Is the church the "new Jerusalem"?

[Sister]

19 hours ago, Uriah said:

Sorry for barging in. This almost seems like a needless discussion. Are we to think that Jesus will be married to a "city". Buildings and structures? NOOOOOOO!

WE are His bride.

Rev. 19:8- And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev. 7:9- After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

WE WILL LIVE --IN--THE CITY!!!    What is so difficult about this? Failure to use a bit of reading comprehension? Hard to believe. Will a city wear robes? 

Hello Uriah

I know it's so easy to get mad at someone when they mention something contrary to what we've been taught, but it's not so cut and dry as most would like to believe.  I think this is only a needless discussion if nothing good comes out of it, or if bitterness springs up.  However, if I am proven to be wrong, it will only reinforce your beliefs and make it stronger right? 

 

The New Jerusalem is mentioned in Rev 21.  This is the city prepared 'as a bride' adorned for her husband coming down from heaven - AFTER the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.

This is the FINALE.  The finish.  There is no death existing in this city.

What you quoted in Rev 19:8 was at the Coming - the start of the millennial period.  There is still death existing during this period, not with the resurrected saints however, but in the City that reigns over where the flesh also will dwell.

Does the Lamb have one bride or two brides?  because there are two resurrections.

Does God really have a wife up there in heaven?  No, but he calls his City his wife, his Woman, New Jerusalem, or Holy Jerusalem.  He also calls her Zion.  God calls HIS CITY our MOTHER.  All the righteousness comes out of her, and the laws.  That city is tutoring us teaching us how to be holy.

What I just explained says that God is married to his City.  God is using a metaphor of a woman, his woman - to describe the relationship between him and his city.  His city will be perfect.  His city is the kingdom of God in heaven.  The kingdom of God goes through stages before it's finalised and perfected.  In the past the kingdom of God was defiled with Satan and his angels.  They are cast out but there's still a smell in there.  A reminder.  It is going to be made brand new, and when it comes down no trace of evil has ever entered or ever will again.

That City is prepared for us.  In the end it will take over the whole earth.  That is the final stage.

God has given Jesus his own kingdom to rule on the earth.  Jesus kingdom is an extension of the kingdom of God above, same laws, but that city he is given is his bride. The first lot of resurrected saints will enter into his city.  It's a union.   This is our inheritance to become citizens of this city.  This city will rule over the earth, and over the flesh.  So Jesus is coming for his bride, for his City - she is ready for the first lot to enter.

Jesus is doing the cleaning up down here.  His kingdom consists of the immortal and mortal.  The resurrected saints and those living in the flesh.  It's a mixed kingdom where those in the flesh still die, and the others cannot die again.  It has to go through this stage before the next stage comes.

What Jesus is doing for the next thousand years is getting the next lot of saints ready to inherit his kingdom.  When that 2nd resurrection comes, and evil is destroyed, all the saints together from the first and second resurrections will be presented to God all washed clean.  Their inheritance 'together' now is a new heaven and a new earth.  It represents all the righteousness of the saints, because the saints are now all wearing the righteousness of the city.  All is perfect.  Christ's job is done.  A big reunion.

I know we all like to think that we are bride, but the actual bride is higher than us.  We are governed by that city because it's the city who gives the laws.  We do not govern the laws, but the laws govern us.  That city for Christ to rule over is his reward, and with his reward are the saints given to reign with him.  They are wearing the righteousness of that city and are found faithful.  The city given to him comes with the saints to enter.  God has his woman, but Christ has his also.  All are metaphors. 

So two resurrections - one bride.  Not two brides.

The church is also made up of men.  The metaphor is not Christ marrying millions of women, and millions of men - because that's what the church is made up of.  No, It's one single bride.  A city filled and perfected.

So if God has a woman which is his city....then Christ's bride is his own __________?

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

Hello Uriah

I know it's so easy to get mad at someone when they mention something contrary to what we've been taught, but it's not so cut and dry as most would like to believe.  I think this is only a needless discussion if nothing good comes out of it, or if bitterness springs up.  However, if I am proven to be wrong, it will only reinforce your beliefs and make it stronger right? 

