Raptured

[douggg]

44 minutes ago, The Light said:

You have the daily sacrifice at day 1185 when the says that the daily sacrifice is take away on day 1185.

No, not at day 1185, but earlier on the chart right below the end of peace and safety.  

There is not enough information available to know when the daily sacrifice with be stopped, as far as specific timeline day.     We can only know the general time will be in the midst, middle part of the 7 years.

 

 

1.  The daily sacrifice taken away.   Which is on my chart. 

2. And afterward, it does not say how far afterward; the abomination of desolation will be setup, which is on my chart.   

3.  And following the abomination of desolation having been setup,  there are 1290 days - to something,  which what that something is - is not found in the text.   

That something is what I show as the sixth seal event on my chart, at the end of the 1290 days.

The 1335th day is the Day that Jesus Returns.

 

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by douggg

[douggg]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

You seem to be ignoring scriptural fact. The scripture says that HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS to gather the elect from heaven and earth. There is no 45 days and Armageddon happening. There is a rapture happening. It is the gathering from heaven and earth.

The gathering of the elect is after Armageddon. 

 

Armageddon in Ezekiel 39 is in Ezekiel 39:17-20.     Afterward, in Ezekiel 39:27-28 is the gathering of the elect.

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The 45 days is the length of the great tribulation.

No, the great tribulation begins  when the Abomination of Desolation is setup, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The world is saying peace and safety when the great tribulation is over. Then they are cast into the wrath of God.

As for Israel, those that fled are in a place of protection.

The world saying peace and safety is before the wrath begins, not after it begins.   The great tribulation contains the vials of God's wrath.

Edited July 3, 2020 by douggg

[Uriah]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Uriah,

Quote

What you are saying is incorrect. When we look at the context we can clearly see that Paul is talking about not only the dead but also the alive that remain. The alive that remain will be caught up before the wrath of God begins. This is the same wrath that we see in Revelation, which is the wrath of God ( 7 trumpets or 7 vials)

And so the great multitude tat no man can count, is there another rapture for them? Another resurrection too?

?1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That day is the Day of the Lord. I could post numerous that prove what "that DAY" is. One should suffice.

Zec 14

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

² For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

You are bleeding verse 8 that talks of those that OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH into verse 9 which say Tribulation and anguish upon the souls (that OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH)

Rom 2

⁵ But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

⁸ But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

⁹ Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

It is the Day people will receive the eternal punishment as you yourself have now pointed to ...NOT trumpets and bowls. 

Quote

I believe in a pretrib rapture and these verses don't affect what I believe whatsoever. 1 Thes 5 is clearly talking about the day of the Lord which is the day of his wrath, which is the 7 trumpets or seven bowls that we see in Revelation.

What do you do with verses like Rev. 15:8?- And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

There are no pre trib verses. Nothing personal but I'll say it again, the idea of pre trib is a Frankenstein teaching, and like the monster in the story, it will one day turn on those who keep it alive. I haven't yet seen a single pre trib verse. Please post ONE.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

And so the great multitude tat no man can count, is there another rapture for them? Another resurrection too?

The great multitude is the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The gathering from the uttermost part of the earth will be the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth (not the nation of Israel). The gathering from the uttermost part of heaven will be the Church that will be in heaven via the pretribulation rapture (pre 70th week before the 7 seals are opened.)

So yes, the will be another rapture, the prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. And yes there will be another resurrection, and yes I am familiar with the scripture that says "this is the first resurrection."

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

It is the Day people will receive the eternal punishment as you yourself have now pointed to ...NOT trumpets and bowls.

The day of His wrath begins with the 1st trumpet or 1st vial and ends with the 7th trumpet or 7th vial.

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

What do you do with verses like Rev. 15:8?- And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.'

The 1st thing I would do is recall that the ones that came out of great tribulation are in the temple and that occurs before the seven plagues

Rev 7

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

¹⁵ Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The second thing I would do is recall that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne in the temple.

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Then I would go to the chapter in question and see what the deal was. And the answer is right there.

Rev 15

⁵ And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

There are no pre trib verses.

Sure there are. There are plenty of things that point to a pretrib rapture of the Church.

