Tearing Down Strongholds is not easy but they will come down....

[Behold]

43 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

. Thinking Like @Behold thinks that because I have the doctrine right I am right. 

 

 

Im only right because Paul is right.

His Doctrine created about 75% of the NT, and after Jesus's blood made me Righteous, Paul's doctrine made me CLEAR.

I only do what he does, regarding his approach to serving. So, if you think he is complacent, then.....

Paul said..>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

Done deal. 

[Alive]

I am not sure how ill will would even be a consideration.

Wilderness? Afraid? I don’t take your meaning.

[Blood Bought 1953]

18 hours ago, dhchristian said:

And I think what your doing is making resting in the Gospel a work that is needed for salvation that we must do in order to be saved. Think about that..... Your hypothetical person that is 99% resting in the gospel is disqualified for not resting 1% of the time. Your understanding of the doctrine of rest has become flawed and has become just another work like Sabbath keeping. 

In Other words, You have made the doctrine of Grace an excuse not to grow in Grace, which is what complacency is, A Place where we stop growing and learning and repenting and learning some more, Till we reach the fulness of Christ. Basically you think you have arrived at the Truth, when you have just started the race. I am Encouraging  you to Mount up on wings of eagles and run and not grow weary (Isa 40:31) The Journey begins with Resting in the Gospel of Grace, As it is no longer we who lives, But Christ who lives in us.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:17-18) 

  

 

The Gospel , as we all know, means “ Good News.” What is this Good News? It consists of  two simple Facts: Jesus died for our sins. Jesus rose from the Grave.Paul revealed through his role as Jesus Spokesman  after Jesus returned to Heaven, that if we simply Believe these two things for our Salvation, we will be saved.

This simple Promise from Jesus for Eternal Life is really good news in many ways for what it is not! First of all, it is NOT the Law. No more having to sweat out our Salvation by trying to adhere to 613 commandments that even Paul confessed that neither he nor his Fathers could obey 24/7. So how are you doing with that impossible system that was the way Of Salvation Before we were blessed with the Good News?

The Gospel ,Sadly, is Believed by many to be a “ call for action”......The Gospel never asks, much less, demands that the Sinner ( you and I ) “ turn over a new leaf” , that is, make improvements in our behavior in order to be saved

The Gospel is not a call to Repentance in the sense that we must show sorrow  and regret or even make restitution  for past grievances  and sins. It does not demand a promise to “ do better” in the future.

The Gospel does not demand that one give up your sins and break old habits and force yourself to form new ones.A person can do all of these laudatory things , but if you do not Believe what is Proclaimed by Jesus in 1Cor15:1-4, you May have become a more “ Moral” man, but you a LOST Moral Man!

In the final analyses, Jesus did not give us a New Rule to obey by revealing the Gospel  to Paul. The Gospel is NOT a RULE to be obeyed...it is Promise Of Jesus to be BELIEVED.....

Nobody at any time has ever come up with Something like this......Every religion ever dreamed up by the mind of man requires that the adherents must “ DO” something. Not so with the Gospel and  Christianity! The Gospel stems from the Love Of God and from the sheer Mercy Of God—- all that is Required Of Sinful Man  is to Turn To God with Faith in His Gospel and he is Saved. Forever .

This Gospel is a Gospel Of Pure Grace.Why is that Paramount to realize.....examine this Promise  Of Jesus very closely —- there is absolutely no room for Human Merit. It simply brushes away any of man’s pretensions to goodness or Morality.Human Pride is offended my this notion.Man wants to Earn his Salvation. “ Look what I did for you God! Give me what I deserve!” They are the ones that will hear the most horrifying Words ever spoken—— “ Depart from me, I never knew you!”

There is more.........

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

9 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

@Behold accused Gideon of wrongdoing "in every thread" early on in this topic. That's a broad brush.

He's created a public spectacle so it's only fair to review what he's done to other members in this topic. Here are some: 

He accused Gideon of purveying a lie fomented by Satan (page 2).
He accused me of fixating upon "works." (page 3)
The quote above, "in every thread," was a reply to Gideon (page 4.)
He accused Gideon of ignoring his questions for the past 3.5 weeks (page 5)
He accused Gideon of "bad theology" (page 8)
Laughably, he accused Gideon of teaching "faith saves you" (page 9)
He used something I posted to horizontally accuse Gideon of posting "dark material" (page 10)
He resumed his attack on me, this time by characterizing what I wrote as "works can save you" (page 10)
He accused dhchristian of being "ignorant" (page 11)
He accused dhchristian of casting him as "complacent" (page 11)
He accused dhchristian of having "a huge issue with the grace of God" (page 12)

Of course he's free to backtrack and edit his posts accordingly but the point I'm making is a simple one: Behold has dished it out so why is he complaining when others take issue with his manner? 


