By This Shall All Men Know That You Know Me, By the Love You Have One For Another

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 hours ago, Gideon said:

I appreciate your sweet spirit as we work through our misunderstandings. Let me share just one section of scripture to try to show you the side you may not be seeing. It is found in Hebrews 10. 

It starts out with these two powerful statements...

1) By this will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

2) For by one offering He hath perfected for ever those who are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:10,14 

It states clearly as you have indicated Case closed? Back to feeding the ducks? 

Well, let's read the rest of what follows before you head back to the pond.

Let us hold fast to the profession of our faith without wavering (for He is faithful who promised),

and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works,

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as ye see the Day approaching.

For if we sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,

and hath accounted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath despised the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:23-29 

I am not sure exactly how that can be ignored. If we choose after having become Christians to remain in sin, or go back to it, knowing it is sin, with no fight in our heart to resist it, and then be chastened by the Holy Spirit to repent and turn from it, and we still refuse to  listen, we are deceiving ourselves to think we will still hear "Well done" and think ee have eternal life.  This is more than simply not producing fruits and 'having our works burned up but we will be saved, but as though by fire'. This is eternal loss. 

This is being washed clean and deciding we like the mud better. Please note: This man WAS sanctified, saved by the blood of the lamb. But he ignored the multitude of warnings, took his eyes off of Jesus, let sin harden his heart and eventually there was no faith left. Did he end up saved? I think not. 

Now, is it possible somehow he still did. I hope he did. But certainly, I hope you see it may be jumping to conclude I am ruining people by bringing these scriptures into view. There is, despite what sone may try to say, scriptures on both sides of the argument. To conclude I am a teacher of false doctrine is premature at best.

Think of it this way. If OSAS is true, nothing I share will truly affect readers long term, right. However, if the alternative is true, bad things can happen if we blindly ignore the multitude of warnings, let sin overtake us and harden our hearts, for the end CAN, not will, but can mean we havecwhat was given to us taken away, just ss it happened to the servant who made no gain in the parable ofcthe talents. 

Something to mull on while you are feeding the duckies. Quack!

blessings,

Gids

 

 

What is on display here is the continued and unwarranted confusion about Hebrews 10.......The Power Of ONE misunderstood verse that if Believed as some think it should be believed, cancels out hundreds of verses that are so clear , a child can understand them......such as, “ ALL that come to Me through My Son Jesus Christ, I WILL SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST”........ hard to argue against that one, don’t you think? There are many, many  iron- clad verses similar to that one.

 Newbies— PLEASE ......save yourself from years of needless fears, based on nothing but ignorance ....Pray that God give you insight and go to the Video  Section Of Worthy.....George has provided a brilliant video by Tozer that so simply puts to rest this “scary” verse, only the most stubborn people can dismiss it......

Edited April 23, 2020 by Blood Bought 1953

[Alive]

37 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

I'm not interested in what you think is going on, @Alive, nor do I wish to be drawn into the dispute you're embroiled in here. I grasp the Gospel sufficiently; I've never once alluded that we're saved by works nor are we "kept" in salvation by virtue of them... Christ Jesus alone is our Redeemer and Savior. My quotation of the scriptures was completely relevant to the matter I've been writing about in this topic: sanctification, how it relates to loving our neighbor (as well as my brother), and my own experience with this. I'm speaking the truth, not mincing words for the sake of argument. The Lord chose me before I was born to be of service to someone whom you know nothing about.

My point stands: I have no need to be "taught" by men. I've received plenty of that during my lifetime, thanks. As my experience clearly illustrates I understand the difference between obeying the Lord and my own efforts. He is merciful and kind, leading me to mortify my flesh and my way of doing things. 

 

I disagree. We'll leave it at that.  

OK—God bless and keep you always.

[Behold]

 

3 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

An example of what I'm getting at is evident in this comment from @Behold to me earlier in the thread:

Had you bothered to take the time to read my contributions in this topic before posting this ill-conceived response you wouldn't be so misinformed yourself. I understand the difference well and have no need for your "teaching" my friend. I look to God's word, heed the Spirit of the Lord, and listen to those whom He sends, not those who labor to be recognized as teachers. I'm not interested in what you're selling.  

