The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...
EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PERSON WHO ACCEPTS CHRIST AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOUR BECOMES ABRAHAMS SEED.  
Agreed!
HOW DID GODS PLAN CHANGE??
Who said it changed? Israel as a nation rejected Jesus so He turned to the Gentiles. 
SALVATION WAS OFFERED TO THE GENTILE NATIONS.  
Agreed!
GOD DIDN'T MAKE A SEPARATE PLAN FOR THEM.  
Yes, He did: it is Paul's gospel, specific to the Gentiles.
GOD BROUGHT THEM IN AMONGST THOSE HE HAD ALREADY CHOSEN
Yes, Grafted into the Jewish tree.
HE BLINDED THOSE ALREADY AND FOREVER HIS  TILL HE COULD CALL ALL THE GENTILE NATIONS TO JOIN (AMONGST OTHER THINGS) UNTIL EVERYONE, EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO WAS AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN.
He blinded Israel
THE SECOND THEY ACCEPT SALVATION THEY BECOME  EXACTLY  THE SAME AS THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM,  If you mean they as the Jews, when they do turn to Jesus, you will be very hard pressed to find that they too will be born again.


THERE IS NO CHURCH AGE IN THE WORD OF GOD. 
Yes, it is there; maybe not in those words.  Ephesians 3:2  if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN DOES NOT END AN AGE, IT ENDS A CALLING
Yes it does: the dispensation of Grace given to Paul for the Gentiles
A CALLING FOR WHAT????   TO BECOME ABRAHAMS SEED.  

WHAT IT DOES NOT DO IS SET UP A GROUP FOR A PRE TRIB RAP OR ELSE ALL OF ABRAHAMS SEED WOULD BE CHANGING AT THE SAME TIME  (WHICH THEY WILL BUT NOT BEFORE SATAN COMES TO DECEIVE
This is not bible: it is imagination.  Yes, we are SPIRITUAL seed of Abraham. That means BORN AGAIN; the rapture is ONLY for those born again. The physical seed of Abraham that is not born again will not be caught up at the rapture. 

WE ARE EITHER ABRAHAMS SEED OR WE ARE GENTILE.   Wrong. the church is the SPIRITUAL seed of Abraham.

The truth is, the moment someone is born again, whether Jew or Greek, they instantly become Abraham's SPIRITUAL seed. When the Jews that will flee see Jesus, and believe in Him, THEN they will be His true physical seed. through the bloodline, all descendants of Jacob are seeds of Abraham, but if they don't ever believe Jesus is their messiah, they will be lost forever. It won't matter whose seed they are if they are in hell. 

[The Light]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Hello The Light,

Hey Dennis. Hope all is well.

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

You and others have raised interesting points pertaining to provoking the Jew's to jealousy and when the Rapture occurs in your views; and raises some interesting questions to ponder. Providing my biblical view and understanding is correct, the first three and one half years of the tribulation; Israel and the Jew's are living in relative peace. As they are living under the umbrella of a false covenant from the Antichrist. It appears all Hell breaks loose in Israel and for the Jew's beginning at the abomination of desolation, when Antichrist is in the Temple declaring himself as god. At this point forward, it's the point of God's wrath, and mentioned as "the time of Jacob's trouble". The Jew's as a nation will not call upon the name of Jesus to return and save them until it's hopeless and a last resort.

 

After the Church is raptured, pre trib, God will turn His attention to His Chosen People. Lots of people think that there will be three and a half years of relative peace. I look at things quite differently. After the 70th week of Daniel begins, the rider on the white horse, AN Antichrist, goes forth conquering and to conquer. This is the 7th king. When we look in Matthew 24 we can see that nations rise against nations and kingdoms against kingdoms, and there is famine and pestilence. So this is not a peaceful walk in the park like many think as the four horsemen of the apocalypse ride. This 7th king is given the stephanos crown. He will be the leader of the UN. This 7th king will take away the daily sacrifice on day 1185 of the 70th week. This 7th king will give his power to the eighth king, THE Antichrist, and 1290 days after the sacrifice is taken away, the abomination of desolation is set up. The great tribulation is 45 days long and then Jesus returns, for a rapture of the 12 tribes. This happens at the 6th seal, which is the same coming that you see in Matthew 24. At this coming, Jesus will rapture the 12 tribes across the earth and then the wrath of God will begin. The 70th week Daniel, the time of Jacobs trouble, the tribulation, is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Then there is time, times and half a time, wrath of God. Those in the nation of Israel that flee when the abomination of desolation is set up will be protected and Satan will go after the remnant of her seed. The remnant of the seed of the woman is the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth.

