COVID-19: Rev 6:8 and 9:18

[The_Truth_Seeker]

34 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Interesting interpretations. I do not see the Pope entering the temple:

 ”the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) 

Maybe under Vatican I, when the pope could cry “infallibility” making himself sinless and God thinking for him, but Vatican II seriously curbed all of this. 

I was checking this verse an comparing it to the greek and I found something interesting, that requires questions to be asked. In 2 Thess 2:3, where it starts of "Let no man..............." The word "man" used here is based on the greek word G5100 tis  can relate to any person or object.  Now further on in 2 Thess 2:3 where you see the words "......and that man of sin ......." the word "man" used this time is G444 anthropos. Why the different greek words used? What is interesting is that going by strongs, anthropos can refer to a human being or man-faced.

Curious but what does man-faced mean? Look into the advances of robotics, you see some robots look so much like their creators, it quite amazing. The robots may have the face of a man, doesn't mean they are a man by definition.

So the question is, is the man of sin a man in the traditional sense, or something else? We live in a time period that because of the technologies, something may look like a duck, swim like a duck and quack like a duck, but in reality it may not be a duck, in which case requires further analysis and examination. 

[Don19]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Interesting interpretations. I do not see the Pope entering the temple:

 ”the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) 

Maybe under Vatican I, when the pope could cry “infallibility” making himself sinless and God thinking for him, but Vatican II seriously curbed all of this. 

The pope's title is "vicar of Christ" or "vicar of the Son of God," which essentially means antichrist. The Greek word "anti" means "in place of" and not just "opposed to." https://biblehub.com/greek/473.htm

"Vicar" is related to the word "vicarious" which means the same thing.

The "temple of God" here is just a reference to the fact that the pope leads a so-called church of Christ.

Vatican II didn't make the Roman Catholic Church any less of the antichrist religion it truly is. Catholicism still denies eternal security and holds itself out as the only true church. It still affirms papal infallibility. Rome changed its focus and now tries to absorb rather than persecute Bible-believing Christians.

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=vatican-ii-changed-only-protestants

[Don19]

49 minutes ago, ChickenCoop said:

Chick publications? We are quite smart for bird

1 Cor 3:18-20:King James Version

¹⁸ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

¹⁹ For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

²⁰ And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

 

1 Cor 1:23-31:

 

²³ But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

²⁴ But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

²⁵ Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

²⁶ For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

²⁷ But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

²⁸ And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

²⁹ That no flesh should glory in his presence.

³⁰ But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

³¹ That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Mat 11:25:

²⁵ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Don19

[Alive]

12 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

For documentation purposes Josheb, it's not records I'm looking for. I'm more interested in whether your faith in Christ is simply another one of your loquaciously articulated in well worded tabulated vocabulary of intellectual pursuits, being impressively brainy, or if you really have a zealous and passionate heart after God. You seem to thrive, almost feed, on topping all who encounter your biblical topics and doctrinal issues. Sure, you're a very smart guy. I'll give you all the credit on being impressive. It surely is. 

That's all besides the point for me. I intensely LOVE Jesus! I enjoy sharing His goodness and interacting in fellowship accordingly. Giving and taking of the wonders of His Spirit in my life and heart. Not merely a "head thing" where you appear to be from seeing enough of your style and demeanor in how you post. Have you made any endearing friendships in Christ here yet? These jabs you use aren't scoring any points other than being a "know-it-all". Respectfully saying, it would by all means be indicative of this. 

It's one of your favorite words. Here it is.  

  

FAIL

Where IS your heart, man? Where? So far I haven't seen it yet. 

 

 

@BeauJangles This is an unwarranted and personal attack and against the TOS. Please stop this kind of personal attack.

You are the one in the wrong, here.

[BeauJangles]

@BeauJangles This is an unwarranted and personal attack and against the TOS. Please stop this kind of personal attack.

You are the one in the wrong, here.

Very well, John. Warning duly noted. 

God bless, 

Dave

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by BeauJangles

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

How can the pope be the Man of Sin? For one, not even during the High Middle Ages did the Papacy crush and rule all nations: 

“And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation” (Revelation 13:7). 

China, Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, Japan, Russia, and many more were untouched by papal power, most were pagan, except Russia which was a different Church than Roman Catholicism called Russian Orthodox. 

The Papacy has always crushed and ruled all ("all" here being a generalisation, as it almost always is) nations, whether by force or subterfuge.  Romanism rules over paganism (in fact, Romanism IS paganism, combined with pseudo-Christianity).  Romanism and Eastern Orthodoxy are really two parts of the same pagan religion anyway.

Quote

Today the Pope has less control of nations than he did. He has embraced the Reformation, marking it a holiday. I cannot see Pope Francis I  raising an army and conquering the world, he’s liberal and more inclined to surrender Vatican City if it would save lives. 

The Vatican does not need to raise an army, since it controls the nations, from behind the scenes, anyway!  Do you realise how many wars have been caused by Romanism?  Abraham Lincoln said that there would have been no American Civil War, if it had not been for the Jesuits.  The Nazi SS were modelled on the Jesuits.  The wars against Protestants (literal and figurative), and many, many others have been fostered by Romanism, which claims authority over all leaders, countries and religions in the world.

The so-called "Pope" (a blasphemous title, meaning "Father") has an ENORMOUS amount of control.  The leaders of the world bow down and kiss his ring, numerous organisations seek his "spiritual guidance" and Jesuits have infiltrated every level of society.

Who do you think is in charge of the U. N.'s drive for a one world government/religion?  The latest "Pope" has been calling for the world to come together, politically and religiously.

 

Quote

 

The Man of Sin hasn’t risen.

He wasn’t a Roman Emperor because the Roman gave up on Albion or Britian, and built Hadrian’s Wall to keep the barbarians in check they couldn’t conquer. 

The Man of Sin/ Man of Lawlessness/ Beast of the Sea has yet to rise. 

 

The Man of Sin (i.e. the Pope) rose out of the Roman Empire and evil spiritual authority was transferred to him, when the title of Pontifex Maximus was bestowed upon him.

Futurism and Preterism were both invented by Jesuits, to take people's minds off the here and now, and away from real Whore of Babylon (Romanism) and anti-Christ (the so-called "Pope").

Edited July 17, 2020 by David1701

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, Don19 said:

The pope's title is "vicar of Christ" or "vicar of the Son of God," which essentially means antichrist. The Greek word "anti" means "in place of" and not just "opposed to." https://biblehub.com/greek/473.htm

"Vicar" is related to the word "vicarious" which means the same thing.

The "temple of God" here is just a reference to the fact that the pope leads a so-called church of Christ.

Vatican II didn't make the Roman Catholic Church any less of the antichrist religion it truly is. Catholicism still denies eternal security and holds itself out as the only true church. It still affirms papal infallibility. Rome changed its focus and now tries to absorb rather than persecute Bible-believing Christians.

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=vatican-ii-changed-only-protestants

According to Catholics: 

“Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi), a title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs… Feed my sheep” (John, xxi, 16, 17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostlesguardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicarand fulfilling the promise made in Matt. xvi, 18, 19. In the course of ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. “Inter corporalia”, 2, “De trans. ep.”). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. “Quanto”, 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is “the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ” (cap. “` Licet”, 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of Godused for the pope by Nicholas III (c. “Fundamenta ejus”, 17, “De elect.”, in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.”

-WILLIAM H. W. FANNING (Catholic Encylopedia, https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/vicar-of-christ) 

Your view of the Roman Church, and the Pope as antichrist was held by Martin Luther and others like Karlstadt.

However, me and you, and all Protestants would be speaking Arabic and forced to convert to Islam or live like the saints in Cappadocia in 3rd Century (in caves) had it not been for the Catholics defeating the Muslim Ottoman Turks at Malta (May 18-Sept 11th 1565), Lepanto (Oct 7th, 1571),m, Siege of Vienna (1683), and in the Ottoman-Hasburg Wars (1526-1791). Those miraclous victories ensured Christendom didn’t fall to Radical Islam. Even Martin Luther celebrated The Victory at Lepanto. 