 

 

I think just about all of Behold’s Accusations are Spot-On......

[Sower]

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Answered in kind, meaning I can answer you with a similar baseless question. I Was trying to show you how fruitless your question was. There was no fear of answering the question, But rather an effort to get you to ask a more poignant question on the facts as opposed to Trying to pin doubt in the conversation. I Stand by My Claim, as the One who teaches me is the Holy Ghost who shows me these things, and I trust His teaching and revelation. 

I Have now backed it up here, using Tozer to show you that what I am trying to express is an endemic problem in all of evangelical Christianity. Complacency is a real Problem and it can be seen if one knows what to look for and if you actually take the time to read the links you will see as well. You See, It was Back in 2007 that I realized my faith was in a Rut and rotting away that I turned back to Him In repentance and He changed me, and is continuing to change me. @Behold has taught here in the past in his comments that we are "SaveD" with an emphasis on the D, But the truth is that He continues to save us each and every day from ourselves and our foolish hearts. The Moment you say faith is a one time event and you have arrived is when the rot starts to set in, and You are in Complacency. For me it was just like @Behold In that I had all the doctrines right, but not the heart of growth and learning and continuing in the faith. Thus I point the finger at myself before making the claim to others, encouraging them that there is growth and blessings to come if You return to the cross with the same heart with which you were saved and Live that way continually, learning and growing in the faith as a little child. I write what I write from a heart that wants to share those blessings with others that he has shown me that they too can find this comfort and Joy by Knowing he is with us, Loving us, disciplining us, and allowing us to grow into the fulness of Christ.

But obviously some are opposed to this here, the question is where do you stand.  We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross, But that does not mean God is finished working in us, But we continually are growing in the faith. I Have been accused of being a legalist and Calvinist and all other manner of Labels for what I am saying here But the truth is I am None of those, I am Christian who knows in part, and there are other Christians who know in Part, and when we come together in the unity of the Spirit, we shall fully Know th length depth breadth and width of the Love of God for all of us. 

 

Complacency;    "a feeling of smug or uncritical satisfaction with oneself or one's achievements."
(I'm too busy for that, too critical of myself, think too much, perfectionist, controlling, never satisfied concerning work)

"You See, It was Back in 2007 that I realized my faith was in a Rut and rotting away that I turned back to Him In repentance and He changed me"
and Amen!
"I had all the doctrines right, but not the heart of growth and learning and continuing in the faith"

To start, DH, God changed me the day I was saved, in the late seventies, in my spiritual position, and in actuality!! I did not have to turn back to Him.

"Thus I point the finger at myself before making the claim to others, encouraging them that there is growth and blessings to come if You return to the cross with the same heart with which you were saved and Live that way continually, learning and growing in the faith as a little child.  (called first love )

I never left the cross, DH. It has been a continual growth for my wife and myself for forty plus years. As babes in Christ, we both had the fire of the first love,
and still do. That 'fire' may not always raise to such great heights as before , but it burns regularly, faithfully, and has not diminished.
We are in it for the long haul, and not just a moment of emotions on the mountaintop.

"I write what I write from a heart that wants to share those blessings with others that he has shown me that they too can find this comfort and Joy by Knowing he is with us, Loving us, disciplining us, and allowing us to grow into the fullness of Christ"

I have found that 'comfort and joy' from the start, from the beginning, and through the yrs of trials and troubles, struggling to raise our children, home school them as their faithful stewards, serving our part in the local body of believers, and knowing/trusting He was always there, making straight our path.

But obviously some are opposed to this here, the question is where do you stand.

You have caused me to not 'see' your message by your previous reply's. I was a sorta stunned.

"I Answered in kind, meaning I can answer you with a similar baseless question"

And what was my 'baseless' question?
"What if you were wrong?
" About how you characterized everybody on the forum, assuming they all have this "complacency' problem, that you can "see". 
This 'question' was meant to maybe cause you to consider. Could you be wrong about making an all inclusive statement.
Could there be some, more than you know, who have been fighting the good fight, faithful all their born again years,yet not given to preaching.
There are many many believers who have kept the faith, and battle the enemy, the spiritual enemy, and not each other.
It hurts to hear so much down on the body of believers lately on this forum. There doesn't seem to be much edification.
I may not agree with some of your interpretations, but I understand your zeal. You want others to have what you found.
I'm simply trying to tell you, there are many out there who have already found it, and live it, as do you.