In summary, the 1st three and a half years are not a picnic. Secondly the week is over when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. Then there is still 1260 days of the wrath of God.

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 

Question: If the Rapture of the church has previously occurred, and millions of true born again believers and the true church are no longer walking the planet; as a nation, why are the Jew's not provoked to jealousy and accept their Messiah they rejected? I can only think of a few logical explanations in my finite gray matter.

 

The Jews that are scattered across the earth WILL SEE that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah. We see 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. That means that there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth, which will happen when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. We can see this harvest in Matt 24 and at the end of Revelation 14. However, the nation of Israel will not see that Jesus is the Messiah at this point. Only part of Israel will have it's blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 

[1] Global communications have been temporarily disrupted by the power of the Resurrection / Rapture, EMP or CME or something, and they don't know about it?

 

The pretribulation rapture, the early summer wheat harvest, will be a secret rapture. The only people that will see the Messiah are the Church. The bride are those that have oil, that are READY, and WATCHING for the bridegroom.

Song of Solomon

⁸ The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

⁹ My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

¹⁰ My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

¹¹ For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

¹² The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

¹³ The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 

[2] This is a period of unprecedented supernatural signs and wonders. The very first warning Jesus gives in Luke 21:8 and Matthew 24:4 is; "take heed that ye be not deceived." Perhaps Israel as a nation believes the 'lie' and signs and wonders the Antichrist and False Prophet puts forth? What would be so powerful, that in this day of 'enlightenment' would be accepted and believed?

 

Jesus says in Matt 24:4-5 to beware of false Christs. This lines up with the rider of the white horse, the 7th king, in Revelation. Then later in Matt 24 we see the abomination of desolation and Jesus gives another warning.

Matt 24

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

This is the eighth king THE Antichrist.

On 8/11/2020 at 8:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 

Does the following sound plausible? Look at how long we've been conditioned and brain washed about UFO's through a myriad of purported events, books, documentaries, movies and TV shows. The millions globally that have witnessed them. The millions spent on UFO investigations by global governments, NGO's, SETI, and the now soft disclosure of our government releasing video footage of fighter jets chasing UFO'S performing maneuvers and speeds that defy our physical laws. Active duty Field grade military officers giving official news media interviews on the subject. The military changing and modifying protocol and procedures for UFO encounters and reporting procedures, etc. The many atheist secular geneticists now admitting it's impossible DNA could have formed by evolution and chance, but was designed. Now they've changed their tune to fit it into their religion of evolution that; our planet and the universe must have been "seeded" by advanced extraterrestrial life [panspermia]. 

Thoughts??

Of course this is exactly what will happen. They've been pumping the alien abduction sunshine for years and years. As soon as the Church is gone, people will see plenty of UFO's. There is probably many built around the world. All they have to do is build something the world has never seen before, like a giant wedge or something else. If they could build a blimp that was almost the length of three football fields in 1937, imagine what they could build today. And don't forget about Project Blue Beam, a Holographic Projection. They can project anything they want in the sky, and with the world, seeing is believing.

[iamlamad]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:26 PM, Spock said:

Hey iamlad,

if you don’t mind, I would like for you to make a case against my thinking below. Ready.... I’m thinking....

1. The 4 horsemen and the 5th seal were released when Jesus ascended to heaven and have been going throughout the world for the past 2000.

2. The seals are basically the birth pains from Matthew 24

3. The Bible doesn’t say the church is exempt from the entire week of Daniel 70, only the wrath of God. Therefore, the only guarantee we have is that the church will be lifted out before the releasing of the trumpets and bowls. 
4.  Just because the 70th week is for Israel and Jerusalem doesn’t necessarily mean the church has to be gone before the week begins.

5. the confirmation of a covenant begins the 70th week, not the rapture. 
6. the only guarantee the Bible says is that the church won’t be here during the great tribulation (second 3.5 years). The Bible doesn’t say anything about the entire week (7 years) being tribulation. 
7. People who believe in a Pre tribulation rapture actually believe in a Pre 70th week rapture. Thus, they should change their label to Pre 70th week rapture instead. 
 

