BIG, BIG NEWS: RESURRECTION AND RAPTURE ON MARCH 14, 2023?

[The Light]

6 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

The Light (you are as a true Christian), here's how I see it from Dan 8:

The Little Horn

⁹ Out of one of them came forth a rather small horn [the Jewish Antichrist comes out of the 10-nation Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), which includes Russia] which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Beautiful Land. [He comes against Israel.] ¹⁰It grew up to the host of heaven and caused some of the host and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. [He kills some Israelis.] ¹¹ It even magnified itself to be equal with the Commander of the host; and it removed the regular sacrifice from Him [He displays himself to be God in the Temple and stops the sacrifices.], and the place of His sanctuary was thrown down. [This stops the Temple Service.] ¹² And on account of transgression the host will be given over to the horn along with the regular sacrifice; [I believe the transgression is the Temple Service/sacrifices, because they are a rejection of the sacrifice of Christ.] and it will fling truth to the ground and perform its will and prosper. ¹³ Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror [Again, the Temple Service/sacrifices are transgression and a horror to God.], so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?” ¹⁴ He said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.” [The Temple Service will last 2300 days (they may start May 8, 2020) and then will come 1335 days (chapter 12) until the final victory of Christ arrives, properly restoring the Temple.]

Hi Clive,

Thanks for the explanation. You mention 1335 days as the time Christ arrives for the final victory. I don't believe that the 1335 day is when Christ returns for His final victory. I believe that is referring to 1335 days when Christ returns for the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Based on the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars of Rev 6, Matt 24 and Mark 13 I believe this gathering occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days just prior to the wrath of God.

I see things more like this:

There is a pretrib rapture when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then God keeps His promise to Israel. I believe that during the 70 week of Daniel part of Israel has it's blindness removed and that would be the 12 tribes across the earth. (not the nation of Israel, they will remain blind a little longer. The nation of Israel will remain on earth during the wrath of God but will be in a place of protection) We see 144,000 first fruits which are a guarantee of a harvest from the 12 tribes across the earth.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Based on Dan 12, I think that the daily sacrifice will be taken away on day 1185. I think the abomination of desolation is set up 1290 days later on day 2475. Then Jesus will return on the last day of the week, day 2520(1335 days after the sacrifice is taken away). The great tribulation is 45 days long, 2520-2475.

I also think that there is a difference between the abomination of desolation and the transgression of desolationwhen the Temple is cast down.

Dan 8

¹¹ Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

¹² And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

After Christ returns for the gathering of the Church from heaven who were raptured pre trib and the 12 tribes across the earth who are the seed of the woman, and have had their removed blindness removed I think there are still 1260 days AFTER the 70th week, the time of Jacobs trouble is over.

Dan 12

⁶ And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

⁷ And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Then I think Christ returns with His armies.

Just some things to consider brother.

 

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

And then you violate your own lament about me having preconceptions about you. How do you know I think I'm right and everyone else is wrong when you don't know me?

And for the record I just read and repeat. I have no knowledge, God is the way the truth and the life. Thats where all my hope consists. 

That's your tone and your words, Diaste. Read what you wrote. I'm not violating my "lament," I'm pointing out that you come across as having the truth in these matters and that no one else with a different view than yours, could possibly be right. I don't do that. I have my views, but I am charitable to others who view things differently. That's my only point. Actually, this post of yours is much more charitable and I thank you for that. Let's move on from there.

If you would like to tell me the main points of where you think that I am wrong, I would be happy to read them and interact with you. Or, if you want to refer me to somewhere where you have written your views, I'll read them.

Charitably,

Clive

Ps. The only reason that I said that I had doubts that Justin's recommended video series would change my mind, is that I've reached my views over many years and with much input and didn't expect to see anything that I hadn't already considered. That doesn't mean that my mind is closed. It is "made up" in the present, but I'm still open to being challenged to reconsider things or go in a new direction. As I wrote, Dr. Heiser was dogmatic about very little, stuff I also agree with.

[Diaste]

26 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

If you would like to tell me the main points of where you think that I am wrong, I would be happy to read them and interact with you. Or, if you want to refer me to somewhere where you have written your views, I'll read them.

If you hold to a pretrib rapture view literally everything that follows from that is incorrect. 