"We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross,
But that does not mean God is finished working in us,
But we continually are growing in the faith".
And Amen again!

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
I have grown over the years to be so very very thankful, and so grateful, to my God.
I am blessed DH, beyond measure, and I don't know why.
Our family, children, spouses, grandchildren, are all now my brothers and sisters, for eternity.
I am also the richest man I know.
And I'm not complacent, concerning God!.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sower]

13 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

Are you a bot, @Sower? Surely you aren't because each member of Worthy had to answer that question to the satisfaction of the administrators before graduating from "Newbie" status.  

Where do these words come from then? Are they the product of a keyboard or do they come from the heart? The words of the Lord disagree with the stance you're assuming:

"Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders." (Matthew 15: 17-19)

Thanks Dusty, I appreciate your encouragement, brother......

[Blood Bought 1953]

19 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi BB, You reference an interesting passage which prompts me to ask your thoughts about the sins that beset the saved, their causes, effects, consequences and penalties. I need to log off for the night otherwise I would start a new thread on this subject, but I look forward to your response and further related discussion.

Yours in Christ, Michael37. 

 

Greetings, Michael......I will try my best to share my thoughts with you....

Causes......The Old Sin Nature.....the World, The Flesh and the Devil

Effects.....Chastisement, loss of Fellowship

Consequences...premature death,expelled from the Church.....never a loss of Salvation

Penalties.....see the above...

any questions?  Lol......

 

 

[Behold]

 

11 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

@Behold accused Gideon of wrongdoing "in every thread" early on in this topic. That's a broad brush.

He's created a public spectacle so it's only fair to review what he's done to other members in this topic. Here are some: 

He accused Gideon of purveying a lie fomented by Satan (page 2).
He accused me of fixating upon "works." (page 3)
The quote above, "in every thread," was a reply to Gideon (page 4.)
He accused Gideon of ignoring his questions for the past 3.5 weeks (page 5)
He accused Gideon of "bad theology" (page 8)
Laughably, he accused Gideon of teaching "faith saves you" (page 9)
He used something I posted to horizontally accuse Gideon of posting "dark material" (page 10)
He resumed his attack on me, this time by characterizing what I wrote as "works can save you" (page 10)
He accused dhchristian of being "ignorant" (page 11)
He accused dhchristian of casting him as "complacent" (page 11)
He accused dhchristian of having "a huge issue with the grace of God" (page 12)

Of course he's free to backtrack and edit his posts accordingly but the point I'm making is a simple one: Behold has dished it out so why is he complaining when others take issue with his manner? 


 

Trying to shield someone who teaches that you can lose your salvation, is not a good situation. @DustyRoad

Also, Why would i "backtrack".

I agree with what you wrote, for the most part.

I'm happy to be found on a Christian Forum, pointing out when someone teaches that you can "lose your salvation"..

Im here to promote Grace, not deny its eternal effect.

Umm, regarding Dhchristian saying that many of us are complacent, well, a few of us have responded that he's accused....so, be sure to go and find those pages and post them also.

Otherwise.  i think we're good here.

And just so you know.. Im generally the first one here for the last 4 yrs to spotlight someone who comes to the forum to teach that you can lose your salvation.

If you start teaching it, i'll be right there, and then you can talk about that, if you like.

And if Gideon comes tomorrow, the day after, ect.... with another Thread or post which teaches that you can lose your salvation, i'l be on that one as well....a lot.

And, if you like, you can copy all my responses to him or  to anyone who teaches that lie,  and post them all over.

I'd appreciate that very much if you would.

 

thx again, 

 

<B><

Edited April 30, 2020 by Behold

[Blood Bought 1953]

52 minutes ago, Sower said:

Complacency;    "a feeling of smug or uncritical satisfaction with oneself or one's achievements."
(I'm too busy for that, too critical of myself, think too much, perfectionist, controlling, never satisfied concerning work)

"You See, It was Back in 2007 that I realized my faith was in a Rut and rotting away that I turned back to Him In repentance and He changed me"
and Amen!
"I had all the doctrines right, but not the heart of growth and learning and continuing in the faith"

To start, DH, God changed me the day I was saved, in the late seventies, in my spiritual position, and in actuality!! I did not have to turn back to Him.