Looking forward to your responses. Thanks for doing this. It may help me sort out some confusion I’m experiencing. This may also lead to further thoughts and questions. 

spock 

1. The 4 horsemen and the 5th seal were released when Jesus ascended to heaven and have been going throughout the world for the past 2000. Agreed

2. The seals are basically the birth pains from Matthew 24 That would be seals 2 through 4 only.

3. The Bible doesn’t say the church is exempt from the entire week of Daniel 70, only the wrath of God. Therefore, the only guarantee we have is that the church will be lifted out before the releasing of the trumpets and bowls.  The trumpets and bowls make up the 70th week.

4.  Just because the 70th week is for Israel and Jerusalem doesn’t necessarily mean the church has to be gone before the week begins. I think it does mean that.

5. the confirmation of a covenant begins the 70th week, not the rapture.  True. But that confirmation may well be done in secret. You notice, John and Jesus were both silent on the start of the week.

6. the only guarantee the Bible says is that the church won’t be here during the great tribulation (second 3.5 years). The Bible doesn’t say anything about the entire week (7 years) being tribulation.  No, the guarantee is that we won't be here for His wrath. But it happens, His wrath covers the entire week. However, added to that is Daniel telling us that the week is for HIS people. 

7. People who believe in a Pre tribulation rapture actually believe in a Pre 70th week rapture. Thus, they should change their label to Pre 70th week rapture instead.  True, but it will not happen.

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

As I said, it was used only once and that in a very minor way, as the day of the week that John was caught up in the Spirit. We cannot try and put words in John's mouth as of to say he SHOULD have used this word or that word. he said, "I was in the spirit on the Lord's day." Plain and simple. So this is the ONLY verse we have to determine the meaning. Some people, in error, imagine He was transported in time to the future Day of the Lord." I don't buy that theory either, for when the vision first started, God was showing John a vision of the throne room while Jesus was still on the earth - or under the earth. I disagree that He rose on a Saturday, the Sabbath. At lease He was first SEEN early Sunday morning. So the early believers started gathering on that day. One thing is certain, John never called "the Day of the Lord" as "the Lord's day," nor did any other NT writer. 

I don't think "the Lord's day" has much to do with the title of the book, either, except both include "the Lord."  

So IF, and thats a very big if,  John used "the Lords Day" for the Sabbath, 


 What would he have used for "the day He had Satan bound for 1000 years"  I was taken to the MIllennium???  


i CAN NOT SEE,  something ALWAYS CALLED SABBATH in the WORD


then on THE ONE occasion, something is addressed as  THE LORDS DAY, say, nah,  That means Sabbath.  

[The Light]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

1. The 4 horsemen and the 5th seal were released when Jesus ascended to heaven and have been going throughout the world for the past 2000. Agreed

 

So you think that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse have already been released? Not a chance.

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2. The seals are basically the birth pains from Matthew 24 That would be seals 2 through 4 only.

 

The 1st 6 seals are shown in Matthew 24, beginning with the false Christ rider of the white horse.

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3. The Bible doesn’t say the church is exempt from the entire week of Daniel 70, only the wrath of God. Therefore, the only guarantee we have is that the church will be lifted out before the releasing of the trumpets and bowls.  The trumpets and bowls make up the 70th week.

 

The 70th week is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. That is the same coming that you see in Matt 24 and Rev 14. The trumpets and vials are the wrath of God and have nothing to do with the 70th week. None of God's people are appointed to wrath. The nation of Israel will be in a protected place during the wrath of God.

Quote

4.  Just because the 70th week is for Israel and Jerusalem doesn’t necessarily mean the church has to be gone before the week begins. I think it does mean that.

 

The twelve tribes across the earth will not have their eyes opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, at the pre tribulation, pre 70th week rapture. Many of the twelve tribes across will have their eyes opened and will be raptured pre wrath. But not the nation of Israel as they remain on earth during the wrath of God.

Quote

5. the confirmation of a covenant begins the 70th week, not the rapture.  True. But that confirmation may well be done in secret. You notice, John and Jesus were both silent on the start of the week.

 

The week begins at the confirmation of a covenant. After that, the 7th king, false Christ, rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Quote

6. the only guarantee the Bible says is that the church won’t be here during the great tribulation (second 3.5 years). The Bible doesn’t say anything about the entire week (7 years) being tribulation.  No, the guarantee is that we won't be here for His wrath. But it happens, His wrath covers the entire week. However, added to that is Daniel telling us that the week is for HIS people. 

