Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

[JAG**]

7 minutes ago, Alive said:

This posts illustrates my point well---there are folks who sincerely believe that

God Himself has shown them the truth and yet they disagree with one another.

All sincere brothers and sisters can do their level best to offer up the reasons for

their respective views, based hopefully on scripture, and do so in love with indicting

a fellow brother on some charge.

This all makes it plain, that either only one is correct and has it right, or none are

correct and have it right.

This reality, ought to cause us all to walk through these corridors with a measure

of humility and uncertainty.

Long ago--the Lord told me flat out--during a time of division when it was quite

clear that there were brothers in error--in the midst of that storm He said to me

two things. "Beware of the root of bitterness and do not build a case against your

brethren"

That Rema word has served me well all these years. If you think about those

individual words of counsel, you may see how inextricably linked they are and

how it relates to the 'heart'.

`

Alive, that up there is packed with wisdom. Amen to all of  that. Much appreciated.

__________________

 

As an aside , , ,

Your phrase "Rema word" caught my eye.

I googled and found this:

"The first, logos, refers principally to the total inspired Word of God and to Jesus,

who is the living Word. The second Greek word translated “word” is rhema,

which refers to the spoken word. Rhema literally means an utterance

 (individually, collectively or specifically)."___Off the Web.

Did I get it right?

 

JAG

PS

With regard to "debating" Christian Eschatology, these  Bible verses are

worth posting again:

"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant

them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they

will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has

taken them captive to do his will."__2 Timothy 2:25-26

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater

love has no one than this: that he lay down his life for his friends.

You are my friends if you do what I command. ___The Lord Jesus John 15:12-14

"If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."___Galatians 5:15

"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."___Ephesians 4:32

"Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble."__1 Peter 3:8

"Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification."__Romans 14:19

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."___Romans 12:18

"Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble."__1 Peter 3:8

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels."__2 Timothy 2:23

"Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who
listen."__2 Timothy 2:14

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."__1 Corinthians 13:1

 

 

 

 

 

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, JAG** said:

"The first, logos, refers principally to the total inspired Word of God and to Jesus,

who is the living Word. The second Greek word translated “word” is rhema,

which refers to the spoken word. Rhema literally means an utterance

 (individually, collectively or specifically)."___Off the Web.

Did I get it right?

 

Yes--that is what I am referring to.

[JAG**]

3 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yes--that is what I am referring to.

Got it. Thanks 

____________

Please allow  me to give you, and the thread, one more "plug" for one

of my favorite books   :-)

From the back blurbs of Dr. Kenneth Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion:

"In this greatly expanded and wholly updated version of Dr. Gentry's classic
study of Postmillennialism, you will sense anew the powerful message of
Psalm 72 that Christ "shall have dominion from sea to sea" (Psa. 72:8).


You will learn that God's word promises that "the whole earth will be filled
with His glory" (Psa. 72:19) so that "all nations will call Him blessed"
(Psa. 72:17) BEFORE Christ returns.


Many evangelicals today are concerned about those being Left Behind on
this Late Great Planet Earth as it collapses into absolute chaos. But the
Postmillennialist optimistically believes that He Shall Have Dominion
through the (Holy) Spirit-blessed labor of His blood-bought Church
by its faithful obedience to the New Covenant.


In this book you will find the whole Biblical rationale for the Postmillennial
hope, from its incipient beginning in Genesis to its glorious conclusion in
Revelation.


Your faith will be re-invigorated as you begin to recognize that the gospel
is the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16) and that our Lord Jesus
really meant it when He commanded us to "go and make disciples of all
the nations" (Matthew 28:19)


From the back cover of:
He Shall Have Dominion
Third Edition Revised and Expanded.
by Dr. Kenneth Gentry
Paperback 620 pages
9 inches X 6 inches X 2 inches thick
Its very popular so its not cheap
$36.00 Free S/H

amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/Shall-Have-Do...s%2C154&sr=8-1

 

 

[abcdef]

32 minutes ago, JAG** said:

abcdef, thank you for your comments and for explaining -- much appreciated.

______

Based on your posts I think you might like the following:

 Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry's book titled

"Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating The Book Of Revelation"

Gentry presents a strong lengthy argument for dating the

book of Revelation as being written by John during the reign

of Nero Caesar   just a few years before  Jerusalem's destruction

at the hands of the Roman general Titus in A.D. 70.

________

 

Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating The Book Of Revelation

by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry 

408 pages'

6 x 9 x 1+ inches.

amazon has it

JAG

Jag,

It is not possible that the Revelation was given before the 70 AD destruction.

The reason is that the scroll could not be revealed before then.

Dan. 12:4-7, shows that the scroll/book is sealed until the time of the end.

Then it is asked when the end of these things is (v 6).

The angel says that it will be 3 1/2 times until the power of the Holy people is scattered, then all these things shall be finished. (The things in the last vision, not the entire book of Daniel).

The power of the holy people scattering was completed in 70 AD.

