When’s it ok fight, and when not to?

[Ervin P]

Ok, Mathew 26:59 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

And, Romans 13:4,  "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Ok, now if you are not working for governments law enforcement for instance, when can you fight/ignore, etc. and when not to?

Also, 

Matthew 5:44 

^44 [a]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and

persecute you,

Verses

And 2 John 1:10: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.

Also, when can you cut of someone from your life. It’s hard for me to work these things out.

Ok I have just edited to ad: If you are dealing with heavily corrupt authorities, can you fight them, or put the “sword” down? 
 

Is it ok for police to lie, like undercover, etc?

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ervin P
Just aded more questions

[Ervin P]

I find the above very important in understanding the teachings. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

 Thanks 

[OneLight]

You provide scripture on four different situations, then ask if it is OK for an undercover officer to lie.  There is no way to tie them together without you being more specific by telling us what exactly are you getting at, otherwise you will force people to create their own scenarios and you may never get your answer.

[missmuffet]

Question: "Is it ever right to lie?"

Answer: The Bible nowhere presents an instance where lying is considered to be the right thing to do. The ninth commandment prohibits bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16). Proverbs 6:16-19 lists “a lying tongue” and “a false witness who pours out lies” as two of the seven abominations to the Lord. Love “rejoices with the truth” (1 Corinthians 13:6). For other Scriptures that speak negatively of lying, see Psalm 119:29, 163; 120:2; Proverbs 12:22; 13:5; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9; and Revelation 21:8. There are many examples of liars in Scripture, from Jacob’s deceit in Genesis 27 to the pretense of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5. Time after time, we see that falsehood leads to misery, loss, and judgment.

There are at least two instances in the Bible where lying produced a favorable result. For example, the lie the Hebrew midwives tell Pharaoh seems to result in the Lord’s blessing on them (Exodus 1:15-21), and it probably saved the lives of many Hebrew babies. Another example is Rahab’s lie to protect the Israelite spies in Joshua 2:5. It is important to note, however, that God never condones these lies. Despite the “positive” outcome of these lies, the Bible nowhere praises the lies themselves. The Bible nowhere states that there are instances where lying is the right thing to do. At the same time, the Bible does not declare that there is no possible instance in which lying is an acceptable option.

The question then remains: is there ever a time when lying is the right thing to do? The most common illustration of this dilemma comes from the life of Corrie ten Boom in Nazi-occupied Holland. Essentially, the story is this: Corrie ten Boom is hiding Jews in her home to protect them from the Nazis. Nazi soldiers come to her home and ask her if she knows where any Jews are hiding. What is she to do? Should she tell the truth and allow the Nazis to capture the Jews she was trying to protect? Or, should she lie and deny that she knows anything about them?

In an instance such as this, where lying may be the only possible way to prevent a horrible evil, perhaps lying would be an acceptable thing to do. Such an instance would be somewhat similar to the lies of the Hebrew midwives and Rahab. In an evil world, and in a desperate situation, it may be the right thing to commit a lesser evil, lying, in order to prevent a much greater evil. However, it must be noted that such instances are extremely rare. It is highly likely that the vast majority of people in human history have never faced a situation in which lying was the right thing to do.

https://www.gotquestions.org/right-to-lie.html

Edited May 25, 2020 by missmuffet

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

You provide scripture on four different situations, then ask if it is OK for an undercover officer to lie.  There is no way to tie them together without you being more specific by telling us what exactly are you getting at, otherwise you will force people to create their own scenarios and you may never get your answer.

The problem with that is if he is undercover he definitely could not tell anyone. 

[Not me]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:39 AM, Ervin P said:

Ok, Mathew 26:59 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

And, Romans 13:4,  "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Ok, now if you are not working for governments law enforcement for instance, when can you fight/ignore, etc. and when not to?

Also, 

Matthew 5:44 

^44 [a]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and

persecute you,

Verses

And 2 John 1:10: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.

Also, when can you cut of someone from your life. It’s hard for me to work these things out.

Ok I have just edited to ad: If you are dealing with heavily corrupt authorities, can you fight them, or put the “sword” down? 
 

Is it ok for police to lie, like undercover, etc?

 

Thanks 

 

I’m not sure if this is correct or if it might help a little....

Scripture says;

Romans 12:18 (NASB)
If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

“If possible”

In other words, it might not be possible to live at peace with all men... You might find yourself in a situation where it is not possible to allow an evil act....Stopping an evil act with violence is itself not evil...

“as far as it depends on you”

This is directing one to one’s own heart...Is it more peace to allow the evil act or to stand against it with violence, or a degree of violence? 
 

We live in a fallen world with evil all around us every day.... Being at peace with every man is the best thing..But the other might not allow it...

So I would suggest the advise put forth in scripture ; If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men....As a bench mark knowing that each persons benchmark might be different...