 

The great tribulation is 45 days long. The daily sacrifice is taken away of day 1185. 1290 days later the abomination of desolation is set up. Jesus returns at the 6th seal 45 days later.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Quote

7. People who believe in a Pre tribulation rapture actually believe in a Pre 70th week rapture. Thus, they should change their label to Pre 70th week rapture instead.  True, but it will not happen.

The 70th week is the tribulation and the last 45 days is the great tribulation. The week ends with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14. Jesus is coming for a harvest.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Jesus comes for harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth. Those that remain on earth after this harvest are cast into the wrath of God.

What you see in Rev 14 is exactly what you see in Rev 6, which is exactly what you see in Matt 24.

Jesus does not return to set up His kingdom UNTIL THE END OF WRATH.  See the armies of heaven coming at the end of Rev 19.

Edited August 14, 2020 by The Light

[DeighAnn]

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and notable day of the Lord come:

 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (how are we saved?  call on the name of the Lord) 


BEFORE WHEN?           

BEFORE THE GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.  


WHEN does Jesus come?  Like a thief in THE NIGHT. 
 
WHEN did the Bridegroom come?  in THE NIGHT

WHY do virgins need oil?  because it is THE  NIGHT
 
WHY do they need xtra oil?  not to buy and sell IN THE NIGHT aka take the mark of the beast




THE 6TH SEAL.  THE NUMBER  6   -  MANIFESTION OF SIN  -   WEAKNESS OF MAN   -  EVILS OF SATAN

It is Satan that is kick out in the 6th seal.  IT is Satan and his angels that are UNTIMELY FIGS/BAD FIGS/EVIL FIGS. 

It is the workings of Satan in the 6th seal,  THE DAY TURNED TO NIGHT BY THE SUN  BECOMING BLACK




It is only AT THE END of the 6th seal that those on earth SEE WHAT IS COMING. 

 IS THE 7TH , THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THEM TO SEEK PROTECTION,

The 7th seal  THE LORDS DAY 



back to the 6th
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


BLACK  - IS THIS SPOKEN OF ANOTHER TIME?  I do realize the sun will be "darkened" by the brightness of the Lord, but this is BLACK, not darkened  THIS IS DAY INTO NIGHT

SACKCLOTH - A SIGN OF MOURNING - will we not be rejoicing when CHRIST RETURNS?  Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand this tempting of the world to worship the antichrist.  They will see the system that takes oh so good care of the world bringing the PEACE AND SAFETY and worship of the image FOR EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.  A LIE/DECEPTION.  So good is he that God had to shorten the time or else even the ELECT would be deceived by him.  THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST SCARY STATEMENTS IN THE WORD OF GOD.  

MOON BECAME AS BLOOD  - The moon, as blood.  Who is coming to steal our souls?  BLOODSHED what is that SPIRITUALLY?  

UNTIMELY FIGS  -  

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT FIGS? 

Jeremiah 24:2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

Jeremiah 24:3 Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.


DEPARTED AS A SCROLL? 

THAT IS SO DIFFERENT  -   IT MUST BE NOTED

Absolutely powers are going to be moved out of their places, Satan and his minions have come to the earth to issue OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS fire and brimstone and smoke/lies/deception.  AND the whole world will be deceived.



Yet it has to end, AND IT ENDS  when Jesus is seen coming, the 7th seal 

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

DO YOU SEE IT???  AFTER ALL SATANS WORKINGs DOES THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH COME.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

DO YOU SEE IT???  AFTER ALL SATANS WORKINGS DOES THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH COME.  



THE 7TH SEAL.  7 , THE NUMBER  OF  SPIRITUAL PERFECTION

The Lords Day  -  THE SUN ONLY DARKENED BECAUSE OF HIS BRIGHTNESS

 

2  Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

 

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

Isaiah 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in His going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isaiah 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

Isaiah 13:15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

 

Joel 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Joel 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

Joel 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Joel 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

So you think that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse have already been released? Not a chance.

The 1st 6 seals are shown in Matthew 24, beginning with the false Christ rider of the white horse.

The 70th week is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. That is the same coming that you see in Matt 24 and Rev 14. The trumpets and vials are the wrath of God and have nothing to do with the 70th week. None of God's people are appointed to wrath. The nation of Israel will be in a protected place during the wrath of God.

The twelve tribes across the earth will not have their eyes opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, at the pre tribulation, pre 70th week rapture. Many of the twelve tribes across will have their eyes opened and will be raptured pre wrath. But not the nation of Israel as they remain on earth during the wrath of God.

