Let's Discuss Scientific Objections to Evolution

[Guest theElect777]

51 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

Debunking Evolution

Scientific evidence against evolution - the clash between theory and reality

The top problems with evolution explained using scientific evidence against evolution. In the creation evolution controversy, it is clear not only that the theory of evolution is wrong, the theory of evolution is false, but that the theory of evolution is a lie.

The strongest scientific evidence against evolution:

"Evolution" mixes two things together, one real, one imaginary. Variation (microevolution) is the real part. The types of bird beaks, the colors of moths, leg sizes, etc. are variation. Each type and length of beak a finch can have is already in the gene pool and adaptive mechanisms of finches. Creationists have always agreed that there is variation within species. What evolutionists do not want you to know is that there are strict limits to variation that are never crossed, something every breeder of animals or plants is aware of. Whenever variation is pushed to extremes by selective breeding (to get the most milk from cows, sugar from beets, bristles on fruit flies, or any other characteristic), the line becomes sterile and dies out. And as one characteristic increases, others diminish. But evolutionists want you to believe that changes continue, merging gradually into new kinds of creatures. This is where the imaginary part of the theory of evolution comes in. It says that new information is added to the gene pool by mutation and natural selection to create frogs from fish, reptiles from frogs, and mammals from reptiles, to name a few.

Just to be clear, evolution theory puts no limit on what mutation/natural selection can invent, saying that everything in nature was invented by it - everything:

Sex, eye-hand coordination, balance, navigation systems, tongues, blood, antennae, waste removal systems, swallowing, joints, lubrication, pumps, valves, autofocus, image stabilization, sensors, camouflage, traps, ceramic teeth, light (bioluminescence), ears, tears, eyes, hands, fingernails, cartilage, bones, spinal columns, spinal cords, muscles, ligaments, tendons, livers, kidneys, thyroid glands, lungs, stomachs, vocal cords, saliva, skin, fat, lymph, body plans, growth from egg to adult, nurturing babies, aging, breathing, heartbeat, hair, hibernation, bee dancing, insect queens, spiderwebs, feathers, seashells, scales, fins, tails, legs, feet, claws, wings, beaver dams, termite mounds, bird nests, coloration, markings, decision making, speech center of the brain, visual center of the brain, hearing center of the brain, language comprehension center of the brain, sensory center of the brain, memory, creative center of the brain, object-naming center of the brain, emotional center of the brain, movement centers of the brain, center of the brain for smelling, immune systems, circulatory systems, digestive systems, endocrine systems, regulatory systems, genes, gene regulatory networks, proteins, ribosomes that assemble proteins, receptors for proteins on cells, apoptosis, hormones, neurotransmitters, circadian clocks, jet propulsion, etc. Everything in nature - according to evolution theory.

Full article + pictures here;

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

CHECK THIS OUT AS WELL.

Many scientists are with us
The only tactic left to evolutionists 
is to ridicule their critics as simpletons who don't understand how their pet 
theory really works.  Here is a link to a roster of 
hundreds of professionals whose advanced academic degrees certify that they thoroughly
understand evolution theory.  They also have the 
courage to defy the high priests of academia by voluntarily adding 
their names to a skeptics 
list against Darwinism.

LINK;

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Interesting Article.

[David1701]

14 hours ago, one.opinion said:

I should have been more clear earlier. There are YEC scientists that are candid enough to admit what I've stated. I don't mean it as an insult, it's what YEC scientists like Todd Wood and Kurt Wise have already said for themselves. I have heard Georgia Purdom of AiG state flatly that there is no amount of evidence that would cause her to change her mind about young earth creation.

I've seen a few DVDs by Georgia Purdom and she's excellent.  She goes through the evidence in her field and presents it very well.

There is no evidence for evolution, only secular interpretations of that evidence, brought about by a desire to keep God out of the picture and start with a paradigm of "materialism only".

Quote

You are picking and choosing your evidence. If there is anatomical and genetic similarity, then "It is due to a template design!" But if a bat wing and bird wing have substantially different anatomy for the same purpose, then "God doesn't have to use the same template!" So regardless of the evidence, it always points to young earth creation in your mind. That is fine if you hold that opinion. It would just be nice to admit that it is opinion and not judge others as heretics for having a different opinion.

You're just not getting it, are you?  As I've already said, the interpretations are always going to be based on presuppositions, as applied to the evidence. 

Secular evolutionists "see" a common ancestor, then convergent or divergent evolution, when they see similar or dissimilar structures, used for similar purposes.  Why?  Because they start with a presupposition of materialism and infer gradual evolution, from older creatures to newer ones.

Creationists "see" a common designer, using variations on a theme, for his designs for different creatures, with variation only within a created kind.  Why?  Because they believe what the Bible states.

You, and some other compromising Christians, have joined in with the secular side, trying to marry together materialistic evolution and God, in unholy matrimony.  It's an unequal yoke, which Bible believers and atheists both know to be untenable.

Quote

"Assuming the Consequent" would imply that there isn't evidence to support the assumption - which is absolutely not the case. Have you happened to familiarize yourself with the fossils that mainstream scientists accept for the development of the whale? It's a remarkable series of fossils that strongly support the hypothesis of a lineage of terrestrial mammals eventually developing into cetaceans.

<sigh>

It only "supports" the hypothesis (I'm glad that you're admitting that that's all it is), if you start with evolutionary assumptions; otherwise, the fossils are mainly evidence of extinction.

Quote

Are you certain this could only mean in the procreative sense? I think it is more likely that Adam was the first to receive the Imago Dei, which was passed on to humanity through him.

Where is your biblical evidence for this?

