At what point should we refuse a mandatory vaccine or mark?

[dad2]

7 hours ago, Traveler said:

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Now because of this pandemic there is a move to get rid of cash because it is a carrier. That means all transactions need to be done electronically. The intention is that we get a chip implanted in the hand between the thumb and forefinger to prove we have had the vaccination.

Source? What proof do you have this is 'the intention'?

 

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To force us to get it we will be forced to stay at home and not be allowed in the public spaces so in effect we cannot buy or sell or work

That is on possible predicted consequence. Yet we see the world opening up again already to some extent. I would be careful on predictions.

 

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Now admittedly this is only the first attempt at a roll out and if enough people resist, it will fail, but know that we have reached this point in history.

That seems to be true, the lion seems to be at the door.

 

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Make no mistake, you take a mark that makes you recognizable to the beast system you are eternally damned. There is no rationalization that is going to work. It is one way or another. You take the mark and get a temporary world blessing or you refuse and get Gods promise of redemption. Do not lie or pretend to yourself, decide now if you will take your stand or if you will fold and then be prepared to accept the consequences.

It is my understanding that once we are saved we are saved forever.  What do you think about the possibility that the mark may come after the Rapture, so losing salvation is not in the cards?

 

[dad2]

5 hours ago, BrandonLee said:

You take the mark:

Pros:

1) Your life will resume as normal.
2) You can do your groceries, buy stuffs online, eat out, etc.
3) You can go to work, get paid, and go home.

I believe in this system, there will be no taxes or bills to pay. Your pay will be much higher so can buy a nice house and nice things to your heart's content. You will live like Kings and Queens. This system will be very enticing.

Cons:

1) You will suffer the plagues.
2) The lake of fire awaits you that will torment you for eternity while still conscious and living. You will not get a second chance or any forgiveness. You will be damned forever together with the Devil and his angels.

You refuse the mark:

Cons:

While on Earth:

1) You will be unemployed as nobody will hire you.
2) You will be refused entry or buy goods from groceries, stores, markets, restaurants, malls, online, etc.
3) Your properties will be taken away from you even if you're the legal owner.
4) The citizens of this new golden era will have the freedom to hunt you down and kill you just like the purge.
5) Your family members will betray you and have you put to death.
6) False pastors and church brethren will betray and have you put to death.
7) You'll suffer hunger and thirst.
8) You'll be homeless.
9) You'll be tortured and beheaded.

Pros:

1) Eternal life.
2) Glorious / eternal bodies that will no longer die nor suffer sickness nor age.
3) Have powers just like the angels.
4) You will rule with Christ for 1,000 years. 
5) You will not face the White Throne judgement.
6) Eternal blessings and abundance.
7) You will be part of the new heavens and the new Earth.

---

Your choice. There will be no turning back.

 That sort of makes it sound like our salvation depends on a mark. I think it depends on Jesus. Knowing Him and His mercy, it would surprise me if the timing of the mark of the beast (whose foreshadow we see even now) was not after the Rapture. He also provides many witnesses warning people not to get it in that time. Angels, 2 witnesses, 144,000 Jewish witnesses, etc.

[other one]

12 minutes ago, dad2 said:

 

I don't think there is a pre trib rapture so that part really doesn't matter to me....    If I don't die I will be looking forward to tell the beast no and offer my head....     but I'm not going to mess up my life between now and then looking for all the possibilities for the mark to avoid them when the beast isn't here and the Mark isn't created yet...   There are a lot of potentially good things to come that I don't want to miss out on out of fear of a mark that isn't as of yet defined....    And be assured that the Holy Spirit will tell us "ALL" when that time comes.

 

 

[warrior12]

32 minutes ago, dad2 said:

Of course no fear for believers. The OP asked about refusing a mandatory vaccine. Not sure someone would fear that. If we saw that some sort of chip, or technology or bio metric measures were included with the compulsory vaccine in some countries, would believers still feel they had to obey the law and take it? 

 

Hope you are not oblivious to the world we live in today.  Everything is coming down or gearing towards nano scale technology.  Survival in the modern world would mean that one participate or use the technologies that are evolving, as much as we may not like it.  It is no going back to the cart and buggy, those days are gone.

I work with electronic devices and the days of repairing them to the board level are disappearing as the discreet components that make up those circuit boards are so tiny that it takes very specialized equipment to service and replace the miniature parts. These are the realities of today. Medicine is no different, as now robots are doing surgery with better results than  human in accuracy. Sure they have quarks in them, but in a few years that will be a different story.

So now the issues that will stomp believers as to refuse mandatory vaccine are health or faith that God will be his protector in all situations.  So essentially, you would have to be SURE, that the vaccine is the MARK or you forfeit your life at your choice.  It is a question that believers would have to answer and one which can have devastating consequences to entire families.       

[LadyKay]

21 hours ago, dad2 said:

Apparently many countries will make a vaccine mandatory.

