The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, The Light said:

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

does it say WATCH to be taken/rapped away?  OR DOES IT SAY WATCH SO THE HOUSE ISN'T BROKEN UP?  WHAT DOES A WATCHMAN DO?  HE PROTECTS THE HOUSE,  HE WARNS OTHERS WHEN DANGER IS COMING.  

so

HE WOULD HAVE WATCHED FOR 

THE COMING DECEPTION. 


 THE FIRST WARNING JESUS GIVES US.  
***** DO NOT BE DECEIVED *****

WHO IS COMING TO BREAK UP THE HOUSE?

WATCH, be on duty.  Jobs to do. 
Don't fall asleep.  What happen to the man who was put on watch during war if he was found sleeping,  He was put to death.  

  

 

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, The Light said:

l the fullness of the Gentiles comes in

 

Back to Romans WHAT IS THE SUBJECT?  

Gods children.  The comings and goings.  The reasons why. The branches cut off.  The branches grafted in.  The cut off branches re grafted in.  The reasons why.  

SO WHAT DOES THE FULLNESS OF the gentiles 

MEAN TO ME?  UNTILL ALL THE GENTILES/NATIONS/HEATHEN HAVE RECEIVED the good news and have been called to salvation.  WHEN the WORD has been spread around the whole world and THE WORLD HAS been offered the truth, 

the FULNESS OF THE GENTILES/NATIONS/HEATHENS WILL HAVE COME IN.  

Now I f I get you right

SOMEHOW YOU HAVE TAKEN "jealousy" and

MADE IT TO MEAN   Pre trib rap at the fullness of the gentiles AND that is what takes the blindness off.    

BUT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT ANYWHERE DOES IT?  

THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT OF MAN. 

WE CAN'T MAKE UP OUR OWN STUFF OUT OF VERSES PUT TOGETHER FROM HERE AND THERE AND SAY IT IS GODS WORD.    

WE CAN USE VERSES FROM HERE AND THERE TO BACK UP DOCTRINE FOUND IN THE WORD, BUT YOU ARE MAKING UP A DOCTRINE, THAT IS WHY YOU CAN NOT FIND IT AS A DOCTRINE.

  JUST LIKE OSAS.  LOTS OF GODS TRUTH,  BUT NOT TAUGHT AS A DOCTRINE IN THE WORD, HENCE ALL THE IFS.  AND DEBATE. AND ALL THE ERRORS THAT FOLLOW

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, The Light said:

That was you, not Babel that didn't let the word speak for itself. If you would have just read the word you would have seen it was speaking about the false prophets of Israel.

WHO do you think are the false prophets of Israel???  Those who claim to be of Christ yet spread false teaching.  

EZEKIEL speaks to a "fly away to save your soul"  

Pre trib rap "you are saved and going to fly away"

[DeighAnn]

53 minutes ago, The Light said:

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So as you SHOULD BE ABLE to see, the tribulation is over BEFORE Christ returns.

How is it that you cannot see that the tribulation and the wrath of God are two separate events?

Will discuss in another place

Edited July 31, 2020 by DeighAnn
Not place to discuss

[Marathoner]

On 7/29/2020 at 10:48 PM, DeighAnn said:

You do realize that both Noah and Lot WERE KEPT FROM THE DESTRUCTION THAT CAME UPON THE WORLD don't you?  You do realize they STAYED on the earth, in their flesh bodies, and God watched over them while HIS WRATH was poured out upon everyone else, right?   

Well said sister. I isolated what you wrote above because this strikes at the root of those confusing and contradictory rapture doctrines. At one point in the past I accepted the pre-tribulation rapture scheme in ignorance; the Lord convicted me of this error by revealing His prayer as recorded in John 17. The scales were removed from my eyes but this was by no means the end of revelations according to His word. The following is not an exhaustive reference but there are many examples in God's word which testify of the truth, @DeighAnn.

• Noah and Lot as you point out;
• Goshen spared from the plagues which befell Egypt (Exodus 8 and 9);
• David and his men in the wilderness (1 Samuel 23);
• David when he fled from Absalom (2 Samuel 15); 
• Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the furnace (Daniel 3). This heralds prophecy in the Revelation of Jesus Christ concerning the worship of the Beast and his image;
• Daniel in the lions' den (Daniel 6);
• Christ Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4, Luke 4, Mark 1);
• The woman in the wilderness (Revelation 12).

We should not forget how we were spared from the wrath to come. While the testimony of one is not identical to another the truth remains: by the washing of His blood and the sealing of God's Spirit, we are joined (grafted) to those who went before us. The Lord never intended to take us out of this world --- He intends to spare us from it!   
 

[The Light]

47 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

WHO do you think are the false prophets of Israel???  Those who claim to be of Christ yet spread false teaching.  

EZEKIEL speaks to a "fly away to save your soul"  

Pre trib rap "you are saved and going to fly away"

Great. Now context.