[The Light]

24 minutes ago, Diaste said:

If you hold to a pretrib rapture view literally everything that follows from that is incorrect. 

How is it that those that see the pretrib rapture can't see the timeline and those that can see the some of the timeline can't see the pretrib rapture?  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[Diaste]

27 minutes ago, The Light said:

How is it that those that see the pretrib rapture can't see the timeline and those that can see the some of the timeline can't see the pretrib rapture?  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Correct. But that would mean any 'hour' in a literal sense. It could also mean a season or an age, which I believe is your point. 

But that holds true for pretrib as well. You think it must be pretrib. That's an hour when you think SO and it must be an hour when you think NOT.

But the example is in scripture and its day or night. We won't know exactly the day and hour but that's the only restriction. The year,  month and even week could be known.

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

45 minutes ago, The Light said:

Just some things to consider brother.

The Light, I know that I don't have everything that will happen from now until 2030 figured out, but here is my guess right now:

2020 Temple Service/Sacrifices begin for 2300 days; 4th Temple may start before 2023 or after--I'm not sure, though I expect before. I think that a regional Mideast war will enable this.

2023 Resurrection and rapture/Moses and Elijah descend to Jerusalem to preach Christ for 1260 days/the Jewish Antichrist comes against Israel but makes a covenant

2026 1/2 The Jewish Antichrist kills Moses and Elijah, puts a stop to the Temple Service/Sacrifices and displays himself as God in the 4th Temple, now completed. He tramples Jerusalem for 42 months. He begins his attack on the remnant of saved Israelis (144,000 celibate men and probably a similar number of women and children; or figurative). It appears that they flee to the wilderness and are nourished (manna?) by the Lord for 1290 days

2030 At the end of 1290 days, the remnant of saved Israelis are still protected by the Lord. Perhaps the Lord will be on the scene with them in the last 45 days, since the final victory seems to be at the end of 1335 days.

The Light, if you could put your scheme in a chart or table, I could understand it better. I do think that a 7-year period, no more and no less, is involved once Moses and Elijah descend to Jerusalem.

 

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

If you hold to a pretrib rapture view literally everything that follows from that is incorrect. 

Diaste, I'll take that as a "no," that you do not want to interact openly.

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

10 minutes ago, Diaste said:

But the example is in scripture and its day or night. We won't know exactly the day and hour but that's the only restriction. The year,  month and even week could be known.

Diaste, you're right! For example, I don't "know" the day and hour of the resurrection and rapture or the day and hour of the final victory of Christ. But if the regular sacrifices start on May 8 and continue, I can make a good "guess" at them. If you want to leave it to just years, my guesses on those 2 years are 2023 and 2030.

[The Light]

21 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

 

Quote

2020 Temple Service/Sacrifices begin for 2300 days; 4th Temple may start before 2023 or after--I'm not sure, though I expect before. I think that a regional Mideast war will enable this.

I think I confused the issue by mentioning a 4th Temple. What you are referring to is the 3rd Temple. The reason that I mentioned a 4th Temple is because of these verses.

Dan 8

Dan 8

¹³ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

¹⁴ And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

I think after the third Temple is built, it will also be destroyed. In this destruction, there will not be one stone left upon another. What Jesus was referring to in the 1st part of Matthew 24 has never been fullfilled.

So the third Temple will have an abomination of Desolation and the Temple will be cast down.

Dan 8

¹¹ Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

You know the verse that says the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Everyone is running around claiming that it is a Roman because the second Temple was destroyed by the Romans. The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the third Temple.

So it sounds to me like 2300 days after the third temple is destroyed (and event that has not happened yet) The sanctuary shall be cleansed.

 

 

[Diaste]

48 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Diaste, you're right! For example, I don't "know" the day and hour of the resurrection and rapture or the day and hour of the final victory of Christ. But if the regular sacrifices start on May 8 and continue, I can make a good "guess" at them. If you want to leave it to just years, my guesses on those 2 years are 2023 and 2030.

That's predicated on the assumption the daily sacrifice is the sole indicator. 

There are other indicators that must harmonize with all the other indicators.

The rise of the beast, the 2 witnesses, midpoint, events of the seals and trumps.

Joel says all the green grass is burned, the daily sacrifice is taken away and the day of the Lord is NEAR. That's a clear timeline.