You choose to oppose others on the basis of semantics, accusing us of holding to "salvation by works" time and again in this topic. It's fascinating that when I shared a passage of scripture which addresses what myself and others in this thread have been laboring to explain and defend, your response is "You are misinformed." How would you know? You know nothing about me and your comments are proof. I heed the Lord, not Behold. God bless.

And what am i selling?   Im selling the Blood Atonement and the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross.    Im selling "Jesus saved you and God will keep you saved"...  Philippians 1:6    

IM selling "all that call on the name of the Lord shall be SAVED".   Im selling " by His own BLOOD Christ entered the most holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us".

 Im selling "for this is MY blood of the New Testament, shed for many for the remission of sins"..  Im selling  Jesus:= " in whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of SINS, according to the riches of GOD's Grace".    I sell "the Gift of righteousness",  "Salvation is a GIFT"

Thats what i was called to "sell".  That is all i will ever "sell".

God called me to evangelize , so, i do, in nearly every post or Thread i have written here for 3+ yrs.   I sell The CROSS.  Thats what Paul did, and its what any real believer will ONLY DO.

And by the way..... My context for using the word "selling" means..."PREACHING" or "TEACHING".

  On 4/21/2020 at 2:08 PM,  Gideon said: 

Paul told the Ephesians "Nothing profits but a new creature". Oh that we might believe it and hunger and thirst for God to plant us there.

================================

Now, do you see that?  That is the person you say is only talking about Grace, and how i dont understand it, and that im "selling" something that you are not buying.....

So, listen carefully, that verse he posted is simple Paul defining how being born again, is all that matters, and not our performance.....  That is Philippians 3, defined.    Read it sometime.

Now here it is.., DustyRoads,   The  person who wrote this Thread,  just READ  HIS QUOTE....  He just stated.that he wants God to plant US ALL, as the "new Creature"..    Now did you READ THAT?   I DID.  So, what that is saying is this....."Oh that we might hunger and thirst for God to make us BORN AGAIN".   So, do you see that?   Gideon defined it .. He stated "NEW CREATURE", and that is "new creation IN CHRIST"..  and that is not just semantics "my friend".... as that is The NT TERM for "BORN AGAIN".... So, you are pointing an accusing finger at me, while defending a person who wants us all to eventually be born again.....for God to PLANT US THERE...." NEW CREATURE"....=BORN AGAIN>.   So, that is not semantics, that is a theology that is not even related to Paul, or anyone Here, unless you are not born again.   So, im not waiting to become a "new creature" New Creation in Christ....Im already a new creation in Christ.....Im already born again.. Im already the NT defined "new creature"....  So, if you are not, then Gideon's theology will fit you just fine, but otherwise.......

[dhchristian]

4 hours ago, Behold said:

Now here it is.., DustyRoads,   The  person who wrote this Thread,  just READ  HIS QUOTE....  He just stated.that he wants God to plant US ALL, as the "new Creature"..    Now did you READ THAT?   I DID.  So, what that is saying is this....."Oh that we might hunger and thirst for God to make us BORN AGAIN".   So, do you see that?   Gideon defined it .. He stated "NEW CREATURE", and that is "new creation IN CHRIST"..  and that is not just semantics "my friend".... as that is The NT TERM for "BORN AGAIN".... So, you are pointing an accusing finger at me, while defending a person who wants us all to eventually be born again.....for God to PLANT US THERE...." NEW CREATURE"....=BORN AGAIN>.   So, that is not semantics, that is a theology that is not even related to Paul, or anyone Here, unless you are not born again.   So, im not waiting to become a "new creature" New Creation in Christ....Im already a new creation in Christ.....Im already born again.. Im already the NT defined "new creature"....  So, if you are not, then Gideon's theology will fit you just fine, but otherwise.......

But has God's love been perfected in you yet? God is not finished with us yet, whether you admit it or not. I personally disagree with @Gideon on his understanding of OSAS, as I am a firm believer in the doctrine of Eternal security, But I also know those things are in the Word of God for a reason.... The question is what reason? Perhaps so that we do not fall into complacency and stop Growing in Christ. 