 

The New Jerusalem is mentioned in Rev 21.  This is the city prepared 'as a bride' adorned for her husband coming down from heaven - AFTER the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.

This is the FINALE.  The finish.  There is no death existing in this city.

What you quoted in Rev 19:8 was at the Coming - the start of the millennial period.  There is still death existing during this period, not with the resurrected saints however, but in the City that reigns over where the flesh also will dwell.

Does the Lamb have one bride or two brides?  because there are two resurrections.

Does God really have a wife up there in heaven?  No, but he calls his City his wife, his Woman, New Jerusalem, or Holy Jerusalem.  He also calls her Zion.  God calls HIS CITY our MOTHER.  All the righteousness comes out of her, and the laws.  That city is tutoring us teaching us how to be holy.

What I just explained says that God is married to his City.  God is using a metaphor of a woman, his woman - to describe the relationship between him and his city.  His city will be perfect.  His city is the kingdom of God in heaven.  The kingdom of God goes through stages before it's finalised and perfected.  In the past the kingdom of God was defiled with Satan and his angels.  They are cast out but there's still a smell in there.  A reminder.  It is going to be made brand new, and when it comes down no trace of evil has ever entered or ever will again.

That City is prepared for us.  In the end it will take over the whole earth.  That is the final stage.

God has given Jesus his own kingdom to rule on the earth.  Jesus kingdom is an extension of the kingdom of God above, same laws, but that city he is given is his bride. The first lot of resurrected saints will enter into his city.  It's a union.   This is our inheritance to become citizens of this city.  This city will rule over the earth, and over the flesh.  So Jesus is coming for his bride, for his City - she is ready for the first lot to enter.

Jesus is doing the cleaning up down here.  His kingdom consists of the immortal and mortal.  The resurrected saints and those living in the flesh.  It's a mixed kingdom where those in the flesh still die, and the others cannot die again.  It has to go through this stage before the next stage comes.

What Jesus is doing for the next thousand years is getting the next lot of saints ready to inherit his kingdom.  When that 2nd resurrection comes, and evil is destroyed, all the saints together from the first and second resurrections will be presented to God all washed clean.  Their inheritance 'together' now is a new heaven and a new earth.  It represents all the righteousness of the saints, because the saints are now all wearing the righteousness of the city.  All is perfect.  Christ's job is done.  A big reunion.

I know we all like to think that we are bride, but the actual bride is higher than us.  We are governed by that city because it's the city who gives the laws.  We do not govern the laws, but the laws govern us.  That city for Christ to rule over is his reward, and with his reward are the saints given to reign with him.  They are wearing the righteousness of that city and are found faithful.  The city given to him comes with the saints to enter.  God has his woman, but Christ has his also.  All are metaphors. 

So two resurrections - one bride.  Not two brides.

The church is also made up of men.  The metaphor is not Christ marrying millions of women, and millions of men - because that's what the church is made up of.  No, It's one single bride.  A city filled and perfected.

So if God has a woman which is his city....then Christ's bride is his own __________?

Hi Sister

Don't confuse my emphasizing certain points with being angry, I am not. I just don't see how, when Paul goes through of laying out comparisons between O.T. figures, people somehow don't get the symbolism and speak of a city (buildings and structures, as giving birth to us. I thing in this case that the NLT did a better job in gleaning the meaning. Gal 4:36- But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. 

[Sister]

Hi Uriah

Paul was using this allegory pertaining those wanting to be under the law;

 

Galatians 4:21   Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Galatians 4:22   For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Galatians 4:23   But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Galatians 4:24   Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Galatians 4:25   For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Galatians 4:26   But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Galatians 4:27   For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Galatians 4:28   Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Galatians 4:29   But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 4:30   Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Galatians 4:31   So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

Those desiring to be under the law will not be in the first resurrection.  Will not be heir with the son of the freewoman.  Cannot be in that same resurrection.  Sarah is the allegory of Jerusalem which is above - Jeru-salem, city of peace.  The kingdom of God. 