I find it ironic the church you call the church of antichrist is responsible for making sure we who hold to eternal security and salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone are still here, free to have this discussion we are having right now. 

And let us not forget God did not protect The Eastern Orthodox Church in Tukey, its Eastern Roma, Byzantium, fell to the Ottoman Turks and that church was crushed and has had to survive mainly in the Third Rome, Russia and in Greece. In contrast, the Weat was protected, Western Roma did not fall to Islam. The Seat of Orthodoxy, in Istanbul lies in the shadow of the Crescent, the Seat of St. Peter does not, nor does our Protestant Churches. 

The Harlot of Babylon memtioned in Revelation 18, a city that sits on “seven hills” (Revelation 17:9) has since Luther been claimed to be Rome which has seven traditonal hills: 

• Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
• Caelian Hill (Cælius, Celio)
• Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
• Hillius Caesar (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
• Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
• Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
• Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

However, Rome has three more hills since antiquity: 

The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Latin Mons Pincius), lying to the north, and the Janiculum Hill (Latin Ianiculum). 

So Rome has 10 Hills total. 

Now Jerusalem does have seven hills:

1. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],
    
2. The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], 
    
3. The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). 
    
4. On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), 
    
5. The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],
    
6. To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],
    
7. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion."

And In Scripture Jerusalem is called a harlot:

“Jerusalem Is Unfaithful

The Lord said:

2 Ezekiel, son of man, remind the people of Jerusalem of their disgusting sins 3 and tell them that I, the Lord God, am saying:

Jerusalem, you were born in the country where Canaanites lived. Your father was an Amorite, and your mother was a Hittite.[a] 4 When you were born, no one cut you loose from your mother or washed your body. No one rubbed your skin with salt and olive oil,[b] and wrapped you in warm blankets. 5 Not one person loved you enough to do any of these things, and no one even felt sorry for you. You were despised, thrown into a field, and forgotten.

6 I saw you lying there, rolling around in your own blood, and I couldn’t let you die. 7 I took care of you, like someone caring for a tender, young plant. You grew up to be a beautiful young woman with perfect breasts and long hair, but you were still naked.

8 When I saw you again, you were old enough to have sex. So I covered your naked body with my own robe.[c] Then I solemnly promised that you would belong to me and that I, the Lord God, would take care of you.

9 I washed the blood off you and rubbed your skin with olive oil. 10 I gave you the finest clothes and the most expensive robes,[d] as well as sandals made from the best leather. 11 I gave you bracelets, a necklace, 12 a ring for your nose, some earrings, and a beautiful crown. 13 Your jewelry was gold and silver, and your clothes were made of only the finest material and embroidered linen. Your bread was baked from fine flour, and you ate honey and olive oil. You were as beautiful as a queen, 14 and everyone on earth knew it. I, the Lord God, had helped you become a lovely young woman.

15 You learned that you were attractive enough to have any man you wanted, so you offered yourself to every passerby.[e] 16 You made shrines for yourself and decorated them with some of your clothes. That’s where you took your visitors to have sex with them. These things should never have happened![f]17 You made idols out of the gold and silver jewelry I gave you, then you sinned by worshiping those idols. 18 You dressed them in the clothes you got from me, and you offered them the olive oil and incense I gave you. 19 I supplied you with fine flour, olive oil, and honey, but you sacrificed it all as offerings to please those idols. I, the Lord God, watched this happen.

20 But you did something even worse than that—you sacrificed your own children to those idols! 21 You slaughtered my children, so you could offer them as sacrifices. 22 You were so busy sinning and being a prostitute that you refused to think about the days when you were young and were rolling around naked in your own blood.

23 Now I, the Lord God, say you are doomed! Not only did you do these evil things, 24 but you also built places on every street corner 25 where you disgraced yourself by having sex with anyone who walked by. And you did that more and more every day! 26 To make me angry, you even offered yourself to Egyptians, who were always ready to sleep with you.

27 So I punished you by letting those greedy Philistine enemies take over some of your territory. But even they were offended by your disgusting behavior.