Whether you like to admit it or Not, Faith is journey, a sojourn, Jesus said so in the high priestly prayer Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:17) When we are Born again we receive Instant sanctification, that is Jesus Blood covers all our sins and we receive the righteousness of Christ. (2 Cor.5:21) As we walk with Him we receive Progressive sanctification by the work of the Holy Ghost in us. transforming our old nature into the new nature of His Love perfected in us. 

You need to step back and look at your behavior here, do you think that Gideon is going to listen to you and learn from you the way you comment to him? Are you showing the Love of Christ towards Him? Is this a testimony of Agape love on Display here? What I see here is love waxing cold, accusations against brethren in Christ Jesus, and a total lack of Meekness on your part. Perhaps this is the part you need to experience growth in in your journey? 

For example instead of calling Gideon a heretic and falsely accusing him as such Why not explain to Him in a kind manner why you believe in eternal security. For me personally this comes from the understanding that sin in the life of a Christian comes from Unbelief, all sin is rooted in unbelief In the providence of God, and all Christians are sinners whether they like to admit this or not, as our faith is not complete. Thus Doubt is the enemy of faith and denying the finished work of Christ on the cross and believing in conditional security is nothing more than doubt, which we all have in our journey for we are all sinners. Gideon was probably brought up as a Weslyan??? The weslyans and Baptists like myself have been having this debate for years now and both sides have ample scriptural proof for their viewpoint, Just like the debates between Calvinists and arminians. Both sides have an error that they are standing on in comprehending the truth, the Weslyans misunderstand that these verses are there not to create doubt, but to encourage growth In Christ Jesus, that we should not doubt, but come to full assurance of faith. And the Baptists have fallen into the complacency of thinking they are in need of nothing (the cult of textualism as Tozer calls it), that by thinking because they have the doctrine right they have the assurance down pat. Let me quote Tozer's words again here for you so you can see this.

The error of textualism is not doctrinal. It is far more subtle than that and much more difficult to discover, but its effects are just as deadly. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions.

It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19117&forum=36

I Highly suggest you read the whole article and comprehend what is said therein as it was eye opening to Myself, a fundamentalist Baptist, and I see your theology is very much like mine was at that time. Conditional security is not a heresy, it is a part of our journey that all of us go through to reach full assurance, the doubt is meant to be there that we do not grow complacent and stop growing and rest on our laurels, that we continue to run the race to the finish as Paul Speaks of. This is the right understanding of this debate that has long divided the church, and this is what will lead us to Unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace..... Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (Eph. 4:13-16)

These verses from Ephesians are the key to where we are supposed to be heading...

[Gideon]

13 hours ago, Behold said:

Thank you for finally proving that you believe a born again Christian can lose their salvation..   I wondered how long it would take you to finally just try to TEACH IT, vs, hinting at it in numeorus posts, and a few Threads.

Your theology is certainly your own.  You have combined the judgement seat of Christ with Hell, trying to use a verse written to unsaved Hebrews as your proof that you can lose your salvation.

There is so much wrong with that, theologically,  that its almost impossible to even explain it, much less help you recover from it.

Listen, the reason you have no idea what that verse means or who that verse is talking to that you posted out of context, is because you have no idea what "you are not under the LAW, but UNDER GRACE" means.

See, if you actually understood that Jesus has "removed the curse of the Law from us",  then you would understand that a Christian can't be judged any longer by what has been removed by the Cross of Christ.

"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".... That means the law's authority to judge us as a sinner, has been taken away BY :  Jesus "redeeming us from the CURSE of the LAW"... 

Now lets look at Hebrews..

Paul is preaching to unbelieving Hebrews.  He is preaching the Gospel to them, and they are rejecting their Messiah.  This is why he tells them that there remains no more sacrifice for sin if they do this.... As how can there be any, if you reject it?

Consider, Reader,..., its one thing to be born again, and its another thing to receive, by me preaching Jesus to you, the "knowledge of  THE TRUTH"......as these are 2 different things....   Who is THE TRUTH?   That is Jesus, who said,  "im the Way, THE TRUTH and the life".... So, these unsaved Hebrews have been shown who THE TRUTH IS, and they have still "trodden underfoot" this message of Grace, and in doing so, they have "crucified Christ AFRESH", just as if He was there, and they just nailed Him back up on the Cross = by their CHRIST REJECTION.   Remember Reader, its not the believers who hung Christ on those Nails......its UNBELIEF.

