Jesus was holding the scroll, how can He became the white horse rider of the 1st Seal ?

[wingnut-]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Seems so.  Take care my friend and stay awake!

 

You too brother, God bless.

[R. Hartono]

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The dragon and the beast are two separate and distinct entities that not only interact with each other, but are also destroyed at different times roughly 1000 years apart. 

You re right. I never said they r destroyed at the same time

The Lament of the Bow is a description when the enemy won. Such as when the Hebrew n saul was defeated. The world will Lament when ac conquer the world with the bow.

 

[Montana Marv]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:06 PM, Sister said:

Where does it say these riders are coming out of heaven?

Where does it say they are not coming out of heaven.

Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures (beasts) had...... .. Day and Night they never stop saying; v11.  Where are these four creatures, but around the throne.

The First living creature said come, I will show you.  Still in heaven.  The Second living creature said come, I will show you, still in heaven (another horse came out).  The Third living creature said come.  The Fourth living creature said come.  They are the inner circle around the Throne of God.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Sister]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Where does it say they are not coming out of heaven.

Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures (beasts) had...... .. Day and Night they never stop saying; v11.  Where are these four creatures, but around the throne.

The First living creature said come, I will show you.  Still in heaven.  The Second living creature said come, I will show you, still in heaven (another horse came out).  The Third living creature said come.  The Fourth living creature said come.  They are the inner circle around the Throne of God.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Montana Marv

This is what I have discovered recently.  It is very deep.

There are 7 seals which the Lamb opens.

God is giving the Revelation to Jesus to give to the angel to give to John.

The revelation comes from heaven.  The voice of the first beast is a type of angel with four wings and four faces that is attached to God's chariot. (Ezekiel 1)  Yes, God's chariot is made of spirit - the 4 wheels of God's chariot consist of 4 spirit creatures.  Above their heads is the firmament and the throne of God.  These creatures are under the firmament, just under the throne of God.  No creature is above the Lord God, but all are beneath him.   There are different layers of heaven.  These would be the closest to the highest level where God sits, but on a level just beneath.

God is speaking through Jesus (the Word of God) who is on the highest level, who is speaking through the beast to show John what was to come upon the earth.  The rider of the white horse is not one of the 4 creature's itself, but it's the voice of the creature who is showing John what is to come.  All is a metaphor of the sign to watch for.  The riders of these four horses are bringing evil upon the earth, and are of the first 4 seals.  God is not sending his creatures to bring evil, but to show the evil that is coming, for those riders are Satan's angels.

So each creature is chosen to speak to John and relay the message from the top.  This is why their voices sound of thunder.  You have God there, speaking through his Word (Jesus), mixed with the voice of the living creature.  A powerful voice that John is hearing, and showing him what is to come.  In those words he is hearing is full of power.

And at the 5th seal, there is another type of angel showing John, and so forth.

All the voices come from heaven, because it comes from the top.  God through Jesus is telling the angels what to say, so John can see and hear the vision.

Does this make sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

On 7/29/2020 at 12:34 PM, wingnut- said:

At what point does the Lord cease being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent?

Could it be, is it possible, that His first advent is precisely what is transpiring with that first seal?  Have you ever asked yourself, who is giving this rider a crown to begin with?  Is there anywhere in scripture that God gives a crown to an enemy of His? 

Another thought to consider here, how often does a symbol change in scripture?  Since Jesus is identified as the rider on the white horse later, wouldn't that be a little more consistent?  I don't imagine you read the Lamb of God and decide it suddenly represents someone other than Jesus, so I can't imagine why this symbol should be regarded any differently.

Please explain what good is that for God to hide it with a Seal if the 1st Seal speaks about Jesus spreading the Gospel to win people ? John has already known this since 30 AD and John would not weep so much if the 1st Seal is Jesus spreading the Gospel. Its not a secret at all.

The crown : You keep insisting who is giving this rider a crown to begin with, the Revelation 13 explained the beast with 10 crowns and its the dragon who gave him that power and authority.

Regarding your question : At what point does the Lord cease being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? Please see below explanation from Bro. The Light.

 

On 6/22/2020 at 7:26 AM, The Light said:

Total nonsense that Jesus is the rider on the white horse. The rider is given the stephanos crown the leafed crown of victory. Same crown as the seal of the United Nations.

I'd have to think that John would be able to recognize Jesus if Jesus was the rider. Maybe Jesus rides back to open the second seal.

He can't. But I'm pretty sure there are a few in this forum with great imaginations that can answer your question.

It will sound something like this:

John was viewing the future from the past. It is a Prophetic Interlude. The intervening was a past participle of the congruent nature of spiritualism. Thus the rider could be at two places at one time. He is God, is He not? And all things are possible with God.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by R. Hartono

[The Light]

55 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Please explain what good is that for God to hide it with a Seal if the 1st Seal speaks about Jesus spreading the Gospel to win people ?