Okay back to the topic. I  do not see vaccines becoming mandatory in the US. Even when we had the measles outbreak some people were still refusing to vaccinate. When I was a kid you had to have your shots to go to school Now days people are allowed to sign a waiver so their kid can go to school without getting vaccinated.  So I do not see vaccine becoming mandatory in the US. We can't even get people to wear mask. Or stay 6 ft away from other people. We can't even get people to stay home here.  Without protesting in the streets about their rights. So do not see how they would mandate a vaccine. 

I don't see the connection between vaccines and the mark of the beast. I wonder if there was fear like this when the Smallpox Vaccine came out?  My understanding is the mark is about buying and selling. And seems to be a choice that is given to people.  I heard it had to do with Roman's ruler mark at the time ordering everyone to have the ruler's mark in order to buy and sell in Rome. But I have not study this so I can not say for sure.  

Well this is my take on all of this. Carry on. 

[John Robinson]

My beautiful wife and I have already decided we're saying no to both. As an Army combat vet I'm fully cognizant of what the term "taking a last stand" means, and we're ready for that. 

And at 68, "life in prison" doesn't mean that much.

YMMV, of course.

[warrior12]

8 minutes ago, Addy said:

If I'm not mistaken... it's the tracking chip that people are thinking will be INCLUDED in the vaccine that is causing the big fuss. At least I think that is what this is about... LOL  

I'm from Canada... and I very much see this vaccine as becoming mandatory.

So, we not sure as yet, but as you said, it seems like it is heading that way.  You see, the system and this virus has put man into a position of taking a  remedy for survival or the risk of getting others infected .  They have the strings to pull to say when to do what and when as for the case of the so called "second wave" which they can command lockdown again.   They also have the word "Pandemic" as a powerful tool to institute measures to control and manipulate as they please.   

I would like to think this is a normal occurrence of a disease that man has been exposed to in the world of viruses and other sicknesses, but what I have been through in the spiritual realm is leading me to think differently.  I am not sure that it is though, so optimism  for a return to life as we have known it is cheered for.  

Just as this virus made swift changes to the world , changes in governments around the world and even in so called free democratic nations can take place if it is of biblical prophetic coming to be. Who knows, but we are still to walk in confidence that God is in control and we are to rest in his promises.

I too live in Ontario and  see all the cautions and precautions being taken and implemented as today some businesses are allowed  to open , but with restrictions of course.

[dad2]

2 hours ago, other one said:

I don't think there is a pre trib rapture so that part really doesn't matter to me....    If I don't die I will be looking forward to tell the beast no and offer my head....     but I'm not going to mess up my life between now and then looking for all the possibilities for the mark to avoid them when the beast isn't here and the Mark isn't created yet...   There are a lot of potentially good things to come that I don't want to miss out on out of fear of a mark that isn't as of yet defined....    And be assured that the Holy Spirit will tell us "ALL" when that time comes.

 

 

OK.

[dad2]

2 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Hope you are not oblivious to the world we live in today.  Everything is coming down or gearing towards nano scale technology.  Survival in the modern world would mean that one participate or use the technologies that are evolving, as much as we may not like it.  It is no going back to the cart and buggy, those days are gone.

I work with electronic devices and the days of repairing them to the board level are disappearing as the discreet components that make up those circuit boards are so tiny that it takes very specialized equipment to service and replace the miniature parts. These are the realities of today. Medicine is no different, as now robots are doing surgery with better results than  human in accuracy. Sure they have quarks in them, but in a few years that will be a different story.

So now the issues that will stomp believers as to refuse mandatory vaccine are health or faith that God will be his protector in all situations.  So essentially, you would have to be SURE, that the vaccine is the MARK or you forfeit your life at your choice.  It is a question that believers would have to answer and one which can have devastating consequences to entire families.       

Not really. I try not to blindly trust in man generally. Looking at the medical system, it seems to me that they are one of the chief dangers to life on earth.  In many cases, people that trusted in the system forfeited their lives. Failed vaccines. Lobotomies. Murdered babies, and maternal deaths. Etc. How about MKultra? They probably had experts helping when they snuck lsd into drinks and etc etc. How about the A bomb experiments where soldiers were involved? I suspect there must have been some medical advice there somewhere. There are many people that would use the medical system only as a last resort. There is some good in it, but in my opinion, it also contains bad.

 

 We always have to operate according to our faith, and it is a life and death thing. We do not need to know that a mandatory vaccine is the mark of the beast to want to avoid it.

 

Not only the medical system, but political leaders are involved in a mandatory procedure, so we would need to trust them also.

Edited May 19, 2020 by dad2

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, Addy said:

f I'm not mistaken... it's the tracking chip that people are thinking will be INCLUDED in the vaccine

Is there any information that a tracking chip will be included in the vaccine? Or is this just another theory that is being put out there to freak people out?   As I have not heard anything about tracking chips in vaccine. But I will look it up to see if I can find any info on this. I did hear about tracking people's smartphones. I think they did that in Japan maybe? Anyway, I will look into this see what I can find.