Also, these verses in Hebrews  Chapters 4, 6, and 10, describe these HEBREWS as "tasting the heavenly GIFT"...    And that is not the same as EATING THE BREAD.  See, its one thing to hear and consider, but its FAITH THAT BELIEVES, and that is to EAT... its not to "TASTE"...    So,  Gideon, you left that one out.   And so, let me explain it.    "Signs are for the Jews" and "Jews require a SIGN".... This is 1st Corinthians Ch 1 and Ch 14....  Paul is a JEWISH Apostle who has the "signs of an Apostle". 2nd Corinthians 12:12.  .  And so, he has let these HEBREWS (Jews)  "taste the heavenly GIFT"...>"+GIFT...."GIFT"...the Gifts of the Spirit. (9)  He has performed apostolic SIGNS before them, and they have "tasted the heavenly GIFT"..... 9 GIFTS of the Spirit....."SIGNS of an APOSTLE"........ and still they Reject Their MESSIAH.....>"willfully sin".

So, what you have here, is Unsaved Hebrews, spitting back at Paul their Christ rejection, AFTER he has preached the Truth of the Gospel, with "SIGNS following"....(tasted the heavenly Gift), and they have willfully sinned by rejecting their Messiah.    Jesus is the GIFT of God.  And you can taste this gift without receiving this GIFT.  You can know all about Christ,(taste) and not "believe on the Lord and be SAVED". (eat) 

Also note that Paul would not be preaching the Gospel to the Born again, as the Born again do not need to be saved more then once, and certainly this Apostle who delivered the Gospel of Grace into the BIBLE would know that, of course.   

Brother, my heart is sad for you. You are totally missing what I am saying. 

blessings, 

Gideon

[Debp]

On 4/21/2020 at 12:08 PM, Gideon said:

Paul told the Ephesians "Nothing profits but a new creature". Oh that we might believe it and hunger and thirst for God to plant us there.

You say for God to plant us there, as in a future event.  I'm sure others will agree with me, that we are already a new creation in Christ.   Of course, there is a progressive work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit in our lives.   But we are in the here and now already a new creation in Christ.   

 

Also, speaking about Christian love....we must first love ourselves in order to truly love others.   We cannot give what we do not have.   And the ability to love ourselves comes from our being forgiven and accepted in the Beloved.   We know Him and rest in Him.

[Heleadethme]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:30 PM, Alive said:

1Sam. 9:16 “Tomorrow about this time I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him commander over My people Israel, that he may save My people from the hand of the Philistines; for I have looked upon My people, because their cry has come to Me.”

 

2Sam. 3:18 Now then, do it! For the LORD has spoken of David, saying, “By the hand of My servant David, I will save My people Israel from the hand of the Philistines and the hand of all their enemies.’ ”

 

2Sam. 5:2 Also, in time past, when Saul was king over us, you were the one who led Israel out and brought them in; and the LORD said to you, “You shall shepherd My people Israel, and be ruler over Israel.’ ”

 

2Sam. 7:7 Wherever I have moved about with all the children of Israel, have I ever spoken a word to anyone from the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, “Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ ” ’

 

2Sam. 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, ¹¹ since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. Also the LORD tells you that He will make you a house.

 

1Kings 6:13 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake My people Israel.”

 

1Kings 8:16 “Since the day that I brought My people Israel out of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there; but I chose David to be over My people Israel.’

 

1Kings 14:7 Go, tell Jeroboam, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘Because I exalted you from among the people, and made you ruler over My people Israel,

 

1Kings 16:2 “Inasmuch as I lifted you out of the dust and made you ruler over My people Israel, and you have walked in the way of Jeroboam, and have made My people Israel sin, to provoke Me to anger with their sins,

 

1Chr. 11:2 Also, in time past, even when Saul was king, you were the one who led Israel out and brought them in; and the LORD your God said to you, “You shall shepherd My people Israel, and be ruler over My people Israel.’ ”

 

1Chr. 17:7 Now therefore, thus shall you say to My servant David, “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘I took you from the sheepfold, from following the sheep, to be ruler over My people Israel.