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Nothing personal but I'll say it again, the idea of pre trib is a Frankenstein teaching, and like the monster in the story,

It does not offend me at all for you to say what you believe. Shoot from the hip, I would prefer that.

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

it will one day turn on those who keep it alive.

The Word tells us exactly when the rapture will happen. I don't know how many people have proudly PINPOINTED exactly when the rapture will occur. There will be a falling away first and the man of sin will be revealed. Then the great tribulation will happen. And then  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

I mean, how many people have told me exactly when the rapture will happen and as many say, with pinpoint accuracy. The rapture is pinpointed. Jesus tells us exactly when He is coming. Hey, look up, your redemption draws nigh.

But, but, but, but, but

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

I haven't yet seen a single pre trib verse. Please post ONE.

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

There is no question that there will be a pretrib rapture of the Church. There are plenty of verses that point to a pre trib rapture, if you understand them. If God spelled out exactly when He was coming (which He does in Matt 24), how could He come in an hour that you think not?

[R. Hartono]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:43 PM, Uriah said:

There are no pre trib verses. Nothing personal but I'll say it again, the idea of pre trib is a Frankenstein teaching, and like the monster in the story, it will one day turn on those who keep it alive. I haven't yet seen a single pre trib verse. Please post ONE.

The wise virgins are taken but the foolish virgins are left behind n yell "Looooord,........

And God said "I knew you not" to those left behind, so don't say christians must go thru sufferings to justify being left behind.

Jesus is not the kind of Groom who beats His bride black n blue then behead her.

Rapture is that simple , people make it difficult.

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Alive
inappropriate content

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Quote

The great multitude is the gathering from heaven and earth.

Really? It is actually found in Rev.7:9- After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And only a few verses down the page it says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Further on we see that in the first resurrection people from the tribulation are referred to again. Rev. 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is only a rapture and resurrection that get these folks into the place where they are shown.

After the thousand years there is another resurrection. Surely we can count to...2!

Quote

 

Mark 13

Quote

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

This is also written in Matt 24. It is AFTER the sun is darkened blood red moon etc., the cataclysms listed in Revelation.

The gathering from the uttermost part of the earth will be the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth (not the nation of Israel). The gathering from the uttermost part of heaven will be the Church that will be in heaven via the pretribulation rapture (pre 70th week before the 7 seals are opened.)

So yes, the will be --another rapture, the prewrath rapture-- of the 12 tribes across the earth. And yes there will be another resurrection, and yes I am familiar with the scripture that says "this is the first resurrection."

The day of His wrath begins with the 1st trumpet or 1st vial and ends with the 7th trumpet or 7th vial.

 

This is the stuff of pre trib theory, partial quotes, scriptures colliding with scriptures etc.

Quote

The 1st thing I would do is recall that the ones that came out of great tribulation are in the temple and that occurs before the seven plagues

How about just BELIEVE the scriptures? NOBODY gets in until the plagues are over.

Rev 7

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

¹⁵ Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The second thing I would do is recall that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne in the temple.

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Quote

Then I would go to the chapter in question and see what the deal was. And the answer is right there.

And here is the deal, NOBODY gets in until.....

Rev 15

⁵ And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Quote

Sure there are. There are plenty of things that point to a pretrib rapture of the Church.

You may show one anytime.

It does not offend me at all for you to say what you believe. Shoot from the hip, I would prefer that.

The Word tells us exactly when the rapture will happen. I don't know how many people have proudly PINPOINTED exactly when the rapture will occur. There will be a falling away first and the man of sin will be revealed. Then the great tribulation will happen. And then  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

I mean, how many people have told me exactly when the rapture will happen and as many say, with pinpoint accuracy. The rapture is pinpointed. Jesus tells us exactly when He is coming. Hey, look up, your redemption draws nigh.

But, but, but, but, but

Matt 24

⁴² 

Quote

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This dosen't prove pre trib. The same applies in the post trib view.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

 

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

There is no question that there will be a pretrib rapture of the Church. There are plenty of verses that point to a pre trib rapture,------ if you understand them.------ If God spelled out exactly when He was coming (which He does in Matt 24), how could He come in an hour that you think not?

