Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Guest JAR61]

I Can't help But Wonderif We Aren't ASking the Wrong Question.

Perhaps the more correct question is:

Were we even saved in the first place?[/COLOR]

[RGR]

In speaking to Timothy about appointing pastors, Paul had this to say:

I Timothy 3:6-And a pastor musn't be a man who has just recently became a believer, so that he won't be blinded with pride and receive the same punishment as the devil(NT in Everyday American English)

I see how that OSAS folks get a lot of their teachings but I also see verses like this that seem to totally wipe out the OSAS doctrine. By Paul's own admission, the person in question is a believer. Yet if he becomes blinded with pride (sin) he receives the same punishment as Satan. Honestly I don't see any way of reconciling OSAS with this verse. Satan's punishment is hell and total separation from God, so I would appreciate if someone of the OSAS persuasion could explain this to me! (Not being nasty, it's an honest inquiry)

[Joy in the Journey]

I Can't help But Wonderif We Aren't ASking the Wrong Question.

Perhaps the more correct question is:

Were we even saved in the first place?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So either you:

• - Subsribe to OSAS and go through life fearing you may never have been saved in the first place
  
  or
  
  • - Do not subscribe to OSAS and fear you may lose your salvation
    

I think either extreme is a dangerous one to believe in. What's the solution then ?

Be blessed,

Tim

[Guest JAR61]

I Can't help But Wonderif We Aren't ASking the Wrong Question.

Perhaps the more correct question is:

Were we even saved in the first place?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So either you:

• - Subsribe to OSAS and go through life fearing you may never have been saved in the first place
  
  or
  
  • - Do not subscribe to OSAS and fear you may lose your salvation
    

I think either extreme is a dangerous one to believe in. What's the solution then ?

Be blessed,

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think any man who presumes grace a fool....

You will find Scripture is clear about reporbation and a man who comes to Christ and then continues in sin... SCripture says.. Christ came but once to die for mans sins.. if we persist then what have we to cover our transgressions.

[Joy in the Journey]

I think any man who presumes grace a fool....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you explain that one please I thought salvation was based on grace alone ?

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

[Guest JAR61]

"Presuming Grace"

Means "Once saved Always saved" and in adopting such a position thinking one can do whatever they want and they will continue to be forgiven and bestowed with unmerited favor.

Salvation is a state of being....it requires repentance... turning away from sin and to God.

The proof of our salvation lies in the struggle against sin, desiring to live in the power and presenceof the Holy Spirit.

If sin is dominate in a persons life, is not convicted of that behavior and thinks that he or she is living in grace because they "mouthed" the invitation to Christ from their lips but not from their hearts... then I would say..they might have a few problems when they get to the pearly gates.

[Work in Progress]

"Presuming Grace"

Means "Once saved Always saved" and in adopting such a position thinking one can do whatever they want and they will continue to be forgiven and bestowed with unmerited favor.

What Bible believing Christian would think such a thing? I know many who believe the Scriptures in that we can not become "unsaved", but yet know NO ONE who believes it's a license to sin without consequence. No Bible believing Christian indwelt by the Holy Spirit would believe that.

John 15:16: " You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit.........."

John 15:19: " But I have chosen you out of the world."

Acts 22:14: " Then he said: 'The God of our fathers has chosen you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear the words from His mouth."

Ephesians 1:4: "For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blamesless in His sight."

2Thessalonians 2:13: "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth"

1Peter 2:4: " As you come to Him, the living Stone - rejected by men but chosen by God ....."

1Peter 2:9: " But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God..........."

Revelation 17:14: "but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings - and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers."

Since Scripture is clear that God chose us and not the other way around, He can not unchoose us (He said so in His Word and it's common sense) and we can't foul up his plan by unchoosing Him - otherwise you are saying the creation has more power than the creator.

[Gerioke]

1 Cor 6:12  All things are permissable but not all things are profitable.

I believe this to mean that grace allows us to fail without eternal punishments but our actions will create consequences that we may not savour.

[Joy in the Journey]

"Presuming Grace"

Means "Once saved Always saved" and in adopting such a position thinking one can do whatever they want and they will continue to be forgiven and bestowed with unmerited favor.

What Bible believing Christian would think such a thing? I know many who believe the Scriptures in that we can not become "unsaved", but yet know NO ONE who believes it's a license to sin without consequence. No Bible believing Christian indwelt by the Holy Spirit would believe that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are SO right Work In Progress - I was thinking the same thing when I read that reply. I really don't know where people get that idea that those of us who believe in OSAS think we can sin all we want That's a strawman argument ( I've been DYING to use that term for 6 weeks now! ) and it holds NO truth at all. I'm sure there are a few out there who believe that, but to lump EVERY believer in OSAS into being "frequent, unremorseful sinners who indulge in the lusts of their flesh" or whatever our label is- well, that's just not fair and it's totally inaccurate.

Thanks for setting the record straight

Be blessed,

Tim

[Work in Progress]

I've been DYING to use that term for 6 weeks now!

LOL Tim!

Actually, I would say that it is impossible for any indwelt believer to believe that.