Now that is an excellent point!!!!

55 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

John has already known this since 30 AD and John would not weep so much if the 1st Seal is Jesus spreading the Gospel. Its not a secret at all.

Brilliant

 

55 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The crown : You keep insisting who is giving this rider a crown to begin with, the Revelation 13 explained the beast with 10 crowns and its the dragon who gave him that power and authority.

Regarding your question : At what point does the Lord cease being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? Please see below explanation from Bro. The Light.

 

 

Lol. Nailed it.

[wingnut-]

58 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Regarding your question : At what point does the Lord cease being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? Please see below explanation from Bro. The Light.

 

I think considering you don't answer the questions I ask you, then this is no longer a conversation or discussion with any purpose.  As far as receiving the explanation from the light, his/her response shows the same lack of application in regards to God's omnipresence as yours did.  So sadly it is no answer at all, or not a correct one, but I'll leave you to it, good luck.

[Sister]

On 7/26/2020 at 10:15 AM, The_Truth_Seeker said:

The problem here is the English translation makes no mention of the word "arrow ". The question is does the English translation match exactly to how this passage was understood in the Greek at the time? (and I think  it is Koine Greek if I recall correctly.)

 

I think it depends on what manuscript you are relying on?

 

Quote

 

This is one of those word translations which is difficult to verify what the actual meaning is supposed to represent, so I had to do some further checking. I was comparing Job 41.28 to different translations and this is where things get interesting. Many translations have the word "arrow" but the Greek Septuagint has the word "bow".
 

 

 

 

I use the KJV, not the NKJV.

As far as I understand the manuscripts used for translating the KJV was the Ben Chayyim Masoretic text which was the preserved Word of God of the OT, written and preserved by the faithful Levites.

The NKJV and many other translations relied on the Septuagint, the Alexandrian manuscripts (Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph); Codex Vaticanus (B); and Codex Alexandrinus (A))

 

 

Quote

So the question then is, at time when the Septuagint was being translated, could the Greek word "toxon" be understood as a reference to  bow and arrow? descripion could very well relate to the medical and pharmaceuticals industry.

The Septuagint was a different manuscript, so their translation was probably correct according to their definitions, but again, the KJV did not rely on the Septuagint.

We are comparing apples with oranges. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Sister

[wingnut-]

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Please explain what good is that for God to hide it with a Seal if the 1st Seal speaks about Jesus spreading the Gospel to win people ? John has already known this since 30 AD and John would not weep so much if the 1st Seal is Jesus spreading the Gospel. Its not a secret at all.

 

I am not sure where you get hiding it from, did I say anything about hiding anything?  Do you know what a Revelation is?  A revealing of something, at what point did the Revelation of Jesus Christ begin?  Would you say that He was revealed when He first came to earth, or not until after He had been crucified and resurrected?

Of course John knows this, I never implied that He did not, it is in fact stated prior to this in the first chapter.

 

Revelation 1:19 Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this.

 

John is instructed to write the things that he has seen, things that are (as in, already in existence or having happened), and things that are still future.  

 

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The crown : You keep insisting who is giving this rider a crown to begin with,

That's an important detail wouldn't you say, perhaps you need to consider where all of this is taking place according to John.  How about we take a look at scripture just to verify where he is?

 

Revelation 5   Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”

 

Revelation 6  Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.

 

Did he leave the throne room?  No.  So again I ask, who does the rider get the crown from?

 

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

the Revelation 13 explained the beast with 10 crowns and its the dragon who gave him that power and authority.

 

So now you have the beast in heaven?  Isn't that a little strange that John doesn't mention the beast and the dragon being there?  And on top of that, 1 crown has turned into 10 crowns?

 

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Regarding your question : At what point does the Lord cease being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? Please see below explanation from Bro. The Light.

 

Maybe you and bro light should take a stab at this one, and see if it resonates.

 

Hebrews 4:3  For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

Now, regardless of whether you accept or even bother to consider any of the above, perhaps one of you who claim the rider on the white horse is the beast can solve this riddle.  I saved the best for last.

If the beast is given authority to wage war against the saints for a 3.5 year period, and he also controls the economy with the implementation of his mark as recorded later, and has authority to kill anyone that won't worship him, then how do you explain the next three riders?   Is the beast riding all the horses? Does he go back and forth from the throne room changing colors and John just doesn't notice it?  

[RonaldBruno]

Jesus is not the Rider on the white horse in Rev. 6. This rider goes out to conquer with a bow and has only 1 diadem (crown). No, this is the Antichrist, having a short period of time to conquer the world.

Jesus is the Rider on the white horse in             Rev. 19:11-16. This is an obvious description. He is wearing many crowns, is the faithful and true Savior and is coming in Judgment. He had already conquered sin and Satan on the cross.

Edited August 11, 2020 by RonaldBruno
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