28 You couldn’t get enough sex, so you chased after Assyrians and slept with them. You still weren’t satisfied, 29 so you went after Babylonians. But those merchants could not satisfy you either.

30 I, the Lord God, say that you were so disgusting that you would have done anything to get what you wanted.[g] 31 You had sex on every street corner, and when you finished, you refused to accept money. That’s worse than being a prostitute! 32 You are nothing but an unfaithful wife who would rather have sex with strangers than with your own husband. 33 Prostitutes accept money for having sex, but you bribe men from everywhere to have sex with you. 34 You’re not like other prostitutes. Men don’t ask you for sex—you offer to pay them!” (Ezekiel16:1-34).

Note the line, “You [Jerusalem] were so busy sinning and being a prostitute (harlot)” (Ezekiel 16:22) 

So we have Scriptural evidence that the City Jerusalem has been a Harlot, and that it sits historically on seven hills (Revelation 17:9). 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

According to Catholics: 

“Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi), a title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs… Feed my sheep” (John, xxi, 16, 17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostlesguardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicarand fulfilling the promise made in Matt. xvi, 18, 19. In the course of ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. “Inter corporalia”, 2, “De trans. ep.”). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. “Quanto”, 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is “the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ” (cap. “` Licet”, 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of Godused for the pope by Nicholas III (c. “Fundamenta ejus”, 17, “De elect.”, in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.”

-WILLIAM H. W. FANNING (Catholic Encylopedia, https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/vicar-of-christ) 

Your view of the Roman Church, and the Pope as antichrist was held by Martin Luther and others like Karlstadt.

However, me and you, and all Protestants would be speaking Arabic and forced to convert to Islam or live like the saints in Cappadocia in 3rd Century (in caves) had it not been for the Catholics defeating the Muslim Ottoman Turks at Malta (May 18-Sept 11th 1565), Lepanto (Oct 7th, 1571),m, Siege of Vienna (1683), and in the Ottoman-Hasburg Wars (1526-1791). Those miraclous victories ensured Christendom didn’t fall to Radical Islam. Even Martin Luther celebrated The Victory at Lepanto. 

I find it ironic the church you call the church of antichrist is responsible for making sure we who hold to eternal security and salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone are still here, free to have this discussion we are having right now. 

And let us not forget God did not protect The Eastern Orthodox Church in Tukey, its Eastern Roma, Byzantium, fell to the Ottoman Turks and that church was crushed and has had to survive mainly in the Third Rome, Russia and in Greece. In contrast, the Weat was protected, Western Roma did not fall to Islam. The Seat of Orthodoxy, in Istanbul lies in the shadow of the Crescent, the Seat of St. Peter does not, nor does our Protestant Churches. 

The Harlot of Babylon memtioned in Revelation 18, a city that sits on “seven hills” (Revelation 17:9) has since Luther been claimed to be Rome which has seven traditonal hills: 

• Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
• Caelian Hill (Cælius, Celio)
• Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
• Hillius Caesar (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
• Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
• Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
• Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

However, Rome has three more hills since antiquity: 

The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Latin Mons Pincius), lying to the north, and the Janiculum Hill (Latin Ianiculum). 

So Rome has 10 Hills total. 

Now Jerusalem does have seven hills:

1. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],
    
2. The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], 
    
3. The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). 
    
4. On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), 
    
5. The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],
    
6. To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],
    
7. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion."

And In Scripture Jerusalem is called a harlot:

“Jerusalem Is Unfaithful

The Lord said:

2 Ezekiel, son of man, remind the people of Jerusalem of their disgusting sins 3 and tell them that I, the Lord God, am saying:

Jerusalem, you were born in the country where Canaanites lived. Your father was an Amorite, and your mother was a Hittite.[a] 4 When you were born, no one cut you loose from your mother or washed your body. No one rubbed your skin with salt and olive oil,[b] and wrapped you in warm blankets. 5 Not one person loved you enough to do any of these things, and no one even felt sorry for you. You were despised, thrown into a field, and forgotten.