Hope it helps, for I think the closer we get to Christ the benchmark might move...

Be blessed in searching out the answer your heart is at peace with... Knowing we see dimly as through a glass...

A fellow searcher into the way, Not me 

[Justin Adams]

When I got my Concealed Carry permit, the instructors gave a very good presentation of the law of the State and what NOT to do.

It is our right as Americans to bear arms. Not all states have the same rules and in Texas there was a loud cry against making it legal without a certificate. The weeenies yelled loud and long about all the deaths that will now happen in Texas. However, violent crimes, especially in mall parking areas dropped markedly especially at night. The open carry served the State very well and the crooks were held at bay by their own evil imaginations. The lone woman at night only had to reach into her purse and off would run the baddies.

[Ervin P]

On 5/25/2020 at 3:00 PM, OneLight said:

You provide scripture on four different situations, then ask if it is OK for an undercover officer to lie.  There is no way to tie them together without you being more specific by telling us what exactly are you getting at, otherwise you will force people to create their own scenarios and you may never get your answer.

Hi OneLight and thanks. I find those statements to be pretty general. If it was super easy to work out the will of God Yahweh, then forums like these would be of no use.

Ok, I’ll try to be more specific without actual details. Is it ok to fight corrupt authorities with other authorities, where if you do win people will get hurt(legally), or do you forgive all and those continue to run a mock with others? I hope this is specific enough.

I find this thread to be pretty important to my self, because how I act can determine(maybe) whether God forgives me, hence:

Matt. 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt. 6:15 “But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

 

Thanks

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Ervin P said:

Hi OneLight and thanks. I find those statements to be pretty general. If it was super easy to work out the will of God Yahweh, then forums like these would be of no use.

Ok, I’ll try to be more specific without actual details. Is it ok to fight corrupt authorities with other authorities, where if you do win people will get hurt(legally), or do you forgive all and those continue to run a mock with others? I hope this is specific enough.

I find this thread to be pretty important to my self, because how I act can determine(maybe) whether God forgives me, hence:

Matt. 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt. 6:15 “But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

 

Thanks

Hi Ervin,

Yes, that does help in trying to understand your situation.  First, being honest is the right way to go, even if the honesty is very unpopular.  What I think you are asking is when should one speak honestly about a given situation.  I am assuming the situation involves an undercover officer.  To begin with this assumption, the term undercover officer  can mean being an officer dressed in civies to pretending to be someone you are not, as an undercover trying to become part of an illegal operation to gain information, like a spy.  But your situation seem to contain some sort of lying being involved.  I believe that when scripture speaks about all liars being thrown into the lake of fire, it speaks of those who live according to the lies they speak, a constant liar, someone you can never believe.  I don't see it as if you are asked a question abut someone who is innocent, but exposing them will place them in great danger, as Carrie Ten Boone did while hiding Jewish people from Nazis.

Now, corruption should be addressed, always.  Sure, those who are corrupt, or those who side with such corruption will hold it against you if you expose their corruption, but if you allow it to continue, are you not supporting their corrupting by not saying anything?   All through scripture we find God standing against corrupt people, as we should.  Those who are corrupt do not care about what is legal.  If it were me, Id consider Matthew 7:12 - "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."  If you were the recipient of such corruption and were being harmed in any way, would you want someone to stand up for you, exposing the corruption, ending the harm it caused?  If so, then do likewise. Officials, who we are asked to place our trust in them, when they become corrupt broke that trust and need to be dealt with.

I see Matthew 6:14 to be what we follow in normal every day life.  What you describe does not sound like everyday life to me.

This is something you should pray about and seek His guidance to ensure you are doing what His will is for you.  There is a difference in the heart if exposing someone derives from some personal vendetta against them, or if is to for the good of everyone.

[BibleStudent100]

On 5/11/2020 at 2:39 AM, Ervin P said:

Is it ok for police to lie, like undercover, etc?

 

I sense that your question is comprised of two parts:

Part 1:  Lying in general is evil.  Afterall, the father, or originator, of lying is Satan the Devil. (Joh 8:44) His lie conveyed by means of a serpent to the first woman Eve ultimately brought death to her and to her husband Adam. (Ge 3:1-5, 16-19) That first lie was rooted in selfishness and wrong desire.  All other malicious lies uttered since that time have likewise been a reflection of selfishness and wrong desire.

Part 2:  While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, might there be exceptions (e.g. an undercover cop) when a person could lie?  Biblically the answer is yes.  Sometimes, individuals are not entitled to the truth. Jesus Christ counseled: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (Mt 7:6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10) Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of God must be viewed in the same light.—Ge 12:10-19; chap 20; 26:1-10; Jos 2:1-6; Jas 2:25; 2Ki 6:11-23.