribulation" or "7 year tribulation" that is supposed to happen in these end times. The great tribulation is speaking of the tribulations that all Christians must endure from the time of Christ's ascension unti the end. We've been in the tribulation for nearly 2000 years and it's almost over.

Not true. Well, it's true and false. We do experience tribulations in life but there is also a 'great tribulation' coming after a future A of D near to the return of Jesus:

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." - Matt 24

The A of D mentioned above is near to the Return of Jesus and is followed by 'great tribulation'. But you are correct, it's not 7 years, maybe more like 1-2 years.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

FALLING AWAY means DEPARTURE...........The first 7 English Translations before the KJV all had DEPARTURE, it is the Church that DEPARTS, before the DOTL and before the Anti-Christ comes forth. NOWHERE in the WHOLE PASSAGE is Faith even spoken of, thus they were not FALLING AWAY from  the faith or Departing the Faith.....Satan is sneak remember, {Thou shall not surely die}. The GATHERING TO Christ Jesus is SEEN in the very first verse, that is the subject, a Gathering unto Jesus so as to not be FEARFUL of the coming wrath of God because WE WON'T BE HERE !!
 

Again, 'dicessio' is departure from ideology not 'harpazo'.

Pretrib loves to claim the harpazo as the 'rapture' then goes off the deep end and says a totally unrelated term is equivalent to 'a snatching away from one place and taken to another'.

All the while the doctrine refuse to accept that 'apostasia' is the word used in 2 Thess 2 and is, and always has been, defined as 'defection', 'revolt', 'rebellion'. 

The scriptures are not Silly Putty.

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Zemke said:

Oil is the essential aspect because it seems to me when we know to look up the issue will not be who was on first or what was on second, but do we have oil in our lamps? 

I would say learning the truth of prophecy and speaking about it is filling ones lamp.

[Revelation Man]

On 4/19/2020 at 4:58 AM, Diaste said:

Again, 'dicessio' is departure from ideology not 'harpazo'.

 

Again.....................................................the Greek language does not need an article to make a noun DEFINITE, and since Paul used an article, he is POINTING TO SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR. And since verse three uses a definite article he is pointing to something, what could that be ? Well, we know what it is, in the first verse  he spoke of the Gathering unto Christ Jesus {Rapture}. Nowhere is the passage speaking about THE FAITH, its all via YOUR BELIEF brother. Everything is seemingly fudged by people who see things with a certain tinted glasses. Just because you desire it to be about the faith doesn't mean it is, the EVIDENCE all points to the fact that its about the Rapture. Feelings lead us down wrong paths in my experience. Men's Traditions do the SAME THING. 

 

My Thread from  three or four years ago, explained it perfectly. 

Is the falling away a False Teaching? 

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1500 some odd years.

On 4/19/2020 at 4:58 AM, Diaste said:

Pretrib loves to claim the harpazo as the 'rapture' then goes off the deep end and says a totally unrelated term is equivalent to 'a snatching away from one place and taken to another'.

All the while the doctrine refuse to accept that 'apostasia' is the word used in 2 Thess 2 and is, and always has been, defined as 'defection', 'revolt', 'rebellion'. 

The scriptures are not Silly Putty.

When we get to Heaven, or before then actually on the way............a light bulb will come on for you brother. 

Prophecy is my forte, but I am well rounded on the scriptures also because I have lived and breathed it for nigh 35 years. 

God Bless.....

Edited April 20, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Again.....................................................the Greek language does not need an article to make a noun DEFINITE, and since Paul used an article, he is POINTING TO SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR. And sense verse three uses a definite article he is pointing to something, what could that be ? Well, we know what it is, in the verse first he spoke of the Gathering unto Christ Jesus {Rapture}. Nowhere is the passage speaking about THE FAITH, its all via YOUR BELIEF brother. Everything is seemingly fudged by people who see things with a certain tinted glasses. Just because you desire it to be about the faith doesn't mean it is, the EVIDENCE all points to the fact that its about the Rapture. Feelings lead us down wrong paths in my experience. Men's Traditions do the SAME THING. 

You're going to hang your hat on the above? Paul is pointing to something in particular? Um...yeah. THE rebellion. THE defection. THE revolt. Since when is apostasia defined as a 'snatching away to be taken to anther place'? Hmm??

Pretty significant occurrence when the people of God turn away from God in favor a false god. 

I didn't say the passage was speaking about the faith. You keep bringing that up with your insistence that 'dicessio' means 'forcibly taken from one place to go to another'. 

I'm saying that the history of the definition and usage and context of 'dicessio' was in the political arena when a politician would suddenly diverge from a previous policy to endorse another. But it was actually a bit more serious than that as by way of analogy it would be the same as a politician switching from the Republican to the Democrat party today. So as to the usage of 'dicessio' in early versions of scripture it's in keeping with the idea of revolt, a strong term, while 'dicessio' goes right to the heart of the matter; changing ideology, defection.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

Oh my word! It's clear you just have not looked into this. Apostasia is the word that appears in the text!! No other word. Just APOSTASIA!! 

Talk about super glued to a false teaching...How do you get from "apostasia: defection, revolt" to "episunagógé: a gathering together, an assembly"? 

So according to Ice then, 'defection, revolt' is equivalent to 'a gathering together'. I hope you don't really believe that.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I don't know if you pay attention to the news or history but evil is not 'restrained'. There were just 10 people gunned down in Canada. So much for restraint.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Diaste