6 I saw you lying there, rolling around in your own blood, and I couldn’t let you die. 7 I took care of you, like someone caring for a tender, young plant. You grew up to be a beautiful young woman with perfect breasts and long hair, but you were still naked.

8 When I saw you again, you were old enough to have sex. So I covered your naked body with my own robe.[c] Then I solemnly promised that you would belong to me and that I, the Lord God, would take care of you.

9 I washed the blood off you and rubbed your skin with olive oil. 10 I gave you the finest clothes and the most expensive robes,[d] as well as sandals made from the best leather. 11 I gave you bracelets, a necklace, 12 a ring for your nose, some earrings, and a beautiful crown. 13 Your jewelry was gold and silver, and your clothes were made of only the finest material and embroidered linen. Your bread was baked from fine flour, and you ate honey and olive oil. You were as beautiful as a queen, 14 and everyone on earth knew it. I, the Lord God, had helped you become a lovely young woman.

15 You learned that you were attractive enough to have any man you wanted, so you offered yourself to every passerby.[e] 16 You made shrines for yourself and decorated them with some of your clothes. That’s where you took your visitors to have sex with them. These things should never have happened![f]17 You made idols out of the gold and silver jewelry I gave you, then you sinned by worshiping those idols. 18 You dressed them in the clothes you got from me, and you offered them the olive oil and incense I gave you. 19 I supplied you with fine flour, olive oil, and honey, but you sacrificed it all as offerings to please those idols. I, the Lord God, watched this happen.

20 But you did something even worse than that—you sacrificed your own children to those idols! 21 You slaughtered my children, so you could offer them as sacrifices. 22 You were so busy sinning and being a prostitute that you refused to think about the days when you were young and were rolling around naked in your own blood.

23 Now I, the Lord God, say you are doomed! Not only did you do these evil things, 24 but you also built places on every street corner 25 where you disgraced yourself by having sex with anyone who walked by. And you did that more and more every day! 26 To make me angry, you even offered yourself to Egyptians, who were always ready to sleep with you.

27 So I punished you by letting those greedy Philistine enemies take over some of your territory. But even they were offended by your disgusting behavior.

28 You couldn’t get enough sex, so you chased after Assyrians and slept with them. You still weren’t satisfied, 29 so you went after Babylonians. But those merchants could not satisfy you either.

30 I, the Lord God, say that you were so disgusting that you would have done anything to get what you wanted.[g] 31 You had sex on every street corner, and when you finished, you refused to accept money. That’s worse than being a prostitute! 32 You are nothing but an unfaithful wife who would rather have sex with strangers than with your own husband. 33 Prostitutes accept money for having sex, but you bribe men from everywhere to have sex with you. 34 You’re not like other prostitutes. Men don’t ask you for sex—you offer to pay them!” (Ezekiel16:1-34).

Note the line, “You [Jerusalem] were so busy sinning and being a prostitute (harlot)” (Ezekiel 16:22) 

So we have Scriptural evidence that the City Jerusalem has been a Harlot, and that it sits historically on seven hills (Revelation 17:9). 

This all sounds rather jesuitical....

As for that crucifix avatar - get Christ off the cross!  He died once for all, never more to die.  The sacrifice is not to be repeated endlessly, in the blasphemy of the RC Mass.

[Don19]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

According to Catholics: 

“Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi), a title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs… Feed my sheep” (John, xxi, 16, 17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostlesguardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicarand fulfilling the promise made in Matt. xvi, 18, 19. In the course of ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. “Inter corporalia”, 2, “De trans. ep.”). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. “Quanto”, 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is “the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ” (cap. “` Licet”, 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of Godused for the pope by Nicholas III (c. “Fundamenta ejus”, 17, “De elect.”, in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.”

-WILLIAM H. W. FANNING (Catholic Encylopedia, https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/vicar-of-christ) 

Your view of the Roman Church, and the Pope as antichrist was held by Martin Luther and others like Karlstadt.