 

1Chr. 17:9 Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, ¹⁰ since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel. Also I will subdue all your enemies. Furthermore I tell you that the LORD will build you a house.

 

2Chr. 6:5 “Since the day that I brought My people out of the land of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there, nor did I choose any man to be a ruler over My people Israel. ⁶ Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may be there, and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.’

 

Jer. 7:12   “But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I set My name at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel.

 

Jer. 12:14   Thus says the LORD: “Against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israel to inherit—behold, I will pluck them out of their land and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.

 

Jer. 23:13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:

They prophesied by Baal

And caused My people Israel to err.

 

Jer. 30:3 For behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, “that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the LORD. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’ ”

 

Ezek. 14:9   “And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the LORD have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.

 

Ezek. 25:14 I will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hand of My people Israel, that they may do in Edom according to My anger and according to My fury; and they shall know My vengeance,” says the Lord GOD.

 

Ezek. 36:8 But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are about to come.

 

Ezek. 36:12 Yes, I will cause men to walk on you, My people Israel; they shall take possession of you, and you shall be their inheritance; no more shall you bereave them of children.”

 

Ezek. 38:14   “Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, “Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it?

 

Ezek. 38:16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes.”

 

Ezek. 39:7 So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

 

Dan. 9:20   Now while I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God,

 

Amos 7:8 And the LORD said to me, “Amos, what do you see?”

And I said, “A plumb line.”

Then the Lord said:

“Behold, I am setting a plumb line

In the midst of My people Israel;

I will not pass by them anymore.

Amos 7:15 Then the LORD took me as I followed the flock,

And the LORD said to me,

“Go, prophesy to My people Israel.’

Amos 8:2 And He said, “Amos, what do you see?”

So I said, “A basket of summer fruit.”

Then the LORD said to me:

“The end has come upon My people Israel;

I will not pass by them anymore.

Amos 9:14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;

They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.

Israel is an ensample for the church........type/shadow/allegory of the church.  And we are told to take warning from the things that happened to her. 

[Behold]

14 hours ago, Gideon said:

I would like to make  a point here. This post was made on the need for love to be poured out over us all, myself included and at the head of the line. Yet it did not take four posts on before accusations were being thrown out on the OSAS controversy. 

Actually it was your THREAD here,  @Gideon   that caused the strife .

Same as your last one caused the same.

You clearly wrote that the born again here, or the born again in general, are "waiting for the "new creature"..... And that is the title the New Testament clearly  gives  ONLY TO the Born Again.   So, for the 4th time, i'll point out that you have told us that we are "waiting for the NEW CREATURE",  when in fact non of the Born again here, or anywhere in the known universe are waiting to be born again.

Also, there is no "controversy" regarding the Blood Atonement.  = (OSAS)....... There is no "controversy" regarding the fact that God thru Christ saves a person and He Himself keeps a person saved.   Philippians 1:6

The "controversy" is in the mind and teaching of all religious heretics who try to teach that the Blood of Jesus, the very Redemption of God Himself, is "temporary", and not eternal.  As all heretics teach that you can lose what is eternal, "the GIFT of Salvation", "the Gift of Righteousness"...as heretics teach that the Blood Atonement is a temporary situation that is only maintained by the person, and not by the Grace of God.  And to teach this  in public is to literally reject the finished work of Jesus on the Cross....in PUBLIC.

Many preach this false message, and Paul says this about them...  Galatians 1:8 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

7 hours ago, dhchristian said:

But has God's love been perfected in you yet? God is not finished with us yet,

@Gideon

 

For example instead of calling Gideon a heretic and falsely accusing him as such Why not explain to Him in a kind manner

@dhchristian,

 

Listen, none of us will be totally perfected into the "image of Christ", till we meet God and get our New Body.   So, any one day old believer understands that we as disciples of Christ are a work in progress.  None of us are the "full stature of Christ".  What we are to do is "finish our course" and earnestly strive to be completely sold out to God and Christ.  To come to a place where we are theologically sound as diamonds, perfectly in tune with the Spirit of God, and end up like Paul who said...."it is not I who live anymore, but its Christ who lives in me".... So, im working on that for quite a while, while God is working on me while I YIELD.

Next....