"Thus I point the finger at myself before making the claim to others, encouraging them that there is growth and blessings to come if You return to the cross with the same heart with which you were saved and Live that way continually, learning and growing in the faith as a little child.  (called first love )

I never left the cross, DH. It has been a continual growth for my wife and myself for forty plus years. As babes in Christ, we both had the fire of the first love,
and still do. That 'fire' may not always raise to such great heights as before , but it burns regularly, faithfully, and has not diminished.
We are in it for the long haul, and not just a moment of emotions on the mountaintop.

"I write what I write from a heart that wants to share those blessings with others that he has shown me that they too can find this comfort and Joy by Knowing he is with us, Loving us, disciplining us, and allowing us to grow into the fullness of Christ"

I have found that 'comfort and joy' from the start, from the beginning, and through the yrs of trials and troubles, struggling to raise our children, home school them as their faithful stewards, serving our part in the local body of believers, and knowing/trusting He was always there, making straight our path.

But obviously some are opposed to this here, the question is where do you stand.

You have caused me to not 'see' your message by your previous reply's. I was a sorta stunned.

"I Answered in kind, meaning I can answer you with a similar baseless question"

And what was my 'baseless' question?
"What if you were wrong?
" About how you characterized everybody on the forum, assuming they all have this "complacency' problem, that you can "see". 
This 'question' was meant to maybe cause you to consider. Could you be wrong about making an all inclusive statement.
Could there be some, more than you know, who have been fighting the good fight, faithful all their born again years,yet not given to preaching.
There are many many believers who have kept the faith, and battle the enemy, the spiritual enemy, and not each other.
It hurts to hear so much down on the body of believers lately on this forum. There doesn't seem to be much edification.
I may not agree with some of your interpretations, but I understand your zeal. You want others to have what you found.
I'm simply trying to tell you, there are many out there who have already found it, and live it, as do you.

"We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross,
But that does not mean God is finished working in us,
But we continually are growing in the faith".
And Amen again!

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
I have grown over the years to be so very very thankful, and so grateful, to my God.
I am blessed DH, beyond measure, and I don't know why.
Our family, children, spouses, grandchildren, are all now my brothers and sisters, for eternity.
I am also the richest man I know.
And I'm not complacent, concerning God!.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am extremely Complacent with my Doctrine.....Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus For Salvation

My Faith Walk Complacement? Not a chance......For 49 years now, my life is Consumed with Bible study and listening to the Teachings Of Inspired Bible Teachers .....It is almost all that I do.....I can’t get enough of it .....I am still learning every day ......my life is busy....exciting....filled with joy......dare I say it? Christianity is fun...

[dhchristian]

10 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

The Gospel , as we all know, means “ Good News.” What is this Good News? It consists of  two simple Facts: Jesus died for our sins. Jesus rose from the Grave.Paul revealed through his role as Jesus Spokesman  after Jesus returned to Heaven, that if we simply Believe these two things for our Salvation, we will be saved.

This simple Promise from Jesus for Eternal Life is really good news in many ways for what it is not! First of all, it is NOT the Law. No more having to sweat out our Salvation by trying to adhere to 613 commandments that even Paul confessed that neither he nor his Fathers could obey 24/7. So how are you doing with that impossible system that was the way Of Salvation Before we were blessed with the Good News?

The Gospel ,Sadly, is Believed by many to be a “ call for action”......The Gospel never asks, much less, demands that the Sinner ( you and I ) “ turn over a new leaf” , that is, make improvements in our behavior in order to be saved

The Gospel is not a call to Repentance in the sense that we must show sorrow  and regret or even make restitution  for past grievances  and sins. It does not demand a promise to “ do better” in the future.

The Gospel does not demand that one give up your sins and break old habits and force yourself to form new ones.A person can do all of these laudatory things , but if you do not Believe what is Proclaimed by Jesus in 1Cor15:1-4, you May have become a more “ Moral” man, but you a LOST Moral Man!

In the final analyses, Jesus did not give us a New Rule to obey by revealing the Gospel  to Paul. The Gospel is NOT a RULE to be obeyed...it is Promise Of Jesus to be BELIEVED.....

Nobody at any time has ever come up with Something like this......Every religion ever dreamed up by the mind of man requires that the adherents must “ DO” something. Not so with the Gospel and  Christianity! The Gospel stems from the Love Of God and from the sheer Mercy Of God—- all that is Required Of Sinful Man  is to Turn To God with Faith in His Gospel and he is Saved. Forever .