So in order for the scroll/book to be revealed, Jerusalem will fall (70 AD, 6th seal), and the complete scattering of Israel into the gentile nations will have been begun (7th seal). 

---------------------------

The opening of the 7th seal indicates that all the events required for the scroll/book to be opened have ALREADY occurred. That is, the events that depicted the 7 seals, are already past or the scroll/book could NOT be revealed.

What the scroll says is the story of the 2 witnesses (2W's). since it was revealed to John at the writing of the Revelation what the scroll said, the events that are required to take place so that the scroll could be revealed, would have already taken place, that is, the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem, shown as the 6th seal.

 

[JAG**]

Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

______________

Most all Christians know about the great Christian preacher and theologian Jonathan Edwards , ,  , 

In an effort to perhaps create some interest in   Postmillennialism and 

in Postmillennialism's interpretation of the Biblical end times passages,

I thought I would share the following with the thread , , , ,

I was reading in Keith A. Mathison's "Postmillennialism: An Eschatology

Of Hope", and I came across the following  interest-grabbing tid-bit.


______________

Start quote.

"Jonathan Edwards {1703 -1758}, quite possibly the greatest theologian

and Christian philosopher in American history, Jonathan Edwards set

forth his Postmillennial Eschatology most completely in A History Of The

Work Of Redemption. He shared the Puritan's faith in the advancement of

the gospel in history."

__________

Says Jonathan Edwards:

"The future promised advancement of the Kingdom of Christ is an event

unspeakably happy and glorious. The Scriptures speak of that time, as a time

wherein God and His Son Jesus Christ will be most eminently glorified on

Earth."__-Jonathan Edwards.

Sentiments such as this have earned Jonathan Edwards the title of "the father

of American Postmillennialism."

End quote.

___________________________________

Source:

Postmillennialism: An Eschatology Of Hope

by Keith A. Mathison

page 45

[JAG**]

42 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Jag,

It is not possible that the Revelation was given before the 70 AD destruction.

 

 

abcdef, Gentry would strongly disagree with you  on that.

You disagree with him

He disagrees with you.

THAT , , , IS , , , Christian Eschatology , , , 21st Century ie disagreement.

___________

I would chat with you on this subject but its not my area of

interest and not my area of immediate knowledge and so I

would have to stop and start researching it and I simply don't

have the motivation to do that. Nonetheless your views are

most welcome and thank you for sharing them.

_______

 

Miscellaneous Thought For Today

JAG Writes:

"It is almost impossible to dislodge someone from the Premillennial belief.
You  MUST be willing to do a private study. Do that and your life will
change amazingly. How so? Because what you believe about the future
of Christendom has a HUGE influence on what you DO in the present
and upon your attitude regarding the future success of Christendom's
Great Commission.  We are going to "win the world" for our King
the Lord Jesus. Nothing can stop that. HE EARNED IT.. On the Cross.
He SHALL have it. , , , , HE SHALL HAVE DOMINION."___JAG

"the whole earth will be filled with His glory" Psalm 72:19
"all nations will call Him blessed" Psalm 72:17
"he shall have dominion from sea to sea" Psalm 72:8
 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[abcdef]

21 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

______________

Most all Christians know about the great Christian preacher and theologian Jonathan Edwards , ,  , 

In an effort to perhaps create some interest in   Postmillennialism and 

in Postmillennialism's interpretation of the Biblical end times passages,

I thought I would share the following with the thread , , , ,

I was reading in Keith A. Mathison's "Postmillennialism: An Eschatology

Of Hope", and I came across the following  interest-grabbing tid-bit.


______________

Start quote.

"Jonathan Edwards {1703 -1758}, quite possibly the greatest theologian

and Christian philosopher in American history, Jonathan Edwards set

forth his Postmillennial Eschatology most completely in A History Of The

Work Of Redemption. He shared the Puritan's faith in the advancement of

the gospel in history."

__________

Says Jonathan Edwards:

"The future promised advancement of the Kingdom of Christ is an event

unspeakably happy and glorious. The Scriptures speak of that time, as a time

wherein God and His Son Jesus Christ will be most eminently glorified on

Earth."__-Jonathan Edwards.

Sentiments such as this have earned Jonathan Edwards the title of "the father

of American Postmillennialism."

End quote.

___________________________________

Source:

Postmillennialism: An Eschatology Of Hope

by Keith A. Mathison

page 45

Maybe, is it possible, that after 1900 years of the kingdom/millennium, that we are presently, just before the second resurrection and the fire from heaven? Rev 20.

Jerusalem is surrounded right now by Magog.

-------------

If the mill period is as you say, the church/kingdom on earth, and the requirements that not every single person on planet earth becomes a member of the church/kingdom, 

couldn't that time be now?

-------------

Just to say, one fatal flaw of preterism is that the second coming for salvation Heb 9:28, has not happened yet. 

It did not happen at the 70 AD destruction or since, it is still to come.