Eze 13

¹⁸ And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

¹⁹ And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

²⁰ Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

[Retrobyter]

On 7/23/2020 at 1:50 PM, SONshine said:

Here’s my little contribution:

In chapters two and three of Revelation, it is written that there are only 2 end-time churches in which Christ finds no fault.  They have one thing in common, and that is that they both know who the people are "who say they are Jews but do lie".  The other 5 churches don’t know this, apparently.  Why?  ....because they hadn’t been taught by those that should’ve been teaching them the true Word of God, their pastors!  Instead, they are being taught “traditions of men” and false doctrines and, in the end, they will find themselves being deceived.

Shabbat shalom, SONshine.

Oops. The problem you are showing here is that these are NOT "2 end-time churches," UNLESS you're admitting that the "end times" began in the first Century A.D!

These seven churches - the seven congregations - were located in Asia Minor during John's lifetime. He was writing Yeshua`s words DIRECTED TO THEM (or actually to their "messengers," their pastors)!

You're introducing some false conclusions based upon faulty premises.

[Retrobyter]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Ok, I'm going to lay it out verse by verse so you can clearly see exactly what you need to know about the rapture. Here, now, you should be able to see exactly when the rapture happens, as that is what you require to believe the Word.

Matt 24

⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Now do you know, verse by verse, when He is coming?

First off, I never said Gentile only rapture. However, according to the Word, a lot of Israel will be blind until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in

 

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Let me ask you again. We are told to watch and be ready. What are we supposed to be watching for?

Shabbat shalom, "The Light"

What we are supposed to be watching for is the COMING OF THE SON OF MAN! That does NOT mean "rapture!"

Also, when taking the Olivet Discourse into account, one should be VERY careful about what is being disclosed by our Master! That means to take things in light of their context; that means to check the Greek (since that's all the ancient texts we have of His words as spoken, now)! What occurred just before this passage you quoted?

Matthew 24:32-41 (KJV)

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree;
When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the coming of the Son of man) is near, even at the doors. 

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 

37 But as the days of Noe (Greek: Nooe pronounced "no'-eh") were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Now, I know there's been a LOT of teaching about the Greek word "paralambanoo" (because the words in verses 40 and 41 is "paralambanetai") and how it differs from the Greek word "airoo" (because the word in verse 39 is "eeren"). But, the theme of this section is "to be ready!" The ones who did NOT board the ark were the ones who were NOT ready and suffered God's judgment.

Likewise, since we read, ...

Revelation 6:12-17 (KJV)

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. (same signs as in Matthew 24:29-31) 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

... it's those who are TAKEN who will suffer the wrath of God and of the Lamb because they were NOT READY! The rest are left in the Land!

The word "paralambanoo" means ...

3880 paralambanoo (par-al-am-ban'-o). From para and lambanoo; to receive near, i.e. Associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn -- receive, take (unto, with).

It was used in a couple of other places in a NEGATIVE fashion:

Matthew 4:8-11 (KJV)

8 Again, the devil taketh (Greek: paralambanei = "he-takes") him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him,

"All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." 

10 Then saith Jesus unto him,

"Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve!"

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

and

Matthew 27:27-31 (KJV)

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took (Greek: paralabootes = "having-taken-with-them") Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. 28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. 29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying,

"Hail, King of the Jews!"

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. 31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

So, it is NOT always a good thing to "be taken along side!"

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, SONshine said:

In ch. 2 and 3 of Revelation, John addresses The Seven Churches.  Keep in mind, this is prophecy.  Jesus Christ has something to say to all of the churches of TODAY.  

[4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Jesus Christ has something to say to all the churches of TODAY.  Did we not just read in verse three of Rev. 1 that this is prophecy?  Yes we did!  Go read it again.  Again, John will be taken to the future when he writes, and the churches will be present and accounted for at the time he was taken to.

They will be described by that which they teach and only two of them will be found to be in good standing.

Also, "7" in biblical  numerics denotes spiritual completeness, meaning ALL of today's churches are being addressed.  The point here is that your church is identified in chapters two and three of this book of Revelation.

Shalom @Retrobyter

Shabbat shalom, SONshine.

It always fascinates me when someone will quote a Scripture verse and then IMMEDIATELY forget what it said!

I'm copying what you wrote and putting emphasis (capital letters) on the part you forgot.

[4] John TO THE SEVEN CHURCHES WHICH ARE IN ASIA: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

That "Asia" is "Asia Minor," which today is known as the country of Turkey! All seven of the churches - the congregations - are found there! Some of those towns are still there!

It's WRONG to "apply some meaning" to them other than what God's Word gives us! That's as much "adding to the words of the prophecy of this book" as is actually writing additional phrases and verses!

[Retrobyter]

6 minutes ago, SONshine said:

... Just need to ask you plainly, @Retrobyter ...

Do you understand that these are the seven types of churches that Jesus is calling your attention to that exist in the latter days? 

Shalom, brother.

Shabbat shalom, SONshine.

No, that's not what the Scriptures say! You're READING INTO (definition of "eisegesis") the Scriptures what's NOT THERE!