Quote

The evidence that God has left for us in the form of the fossil record supports common ancestry, not a single creation event 6000 years ago. If God did create Adam and Eve as the only two humans 6000 years ago, then the evidence in genetics and fossils sure would qualify as misleading.

The fossil evidence mostly supports a global flood (and its aftermath).

Quote

 

Good. I'm a Bible-believing Christian that supports creation.

Before you accuse me of intentionally missing your point, it might be something to consider that you are implying I am not a Bible-believing Christian. I'm certain God would not approve of that.

 

In the area that we are discussing (what the Bible teaches about creation and about humanity descending from Adam) you most certainly DO NOT believe the Bible.  If you believe other areas, and I'm not doubting that, then you are practising cognitive dissonance.

[JohnR7]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:15 AM, David1701 said:

We are humans.  Apes are not humans.  Humans have always been humans, it's how we were created, in the Garden of Eden.

"Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.” (Genesis 4:14) 

What does Cain mean that "anyone who finds me will kill me"?   The word "anyone" (kal) means "all".  The word for "Ground" here is "hā-’ă-ḏā-māh," (Adamah) . The word for Earth is "bā-’ā-reṣ,"  So Eden and the Earth are not the same. 

I did a study on all the remains I can find that goes back before Adam and Eve. It is interesting because they did not die from natural causes they were killed. Either their skull was smashed or there was a arrow head or spear head inside of them.   So Cains concern was very real and he needed God's protection outside of Eden to survive. 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

5 hours ago, David1701 said:

The fossil evidence mostly supports a global flood (and its aftermath).

You are talking about two different floods.  Noah's flood was an archetype of the flood that took place at the time of Pangea when the dinosaurs were destroyed. The Bible word is type or typo (Strongs 5179). Where we get typewriter from. 

5179 týpos (from 5180 /týptō, "strike repeatedly") – properly, a model forged by repetition; (figuratively) the correct paradigm, based on reliable precedent for others to then follow, (i.e. the right example, a proper pattern).

[In the papyri, 5179 (týpos) means "pattern" (P Ryl II. 75.8). 5179 (týpos) is also used of a judicial proceeding, "Let an inquiry be made into his means; only there is a principle according to which I have often judged" (MM, 645).]

[David1701]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

"Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.” (Genesis 4:14) 

What does Cain mean that "anyone who finds me will kill me"?   The word "anyone" (kal) means "all".  The word for "Ground" here is "hā-’ă-ḏā-māh," (Adamah) . The word for Earth is "bā-’ā-reṣ,"  So Eden and the Earth are not the same. 

I did a study on all the remains I can find that goes back before Adam and Eve. It is interesting because they did not die from natural causes they were killed. Either their skull was smashed or there was a arrow head or spear head inside of them.   So Cains concern was very real and he needed God's protection outside of Eden to survive. 

 

Cain and Abel were clearly not the only children that Adam and Eve had.

Eden was a small part of the Earth.

There were no human remains before Adam and Eve, because there were no humans before Adam and Eve.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

You are talking about two different floods.  Noah's flood was an archetype of the flood that took place at the time of Pangea when the dinosaurs were destroyed. The Bible word is type or typo (Strongs 5179). Where we get typewriter from. 

5179 týpos (from 5180 /týptō, "strike repeatedly") – properly, a model forged by repetition; (figuratively) the correct paradigm, based on reliable precedent for others to then follow, (i.e. the right example, a proper pattern).

[In the papyri, 5179 (týpos) means "pattern" (P Ryl II. 75.8). 5179 (týpos) is also used of a judicial proceeding, "Let an inquiry be made into his means; only there is a principle according to which I have often judged" (MM, 645).]

Nonsense: there has only ever been one global flood.

Edited August 17, 2020 by David1701

[JohnR7]

46 minutes ago, David1701 said:

There were no human remains before Adam and Eve, because there were no humans before Adam and Eve.

You do not know History & you do not know Science. I have studied both for over 50 years.  The more we know about Adam and Eve the better we understand the Bible. Along with God's plan and purpose for us and our life here on the Earth. Bishop Ussher's book is accurate and true. He simply says NOTHING about ANYTHING before Adam and Eve.  I am as much a YEC as anyone. I am also OEC. Because one talks about what happened before Adam and Eve and the other talks about what happened after Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."  Breath here is neshamah: breath. This one word tells us what was different about Adam and Eve. 

In Genesis 1:28 "28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.” 

We do not have a women in Genesis 1:28 we have a female. Most people do not know the difference between a female and a women. Also they are not put in the Garden of Eden they are given the WHOLE or ALL of the Earth. These are what we all hunter gathers. Adam and Eve in Eden are what we call food producers. When you can produce your own food you can feed a lot more people and the population will grow. 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Nonsense: there has only ever been one global flood.

I do not know how many global floods there were. Noah's flood was a local flood, not global. 

What Hebrew word are you translating: "Global"? Where do you see the word: "global" in your Bible?  

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Nonsense: there has only ever been one global flood.

 

Here is Scriptural proof that there were two great floods on this Earth. Lucifers flood I will head "L.F and Noahs flood N.F. If you do nothing at all but read these Scriptures your eyes will be opened!

Praise His name for ever more.

Lucifers flood . as 'L.F.'
Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.'

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).

N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

[Marathoner]

I'm in agreement with the points you raise here, @JohnR7. Genesis 2:7 describes how the Lord imbued us with spirit (breath), that which sets us apart in His creation as men and women. We're made in His image: body, soul, and spirit in unity. The Word made flesh was a man in accordance with the prophecy from the third chapter of Genesis regarding the seed of the woman.