However, me and you, and all Protestants would be speaking Arabic and forced to convert to Islam or live like the saints in Cappadocia in 3rd Century (in caves) had it not been for the Catholics defeating the Muslim Ottoman Turks at Malta (May 18-Sept 11th 1565), Lepanto (Oct 7th, 1571),m, Siege of Vienna (1683), and in the Ottoman-Hasburg Wars (1526-1791). Those miraclous victories ensured Christendom didn’t fall to Radical Islam. Even Martin Luther celebrated The Victory at Lepanto. 

I find it ironic the church you call the church of antichrist is responsible for making sure we who hold to eternal security and salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone are still here, free to have this discussion we are having right now. 

And let us not forget God did not protect The Eastern Orthodox Church in Tukey, its Eastern Roma, Byzantium, fell to the Ottoman Turks and that church was crushed and has had to survive mainly in the Third Rome, Russia and in Greece. In contrast, the Weat was protected, Western Roma did not fall to Islam. The Seat of Orthodoxy, in Istanbul lies in the shadow of the Crescent, the Seat of St. Peter does not, nor does our Protestant Churches. 

The Harlot of Babylon memtioned in Revelation 18, a city that sits on “seven hills” (Revelation 17:9) has since Luther been claimed to be Rome which has seven traditonal hills: 

• Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
• Caelian Hill (Cælius, Celio)
• Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
• Hillius Caesar (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
• Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
• Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
• Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

However, Rome has three more hills since antiquity: 

The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Latin Mons Pincius), lying to the north, and the Janiculum Hill (Latin Ianiculum). 

So Rome has 10 Hills total. 

Now Jerusalem does have seven hills:

1. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],
    
2. The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], 
    
3. The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). 
    
4. On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), 
    
5. The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],
    
6. To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],
    
7. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion."

And In Scripture Jerusalem is called a harlot:

“Jerusalem Is Unfaithful

The Lord said:

2 Ezekiel, son of man, remind the people of Jerusalem of their disgusting sins 3 and tell them that I, the Lord God, am saying:

Jerusalem, you were born in the country where Canaanites lived. Your father was an Amorite, and your mother was a Hittite.[a] 4 When you were born, no one cut you loose from your mother or washed your body. No one rubbed your skin with salt and olive oil,[b] and wrapped you in warm blankets. 5 Not one person loved you enough to do any of these things, and no one even felt sorry for you. You were despised, thrown into a field, and forgotten.

6 I saw you lying there, rolling around in your own blood, and I couldn’t let you die. 7 I took care of you, like someone caring for a tender, young plant. You grew up to be a beautiful young woman with perfect breasts and long hair, but you were still naked.

8 When I saw you again, you were old enough to have sex. So I covered your naked body with my own robe.[c] Then I solemnly promised that you would belong to me and that I, the Lord God, would take care of you.

9 I washed the blood off you and rubbed your skin with olive oil. 10 I gave you the finest clothes and the most expensive robes,[d] as well as sandals made from the best leather. 11 I gave you bracelets, a necklace, 12 a ring for your nose, some earrings, and a beautiful crown. 13 Your jewelry was gold and silver, and your clothes were made of only the finest material and embroidered linen. Your bread was baked from fine flour, and you ate honey and olive oil. You were as beautiful as a queen, 14 and everyone on earth knew it. I, the Lord God, had helped you become a lovely young woman.

15 You learned that you were attractive enough to have any man you wanted, so you offered yourself to every passerby.[e] 16 You made shrines for yourself and decorated them with some of your clothes. That’s where you took your visitors to have sex with them. These things should never have happened![f]17 You made idols out of the gold and silver jewelry I gave you, then you sinned by worshiping those idols. 18 You dressed them in the clothes you got from me, and you offered them the olive oil and incense I gave you. 19 I supplied you with fine flour, olive oil, and honey, but you sacrificed it all as offerings to please those idols. I, the Lord God, watched this happen.

20 But you did something even worse than that—you sacrificed your own children to those idols! 21 You slaughtered my children, so you could offer them as sacrifices. 22 You were so busy sinning and being a prostitute that you refused to think about the days when you were young and were rolling around naked in your own blood.