You have not spent 20 yrs of your life dealing with heretics.  I have.   I have dealt with every type.  From Catholics to JW's, Mormons, and the rest of the assorted hybrid religious scripture twisters who pollute forums and try to subvert the faith of real born again Christians.   See, you have to understand a vital point.   A heretic is not here to help. They are here to cause strife, chaos, and try to infect others with their heresy.  They are on every Christian forum and in thousands of pulpits trying to replace the Cross with SELF.    With SELF EFFORT.  And if they can get you going in that direction, they'll then lead you to believe that if you dont keep doing those works, then you'll end up in HELL.....That you've lost your salvation..... That is their GOAL !!    So, that is what is called "subverting someone's FAITH"..  And Paul pronounced a curse on these people, and they are under it.  

Listen, READER..... God does not call any believer to accept or allow Grace Denying Cross Denying theology.  So, when someone who is a religious subversive shows up then God requires us to "contend for the faith"...which is "justification by faith"..  We are to resist the heretics.   We can and should be as kind as we can be to them., but, as Paul said, "as much as lies within you"...  So, that does not mean to be a doormat as some silly effort to prove you have "love".  

Reader.....You will discover that if you try to help a heretic "see" GRACE as ETERNAL, it will not happen.  They can only see the Blood Atonement as Temporay, depending totally on you keeping yourself SAVED.    Paul said these people are "subverted IN THEMSELVES".....and they will resist the Truth.....  Titus 3:9-11 ..... They will NOT accept it.   This is why Jude in Chapter 1 tells you to CONTEND for the Faith....against the Heretic.   That word does not mean anything except RESIST...

----

con·tend

/kənˈtend/

 

verb

 

1. 1. 

   struggle to surmount (a  danger).

    

    

    
2. 2. 

   assert something strongly as a position in an argument.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Behold

[Gideon]

I want to clear up a big misconception as to what I believe about the security of the believer. 

I absolutely believe that a believer in Christ has eternal security. As an old pastor of mine answered when asked that question. "Just stay a believer!" LOL.

When we became Christians, our eyes stopped searching for light, for life, in other places. We found Jesus and our searching ceased.  We focused on the true light of the world. We heard His words and believed them, and fell in love with Jesus. He was all we needed. And we were right. 

His goal, His will for us is that we grow up into Him in all things..... an ever deepening relationship!  The faith we began with is not to be the total extent of our faith. We are destined to grow in faith as our relationship deepens, amen? 

But what happens if, for whatever reason, we do not seek a relationship with Him any longer? If we simply rely on our initial meeting? If we go backwards, take our eyes totally off Christ, does this mean we  are no longer saved? No. Absolutely not. But, and this is a big one.... we are not safe, for the enemy of our souls is out to make sure we do not get back in relationship again. Where is the safety found? Under His wing, in relationship with Him.

This is why we are given the Word, to instruct us in how to grow in our relationship. This is why all the warnings are given, so that we do not stray off the highway of holiness. This is why God tells us of our need to hear His sweet voice and to obey it. Why is obedience necessary?  It is simply because we neglect Him and disobey Him, when we sin, a hard shell begins to form over our hearts. God does not feel as close. Thus, he brings conviction within us, where our own hearts are telling us we need to stop the sin and get right with Him again. 

 If we listen, and return to Him, our peace returns. But if we continue on, walking in disobedience, conviction from the Lord is "translated" by the enemy into  condemnation. Our own hearts begin to condemn us even if He does not. Can we repent? Absolutely! But we must understand, as believers, we are yoked to Him. we go where He goes. Our relationship is not ever an initial prayer. We are destined to KNOW Him! Glory! 

And when He tells us to obey Him through the still small voice inside every one of His children, are the things He asks of us hard to do? Not at all. His commandments are not grievous. Whatever He aks of us, He provides the ability to do!  If Christ is in us, we can do all things, amen? 

But we must finally see that the security of our salvation hinges not on our one prayer when we wanted a relationship with God, but on whether or not our heart still wants relationship now. Jesus IS our salvation and He wants us close to Him, Him in us and us in Him. One.  That, guys is our security. Wow! 

God, fully wanting to enjoy our presence, know that He is our security, because He loves us,  He will chasten us if we begin to stray. If we stop drawing near Him, stop paying attention to Him, because He is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother, He spanks us. 