This Gospel is a Gospel Of Pure Grace.Why is that Paramount to realize.....examine this Promise  Of Jesus very closely —- there is absolutely no room for Human Merit. It simply brushes away any of man’s pretensions to goodness or Morality.Human Pride is offended my this notion.Man wants to Earn his Salvation. “ Look what I did for you God! Give me what I deserve!” They are the ones that will hear the most horrifying Words ever spoken—— “ Depart from me, I never knew you!”

A religion, even popular Christianity, could enjoy a boom altogether divorced from the transforming power of the Holy Spirit and so leave the church of the next generation worse off than it would have been if the boom had never occurred. I believe that the imperative need of the day is not simply revival, but a radical reformation that will go to the root of our moral and spiritual maladies and deal with causes rather than with consequences, with the disease rather than with symptoms.

It is my considered opinion that under the present circumstances we do not want revival at all. A widespread revival of the kind of Christianity we know today in America might prove to be a moral tragedy from which we would not recover in a hundred years.

Here are my reasons. A generation ago, as a reaction from Higher Criticism and its offspring, Modernism, there arose in Protestantism a powerful movement in defense of the historic Christian faith. This, for obvious reasons, came to be known as Fundamentalism. It was a more or less spontaneous movement without much organization, but its purpose wherever it appeared was the same: to stay 'the rising tide of negation' in Christian theology and to restate and defend the basic doctrines of New Testament Christianity....


Falls Victim to Its Virtues


What is generally overlooked is that Fundamentalism, as it spread throughout the various denominations and nondenominational groups, fell victim to its own virtues. The Word died in the hands of its friends. ... An unofficial hierarchy decided what Christians were to believe. Not the Scriptures, but what the scribe thought the Scriptures meant became the Christian creed. Christian colleges, seminaries, Bible institutes, Bible conferences, popular Bible expositors all joined to promote the cult of textualism. The system of extreme dispensationalism which was devised, relieved the Christian of repentance, obedience and cross-carrying in any other than the most formal sense. Whole sections of the New Testament were taken from the church and disposed of after a rigid system of dividing the Word of truth.

All this resulted in a religious mentality inimical to the true faith of Christ. ... The basic doctrines of the Bible were there, but the climate was just not favorable to the sweet fruits of the Spirit.

The whole mood was different from that of the Early Church and of the great souls who suffered and sang and worshiped in the centuries past. The doctrines were sound but something vital was missing. The tree of correct doctrine was never allowed to blossom. The voice of the turtle [dove] was rarely heard in the land".... Faith, a mighty, vitalizing doctrine in the mouths of the apostles, became in the mouth of the scribe another thing altogether and power went from it. As the letter triumphed, the Spirit withdrew and textualism ruled supreme....

In the interest of accuracy it should be said that this was a general condition only. Certainly there were some even in those low times whose longing hearts were better theologians than their teachers were. These pressed on to a fullness and power unknown to the rest. But they were not many and the odds were too great" they could not dispel the mist that hung over the land.

The error of textualism is not doctrinal. It is far more subtle than that and much more difficult to discover, but its effects are just as deadly. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions.

It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental.

Revolt from Mental Tyranny

The human mind can endure textualism just so long, before it seeds a way of escape. The result over the last twenty years has been a religious debauch hardly equaled since Israel worshipped the golden calf. Of us Bible Christians it may truthfully be said that we 'sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.' The separating line between the Church and the world has been all but obliterated.

Aside from a few of the gross sins, the sins of the unregenerate world are now approved by a shocking number of professedly "born-again' Christians, and copied eagerly. Young Christians take as their models the rankest kind of worldlings and try to be as much like them as possible. Religious leaders have adopted the techniques of the advertisers; boasting, bating and shameless exaggerating are now carried on as a normal procedure in church work.....

The holy faith of our fathers has in many places been made a form of entertainment, and the appalling thing is that all this has been fed down to the masses from the top.

That note of protest which began with the New Testament and which was always heard loudest went the Church was most powerful has been successfully silenced. The radical element in testimony and life that once made Christians hated by the world is missing from present-day evangelism.

Christians were once revolutionists-- moral, not political -- but we have lost our revolutionary character. It is no longer either dangerous or costly to be a Christian..... We are busy these days proving to the world that they can have all the benefits of the Gospel without any of the inconvenience to their customary way of life. It's 'all this and heaven too.'...

For this reason it is useless for... believers to spend long hours begging God to send revival. Unless we intend to reform, we may as well not pray. Unless praying men have the insight and faith to amend their whole way of life to conform to the New Testament patters, there can be no true revival.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19117&forum=36