Ahhh, ----IF---- you understand them, meaning dismiss verses that contradict, accept a confusing incoherent conglomeration of partial quotes etc. No thanks.

[The Light]

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Really? It is actually found in Rev.7:9- After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Yeah, I'm fully aware of that. Which is why I quoted it in my post. Something seemed to go right over your head.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

And only a few verses down the page it says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Exactly. That's why I quoted it in my post. And if you keep reading (Which I already quoted) you will see that these that came out great tribulation were before the throne of God before the 7 vials were poured out.

Rev 7

¹⁵ Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Maybe the problem is that you don't understand that there is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. THE TRIBULATION IS OVER BEFORE ANY TRUMPETS OR VIALS HAPPEN. The Word says that IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days........The son of man comes. He is not there for Armageddon, He is there to send his angels to gather the elect from heaven earth PRIOR TO THE WRATH OF GOD.

Matt 24

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Further on we see that in the first resurrection people from the tribulation are referred to again. Rev. 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is only a rapture and resurrection that get these folks into the place where they are shown.

After the thousand years there is another resurrection. Surely we can count to...2!

Yep, 2. Agreed.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

This is the stuff of pre trib theory, partial quotes, scriptures colliding with scriptures etc.

There was no partial quotes. Don't take this personally, but it is your lack of understanding that is causing your problems.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

And here is the deal, NOBODY gets in until.....

Rev 15

⁵ And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Your response does not agree with the scriptures that I posted. So you want to tell me nobody gets in UNTIL. Nobody gets in where? To the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony. We can be assured that the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony IS NOT THE TEMPLE OF GOD WHERE THE THRONE IS. How do we know that? I showed you those that came out of great tribulation in Rev 7 were before the throne of God in the Temple. I also showed you that the 144,000 that were redeemed from the earth in Rev 13 were in the Temple. That is prior to the vials being poured out.

I'm not sure why you can't grasp that there are people before the throne in the Temple before the 7 vials are poured out. The temple of the tabernacle of the testimony is obviously not the same as the Temple of God where the throne is.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

You may show one anytime.

It's not a problem to show you. It is a problem to get you to see. Here is the SECRET pretrib rapture in the old testament.

Song of Solomon 2

⁸ The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

⁹ My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

¹⁰ My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

¹¹ For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

¹² The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

 

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

This dosen't prove pre trib. The same applies in the post trib view.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

I don't think so Tim. The Goodman will not be aware when he is going to come.

And yet Paul tells us

1 Thes 5

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Seems obvious that one group, the Church will not know when He is coming. And yet another group, the 12 tribes across the earth will not be taken by surprise. They know He is coming. They will be looking up and He is coming at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

44 minutes ago, Uriah said:

 

Ahhh, ----IF---- you understand them, meaning dismiss verses that contradict, accept a confusing incoherent conglomeration of partial quotes etc. No thanks.

I mean that you lack understanding. I don't know what you are talking about dismissing verses that contradict. The verse that you posted about no man entering the temple before the seven plagues were fullfilled was addressed completely. I showed you how it was your lack of understanding that was causing the problem. I showed you people in the temple before the throne of God BEFORE the 7 plagues were fullfilled. I showed that the throne of God was not in the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony.

So your comment is without merit.

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Ahhh, ----IF---- you understand them, meaning dismiss verses that contradict, accept a confusing incoherent conglomeration of partial quotes etc. No thanks.

The man of sin has been revealed alrdy only the world doesnt know who he will become.

He has more than a billion follower n will bring christianity n judaism into Arab religion.

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The man of sin has been revealed alrdy only the world doesnt know who he will become.

He has more than a billion follower n will bring christianity n judaism into Arab religion.

Can you explain what you are talking about, here?

[R. Hartono]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

Can you explain what you are talking about, here?

Antichrist has been revealed alrdy but this world doesnt recognize him.

He is the 8th king in his kingdom. As Revelation write it.

But he is not yet launched by the 1st seal opening to conquer the world with short peace.

Edited July 4, 2020 by R. Hartono