But what happens if we choose to brush off the chastenings? Do we not see? God longs for a relationship with us. He knows satan will tempt us, so He provides a way of escape so we will not fall. He knows satan will accuse,provides us with a shield of faith to stop any arrows the enemy shoots at us. Warnings are given to us, not to scare us but to make sure we keep our eyes on Him, to stay in relationship with Him. If we ignore them,  He then lets His Spirit chasten us, spank us, so we can rescue ourselves from the snare we are falling into.

 Guys, this is where we find our security. God has provided a network of security measures to make sure we stay close to Him, under His wing, safe from the attacks of the enemy of our souls. 

If we choose to ignore all these wonderful measures God has given us, and plunge on into our rebellion, Hecwill then let the hounds of Heaven bring us to our senses. Our own sins will reprove us. They will eventually lead us to the hog trough, the place our own sins reprove us, not to hurt us but to wake us up to the danger we are facing.
 Is such a man still saved? Yes, but the relationship is on life support. Danger here is great. The time to get right with the Lord is not after a few more sins, a little more wandering but NOW. Here we still can be restored. But what if the hardness on our heart has continued to grow as we have continued in rebellion and unbelief? Can that man.... warned, chastened, ignoring the ways of escape in times of temptation, refusing to wear his armor, continuing on in his rebellion even when his own sins are beating  upon him.... can thst man lose his salvation? ABSOLUTELY. 

Is a believer totally secure in his salvation? Yes. Just stay a believer. Stay in relationship, and always look to deepen it. The God of the universe wants to have a Father/son relationship with us! Amazing God. 

There is one more security measure though that we have all been ignorant of, and I was at the head of the list.  It is the biggest security blessing  of all, and by finally seeing it, we will be amazed at how secure we truly are. It is putting on our new man, and is the message God gave me 13+ years ago that rescued me from my own many  strayings. 

I will address that in another post here later today. This one ought to stir the pot enough for the time being. LOL.

One last thing. I just wanted to tell everyone, and I do mean that.... everyone.... that I dearly love them.  i understand when someone hears something they do not agree  with that they see as dangerous to others, it is commendable to stand against it. God certainly does not want every wind of doctrine to be allowed to blow through His people. However, it needs to be done in love, lest the one standing firm for the truth is tempted to act inappropriately.  Some have disagreed with me yet with a smile. Others have disagreed with me but have looked for, and hopefully seem some good in what I share and thus have acted with grace. Some have done neither. 

Nonetheless, it changes nothing as to my heart. I love every single one of you, even of you withstand me greatly. I get it. I really do. And accept that with what I have been asked to share, I do it with patience. If you would have known me 14 years ago, I suspect all of you would have felt like Addy expressed. In person, you would not have like me much, lol.  (Forgive me, Addy. I love your spirit and spunk, moxed on with a kindness that is very evident and a good sense of humor).  

I was a legalist. Repent, repent, repent! I was that way for a looooong time. I served a hard God who reaped where He had not sown. Personslly, I was weighed down with trying to please Him and never felt He was. If I read 10 chapters a night from my Bible, I should have read twenty. Heck, when I cut my lawn, I was more interested in beautifying MY kingdom more than his. God's honest truth. 

I was of all men most miserable, the poster boy for Romans 7, and longed to find out how to stop being a slave to sin that constantly re-hardened my heart. I wanted to do good, to be kind, to love those who saw things differently than I did. 

Oh, I had the first part of the message. Repent. Do we need to repent? Yes, we do. But without the second part of the message, the first part made me of all men most miserable. I was the wretched man in Romans 7. 

I was determined to heed the warnings. I was constantly chastened by the Spirit. I stayed in the word. I never missed church. I became a home pastor. I tried with all that was within me to serve Him, to die to self. And yet, I failed, and boy, did I.

But that night thirteen years ago changed everything, for God changed  me. Thank God. Of course, all the people around me thanked God as well, lol. 

So what was the second part of the message God would have me share? I will, God willing, share that later today. I have a deck to build. ?

May God richly bless all of you today, and may your eyes fall upon the one who has promised to keep you from falling, no matter what it takes to do so.

Gideon