23 Now I, the Lord God, say you are doomed! Not only did you do these evil things, 24 but you also built places on every street corner 25 where you disgraced yourself by having sex with anyone who walked by. And you did that more and more every day! 26 To make me angry, you even offered yourself to Egyptians, who were always ready to sleep with you.

27 So I punished you by letting those greedy Philistine enemies take over some of your territory. But even they were offended by your disgusting behavior.

28 You couldn’t get enough sex, so you chased after Assyrians and slept with them. You still weren’t satisfied, 29 so you went after Babylonians. But those merchants could not satisfy you either.

30 I, the Lord God, say that you were so disgusting that you would have done anything to get what you wanted.[g] 31 You had sex on every street corner, and when you finished, you refused to accept money. That’s worse than being a prostitute! 32 You are nothing but an unfaithful wife who would rather have sex with strangers than with your own husband. 33 Prostitutes accept money for having sex, but you bribe men from everywhere to have sex with you. 34 You’re not like other prostitutes. Men don’t ask you for sex—you offer to pay them!” (Ezekiel16:1-34).

Note the line, “You [Jerusalem] were so busy sinning and being a prostitute (harlot)” (Ezekiel 16:22) 

So we have Scriptural evidence that the City Jerusalem has been a Harlot, and that it sits historically on seven hills (Revelation 17:9). 

Let’s rather thank God, seeing that He works all things after the counsel of His own will.

Rom 8:28:

²⁸ And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

God is sovereign over all things, including evil, including the antichrist. Should we thank Satan or Judas for their wicked actions in crucifying Jesus—without which, we’d have no salvation? Of course not! We thank God for our salvation! We thank Jesus for laying down His own life for us. We thank God that He uses even the wicked deeds for men for our ultimate good! Which is why this suggestion to thank Catholicism for anything is preposterous.

Our battle is spiritual, not carnal.
  2 Cor 10:4:

⁴ (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

Physical warfare has no spiritual significance for us. We can and should recognize God’s sovereign hand in it, however.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Don19

[Fidei Defensor]

19 minutes ago, Don19 said:

Let’s rather thank God, seeing that He works all things after the counsel of His own will.

Rom 8:28:

²⁸ And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

God is sovereign over all things, including evil, including the antichrist. Should we thank Satan or Judas for their wicked actions in crucifying Jesus—without which, we’d have no salvation? Of course not! We thank God for our salvation! We thank Jesus for laying down His own life for us. We thank God that He uses even the wicked deeds for men for our ultimate good! Which is why this suggestion to thank Catholicism for anything is preposterous.

Our battle is spiritual, not carnal. Physical warfare has no spiritual significance for us. We can and should recognize God’s sovereign hand in it, however.

I had this same conversation with a pastor who said “God didn’t need Martin Luther! He was antisemite! God could have chose someone else to reform the church!” (Pastor B.). To which I said, “yes, God could have used someone else, but he used Luther.” The pastor responded, “that is true.” The same can be said of Winston Churchill, often regarded as a man of ill repute, but he was the man England needed to help Britisn stand against the Nazis in World War II. 

God gets the glory, Soli del Gloria, but he operates predominately in conjuction and through partnership with men.  Just as He partnered with Abraham, Moses, David,  Peter, John, and Paul. God did do miracles at the battles of Malta, Lepanto, Siege of Vienna, and etc; surely legions of unseen angels did battle in spirit realm, but there were also physical armies of men who were Roman Catholic who partnered in this effort to stop Radical Islamic Imperialism.  Just as there will be physical armies and heavenly ones at Armageddon. 

God choses to bridge the physical and spiritual realms. Hence Christ, who is the very same God in the flesh, who spiritually secured our salvation and eternal life through a physical death in a body on the cross; making an all sufficent sacrifice for our sins. 

I thank God for his miracles ar Malta, Lepanto, and Vienna, but I also thank his partners, The Catholic leagues and legions who fought to safeguard Christianity.  Just as it took Joshua, Caleb, and armies of Israel to take Canaan with the help of God via Moses with raised arms and spiritual intercessions of the priests, sp it took Catholic Armies and the Lord’s miraclous  interventions to stop the Ottomans. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Fidei Defensor