The week begins at the confirmation of a covenant. After that, the 7th king, false Christ, rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

The great tribulation is 45 days long. The daily sacrifice is taken away of day 1185. 1290 days later the abomination of desolation is set up. Jesus returns at the 6th seal 45 days later.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The 70th week is the tribulation and the last 45 days is the great tribulation. The week ends with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14. Jesus is coming for a harvest.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Jesus comes for harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth. Those that remain on earth after this harvest are cast into the wrath of God.

What you see in Rev 14 is exactly what you see in Rev 6, which is exactly what you see in Matt 24.

Jesus does not return to set up His kingdom UNTIL THE END OF WRATH.  See the armies of heaven coming at the end of Rev 19.

So you think that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse have already been released?  No, I don't think they have - I KNOW they have. 
White horse and rider: THE CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL
Red, Black, Pale horses and riders: the devil's attempts to stop the gospel
Seal 5: the martyrs of the church age.

You can imagine anything you wish about these, but if you imagine they are future, you are wrong.

The 70th week is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. You are so far from the truth it is a waste of time to answer. Prewrath is error from start to finish. You have the days of GT in the seals, while John and the Holy Spirit have them only begin after the warning not to take the mark in chapter 14. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and notable day of the Lord come:

 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (how are we saved?  call on the name of the Lord) 


BEFORE WHEN?           

BEFORE THE GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.  


WHEN does Jesus come?  Like a thief in THE NIGHT. 
 
WHEN did the Bridegroom come?  in THE NIGHT

WHY do virgins need oil?  because it is THE  NIGHT
 
WHY do they need xtra oil?  not to buy and sell IN THE NIGHT aka take the mark of the beast




THE 6TH SEAL.  THE NUMBER  6   -  MANIFESTION OF SIN  -   WEAKNESS OF MAN   -  EVILS OF SATAN

It is Satan that is kick out in the 6th seal.  IT is Satan and his angels that are UNTIMELY FIGS/BAD FIGS/EVIL FIGS. 

It is the workings of Satan in the 6th seal,  THE DAY TURNED TO NIGHT BY THE SUN  BECOMING BLACK




It is only AT THE END of the 6th seal that those on earth SEE WHAT IS COMING. 

 IS THE 7TH , THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THEM TO SEEK PROTECTION,

The 7th seal  THE LORDS DAY 



back to the 6th
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
 

...

Joel 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

Joel 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Joel 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

Just so you can know the REAL order of events:

1 thes 4:15:
1: Jesus comes with a shout

2: the dead in Christ rise - causing a worldwide earthquake: Paul's sudden destruction

3. the earth begins to shake

4. Two groups of people get two different results: those in Christ get raptured and escape God's wrath - those in darkness GET His wrath: Paul's sudden destruction earthquake.

5. Those in Christ are gathered and on their way to meet Christ in the clouds.

6. Paul's "sudden destruction" earthquake is worldwide - because the dead in Christ are worldwide.

7. THE DAY of the LORD starts with this earthquake. God's WRATH begins with this earthquake / sudden destruction The church age has ENDED.

(In Revelation this will take place a moment before the 6th seal: rapture first, then sudden destruction earthquake of the 6th seal. But the "tribulation" or 70th week does not start until the 7th seal - I am guessing ten days later (the ten days of awe).)

8. Next will come the 7th seal that starts the 70th week and the  first 6 trumpet judgments

9. The man of sin enters Jerusalem with his Gentile armies: the city will be trampled for 42 months. The Two witnesses show up and begin witnessing. (11:1-3)

9b. The armies of the man of sin trample Jerusalem

10. Then the 7th trumpet will sound and mark the exact midpoint. The man of sin enters the temple and those watching see the abomination. The Kingdoms of the word are given to Jesus Christ. He does NOT take possession at this time: no "coming" at the 7th trumpet.

11. A second or two later, 12:6 takes place and those in Judea begin to flee. They saw the abomination.

12: As those in Judea begin to flee, Michael is going after Satan to cast him down.
Satan goes after those that flee, then turns on all those who love Jesus.

13. John sees the beast arising; The false prophet shows up, and John tells us what the Beast and the False Prophet will do: erect an image and create a mark.

14. God sends three angels to warn people to worship God, Babylon is fallen is fallen, to worship God, and not to take the mark.

