Let's Discuss Scientific Objections to Evolution

[David1701]

12 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

You do not know History & you do not know Science. I have studied both for over 50 years. 

Arrogance is not a Christian trait...

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The more we know about Adam and Eve the better we understand the Bible. Along with God's plan and purpose for us and our life here on the Earth.

Adam was the first human; that's the first thing you need to know about mankind.  Without that knowledge, you don't even have the foundation to build on.

1 Cor. 15:45 (VW) And so it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a life-giving Spirit.

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Bishop Ussher's book is accurate and true. He simply says NOTHING about ANYTHING before Adam and Eve.

That's because there were no humans before Adam and Eve, so there was nothing to mention.

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I am as much a YEC as anyone. I am also OEC.

You are an apple; but you are also an orange! 

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Because one talks about what happened before Adam and Eve and the other talks about what happened after Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."  Breath here is neshamah: breath. This one word tells us what was different about Adam and Eve. 

Different from what?  If you say that something is different, you need to provide your reference point.

 

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In Genesis 1:28 "28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

We do not have a women in Genesis 1:28 we have a female. Most people do not know the difference between a female and a women. Also they are not put in the Garden of Eden they are given the WHOLE or ALL of the Earth. These are what we all hunter gathers. Adam and Eve in Eden are what we call food producers. When you can produce your own food you can feed a lot more people and the population will grow. 

What are you talking about?  It seems as though you have made up some science fiction, very loosely based on what the Bible says.

I know what hunter-gatherers and food producers are; but you are making unstated assumptions, in order to arrive at your "interpretation" of the text.

By the way, I studied secular biology at university, before I was saved, and I have a high I.Q..  I say this just so that you can put your intellectual arrogance into perspective.

[The Barbarian]

10 hours ago, theElect777 said:

Everything in nature - according to evolution theory.

That's a common superstition,but it's not true.  In fact, "evolution" in the general sense, merely means change.   "Evolution" in biology means "change in allele frequency in a population over time."

That's it.  Nothing about geology, physics, stars (although  astronomers use the term with a different definition for the changes stars go through over time) and so on.

Evolution, as scientifically defined, is observed constantly.    Common descent, which is a consequence of evolution, is generally accepted to a limited degree by most creationists, usually new species, genera, and families.    As knowledgeable YE creationists admit, the fossil record is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

But evolution isn't about everything.

 

[David1701]

18 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I do not know how many global floods there were. Noah's flood was a local flood, not global. 

What Hebrew word are you translating: "Global"? Where do you see the word: "global" in your Bible?  

It covered the whole earth.  Perhaps you don't understand what that means?

Gen. 6:13 (VW) And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them along with the earth.

Gen. 6:17 (VW) And behold I, even I, am bringing a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy from under the heavens all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Gen. 7:4 (VW) For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will obliterate from off the face of the earth all living substance that I have made.

Gen. 7:17-24 (VW)

17 And the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it was high above the earth.
18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased upon the earth, and the ark moved about upon the surface of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed with abundant force upon the earth, and all the high hills under the heavens were covered.
20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: flying creatures and animals and living things and every creeping thing that moves on the earth, and every man.
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.
23 So He obliterated all living substance which was on the face of the ground: both man and animal, creeping thing and flying creatures of the heavens. They were obliterated from off the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark were left alive.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth one hundred and fifty days.

It's hard to see how God could have made it any plainer.  The flood covered the whole earth, over the tops of the mountains, and killed every air breathing creature on the dry land.

Gen. 9:13-16 (VW)

13 I set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.
14 It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud;
15 and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look upon it to remember the perpetual covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Here is God's promise never again to bring a local flood ... umm, oops! 

[David1701]

18 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

Here is Scriptural proof that there were two great floods on this Earth. Lucifers flood I will head "L.F and Noahs flood N.F. If you do nothing at all but read these Scriptures your eyes will be opened!

Praise His name for ever more.

Lucifers flood . as 'L.F.'
Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.'

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).

N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

This is Gap Theory nonsense and I won't indulge it.

[David1701]

15 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

There is no evidence for that and the Bible does not say the flood of Noah was global.

 

 

See my post here.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/256031-lets-discuss-scientific-objections-to-evolution/?do=findComment&comment=3264022

 

[The Barbarian]

There is no evidence for that and the Bible does not say the flood of Noah was global.

Just now, David1701 said:

See my post here.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/256031-lets-discuss-scientific-objections-to-evolution/?do=findComment&comment=3264022

 

That doesn't say it was global, either.   Which makes sense; there's no sign of a global flood.

[The Barbarian]

12 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Pick one of these for us to discuss.

This is a trap, isn't it?    

[Guest theElect777]

56 minutes ago, David1701 said:

This is Gap Theory nonsense and I won't indulge it.

There's more Scriptural backing for the "Gap Theory of Lucifer's Flood" than there are for the Pre-Trib Rapture Theory.   In fact, the "Gap Theory" goes into great detail and it literally aligns with Genesis 1:2.   The Pre-Trib Rapture NEVER specifies at what point the Rapture itself takes place.   Preacher have manipulated that LIE for over 150+ years now!

[Guest theElect777]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

That's a common superstition,but it's not true.  In fact, "evolution" in the general sense, merely means change.   "Evolution" in biology means "change in allele frequency in a population over time."

That's it.  Nothing about geology, physics, stars (although  astronomers use the term with a different definition for the changes stars go through over time) and so on.

Evolution, as scientifically defined, is observed constantly.    Common descent, which is a consequence of evolution, is generally accepted to a limited degree by most creationists, usually new species, genera, and families.    As knowledgeable YE creationists admit, the fossil record is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

But evolution isn't about everything.

 

My emphasis and focus on the term "Nature" represented trees, plants, animals.   I had not considered anything else.  But thank you for pointing that out since I should have been more clearer.

Edited August 18, 2020 by theElect777

[one.opinion]

56 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

This is a trap, isn't it?    

 It's my usual response to a Gish gallop - particularly if it's copied and pasted.