----------

Both preterism and pre-trib have the same flaw, they have nothing between 70 AD and the present time.

The prophecies of this period are there, but they are misplaced in the time lines or ignored by both, the gap theory, there is no gap in the prophecies.

------------ 

[abcdef]

3 minutes ago, JAG** said:

abcdef, Gentry would strongly disagree with you  on that.

___________

I would chat with you on this subject but its not my area of

interest and not my area of immediate knowledge and so I

would have to stop and start researching it and I simply don't

have the motivation to do that. Nonetheless your views are

most welcome and thank you for sharing them.

_______

 

Miscellaneous Thought For Today

JAG Writes:

"It is almost impossible to dislodge someone from the Premillennial belief.
You  MUST be willing to do a private study. Do that and your life will
change amazingly. How so? Because what you believe about the future
of Christendom has a HUGE influence on what you DO in the present
and upon your attitude regarding the future success of Christendom's
Great Commission.  We are going to "win the world" for our King
the Lord Jesus. Nothing can stop that. HE EARNED IT.. On the Cross.
He SHALL have it. , , , , HE SHALL HAVE DOMINION."___JAG

"the whole earth will be filled with His glory" Psalm 72:19
"all nations will call Him blessed" Psalm 72:17
"he shall have dominion from sea to sea" Psalm 72:8
 

 

 

 

Jag,

I am not pre-mill or pre-trib.

I'm not asking for other peoples opinion, I'm asking for your well thought out opinion, apart from the thoughts of others.

Just look at the scriptures themselves and come to your own conclusions.

You say, "this person disagrees with you", hey, everybody disagrees!

Do you automatically believe everything the books say? Without really thinking things through? Answering the tough questions?

------------------------

 

[JAG**]

1 minute ago, abcdef said:

Jag,

I am not pre-mill or pre-trib.

I'm not asking for other peoples opinion, I'm asking for your well thought out opinion, apart from the thoughts of others.

Just look at the scriptures themselves and come to your own conclusions.

You say, "this person disagrees with you", hey, everybody disagrees!

Do you automatically believe everything the books say? Without really thinking things through? Answering the tough questions?

------------------------

 

This particular thread is titled:

Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

I would chat with you on your subject but its not my area of

interest and not my area of immediate knowledge and so I

would have to stop and start researching it and I simply don't

have the motivation to do that. Nonetheless your views are

most welcome and thank you for sharing them.

________

 

This thread is NOT on the subjects you wish to discuss.

You can start a thread on your subjects of interest and

I think you would do well with such a thread.

 

Best

JAG

 

 

 

[JAG**]

To the thread.

Anticipated objection to the proposition title of this thread.

"JAG you say there  is  no Bible-Verse argument for a future antichrist,

well JAG neither is there a Bible-Verse argument for the Trinity or for

Christians worshiping on Sunday." 

JAG Replies:

My view is that is incorrect.
The New Testament writers originated the concept
of the Trinity. We have clear Bible verses in support.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Spirit."
~ Father
~ Son
~ Holy Spirit

2 Corinthians 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit
be with you all."
~ The Lord Jesus Christ
~ God
~ The Holy Spirit

_____________


Moreover, the way the Bible is written demands that we
read it Trinitarian.

Some examples:
* Jesus said "I and my Father are one."

* John writes in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the
Word . . .and the Word was God"

* The Lord Jesus forgave sins. Nobody but God
can forgive sins.

__________

Its not possible to read through the New Testament's
Bible verses and escape the clear affirmations that:
~ The Father
~ The Son
~ The Holy Spirit , , ,
, , are all Three God.
They all Three function as
God --- all Three do what ONLY
God could do

There are many many other clear BIBLE-VERSE examples
in the New Testament that demand a Trinitarian reading
of the New Testament.

_______________

Continued  , , , 

Anticipated objection to the proposition title of this thread.

"JAG you say there  is  no Bible-Verse argument for a future antichrist,

well JAG neither is there a Bible-Verse argument for the Trinity or for

worshiping on Sunday." 

Regarding the worship on Sunday anticipated objection:

The Sunday issue is not a creedal concern of Christendom.

That means there is not a single Bible verse that says that
God cares which day is chosen for Christians to gather for
church services.

It was the people in the Christian Church that selected Sunday as
the day of worship and not God. There is no Bible verse that

says God selected  Sunday as the day of worship for Christians.

There is no Bible verse that says God cares which day is
selected.

"On the first day of every week, each one of you should set
aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving
it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be
made.__1 Corinthians 16:2

The people in the Christian Church selected Sunday probably
because of 1 Corinthians 16:2. But this verse does NOT say
that Sunday MUST be the day that is selected for worship.

So? So the anticipated objection   about Sunday is a non-issue.


JAG

PS

My view is that it is incorrect to hold that Christendom holds any major

doctrines to be true, that does NOT have clear Bible-Verse support.

That strikes me as being totally unthinkable. 

 

``