15. The image is erected. The mark is created and now enforcement begins: any who refuse to bow will lose their head. The days of Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of begins. (late in chapter 14)

16. the beheaded begin to show up in heaven. (chapter 15)

17. The beast and False prophet go nuts - on a murder rampage! It seems - there may be no elect that will escape.

18. God pours out the vials of His wrath - probably the first 6 in one hour of time. this SHORTENS the days of great tribulation: TIME will go on but no tribulation associated with it. The armies of the beast are stopped. The 42 months of authority will continue on until Jesus returns.

19. The two witnesses are killed just 3.5 days before the end of the week. The 1260 days of testifying is over. 

20: The armies of the beast move out into the valley in preparation for Armageddon.
The 42 months of trampling are over.

21. The 7th vial is poured out. The Old TEstament saints rise, along with the Two Witnesses and the beheaded. The days of GT are over. The entire 70th week is over. Jesus remains in heaven.

22: The marriage and supper are taking place in heaven. The marriage had to wait for the guests: the Old Testament saints to be resurrected.

23: Jesus returns to earth WITH His bride. Armageddon takes place.

24: the Beast and false prophet are caught. The 42 months of authority are over. The 1260 days of fleeing and the 3.5 years of protection are over.

25: the 1290 days and the 1335 days comes into play about here.

THIS is John's chronology. Any thing other than this is myth

Edited August 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So IF, and thats a very big if,  John used "the Lords Day" for the Sabbath, 


 What would he have used for "the day He had Satan bound for 1000 years"  I was taken to the MIllennium???  


i CAN NOT SEE,  something ALWAYS CALLED SABBATH in the WORD


then on THE ONE occasion, something is addressed as  THE LORDS DAY, say, nah,  That means Sabbath.  

IF Jesus rose on a Sunday, which is tradition and many believe it - why not call it "the Lord's day?" It was the day HE CHOSE to rise.
Millennium:  The word millennium derives from the Latin mille, thousand, and annus, year. Sorry, the bible does not use that word. We use it. The closed John gets to that is the 1000 years. Neither do I think John wrote "I was taken" anywhere. He didn't even say He was called up to heaven. He gave us a huge hint that he was: God said, "come up here." 

As you suggested before, if it was the Sabbath, Saturday, when John was in the spirit, we could guess he would have written that. But He wrote "the Lord's day." 

 

Lord's Day - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Lord's_Day
The Lord's Day in Christianity is generally Sunday, the principal day of communal worship. It is observed by most Christians as the weekly memorial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is said in some of the canonical Gospels to have been witnessed alive from the dead early on the first day of the week.

 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

So you think that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse have already been released?  No, I don't think they have - I KNOW they have. 
White horse and rider: THE CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL

This is just something that you have imagined. The rider on the white horse is a false christ.

 

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Red, Black, Pale horses and riders: the devil's attempts to stop the gospel

More imagination, zero scriptural support.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Seal 5: the martyrs of the church age.

Seal 5: the Great Tribulation.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You can imagine anything you wish about these, but if you imagine they are future, you are wrong.

Ye are the one with the imagination. I just put things where the Word says they go.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

The 70th week is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. You are so far from the truth it is a waste of time to answer.

Oh Grasshopper.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Prewrath is error from start to finish. You have the days of GT in the seals,

Of course I have the Great Tribulation in the seals. That is exactly where it belongs. We don't need to imagine that the Great Tribulation is anywhere but where the Word says it is.

Rev 6

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Not only can we see the Great Tribulation in the 5th seal, but we get a confirmation in Rev 7

Rev 7

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If you would only put things exactly where the word says they go, it all fits together perfectly. No sledge hammer needed, no imagination needed, just put things where the Word says they go. It's simple.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

while John and the Holy Spirit have them only begin after the warning not to take the mark in chapter 14. 

 

Oh, so you see that. That's good. Now look at the 7th trump and you will see that the wrath of God is over. What you are looking at in Rev 14 takes place in the seals. At the end of Rev 14 we see the coming of Jesus. Oh, look, we have the same coming Jesus at the 6th seal. Then what? We get another look of those that got victory over the beast. They came out of the Great Tribulation. AND THEY ARE SINGING THE SONG OF MOSES. They are the raptured 12 tribes across the earth. This is not the Church as we can see the Church in heaven in Rev 5. NO IMAGINATION NECESSARY. No sledgehammer necessary.

Rev 15

² And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

³ And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

If you would stop dreaming all this stuff up and just put things where the Word says they go, everything fits together perfectly.