It's a spiritual building being built up with the righteousness Christ and the saints.  The city is prepared, but it's not finished yet, until those of bondwoman are given mercy to be taught and corrected.  They first must be ruled over by the right mother and will answer to her.  Jesus is put in charge of this kingdom on earth during the thousand years.  He will rule over them with his saints.  When that stage is finished, and they enter the the kingdom of God for an inheritance, the city will be fully furnished with righteousness.  It will look even more beautiful.  A spectacular event.  It will be a big union, like a marriage and the city will look like a bride.  Christ will present her fully clean and dressed in white.  Not only Israel but other gentiles who are converted during the 1000 years will enter also.  The city will be FULL of citizens, all washed clean because of the lamb.

If you don't like the KJV that's up to you, but I think it is worded beautifully and easy to understand.  If anything is wrong with what I said, it wouldn't be because the KJV is in error, but would solely lie upon my understanding. 

 

 

[Uriah]

19 hours ago, Sister said:

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Those desiring to be under the law will not be in the first resurrection.  Will not be heir with the son of the freewoman.  Cannot be in that same resurrection.  Sarah is the allegory of Jerusalem which is above - Jeru-salem, city of peace.  The kingdom of God. 

Right.

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It's a spiritual building being

I disagree. It is a physical city according to the descriptions in Revelation.

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 Jesus is put in charge of this kingdom on earth during the thousand years.  He will rule over them with his saints

This also is true.

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 When that stage is finished, and they enter the the kingdom of God for an inheritance, the city will be fully furnished with righteousness.

When that stage is finished? we need to wait a thousand years to "enter in"'?  Not.

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It will be a big union, like a marriage and the city will look like a bride.

Well the scripture calls it the MARRIAGE, I BELIEVE it.

 

19 hours ago, Sister said:

 

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If you don't like the KJV that's up to you, but I think it is worded beautifully and easy to understand.  If anything is wrong with what I said, it wouldn't be because the KJV is in error, but would solely lie upon my understanding. 

KJ Version, like the rest, is a-version. It has strengths and flaws like the rest.

 

 

[Sister]

39 minutes ago, Uriah said:

When that stage is finished? we need to wait a thousand years to "enter in"'?  Not.

When the 1000 yrs is over, and the 2nd resurrection takes place.  Then that stage of the kingdom is finished -with Christ and his saints ruling over those in the flesh on the earth.

Now both groups of the first and second resurrection enter the brand new city which comes down from heaven after the heaven and the earth is made new.  New Jerusalem.

Yes, I guess the saints of the first resurrection have to wait a thousand years till this last part comes - to see and be a part of the finale.  Note: they already received their 'change' at the Coming - the first resurrection, and have already 'inherited all things', but this final stage has not come yet until all is fulfilled in the earth.  We know even now that this part is coming, the last part of our inheritance.

 

[Uriah]

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

When the 1000 yrs is over, and the 2nd resurrection takes place.  Then that stage of the kingdom is finished -with Christ and his saints ruling over those in the flesh on the earth.

Now both groups of the first and second resurrection enter the brand new city which comes down from heaven after the heaven and the earth is made new.  New Jerusalem.

Yes, I guess the saints of the first resurrection have to wait a thousand years till this last part comes - to see and be a part of the finale.  Note: they already received their 'change' at the Coming - the first resurrection, and have already 'inherited all things', but this final stage has not come yet until all is fulfilled in the earth.  We know even now that this part is coming, the last part of our inheritance.

 

I disagree.

Matt 25:31- When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:  This is the second coming/rapture

Matt 25:32- And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats

Now in the previous verses in His parable He said...(v-21 &23) His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

There will be no 1000 yr waiting period.

[Sister]

14 hours ago, Uriah said:

I disagree.

Matt 25:31- When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:  This is the second coming/rapture

Matt 25:32- And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats

Now in the previous verses in His parable He said...(v-21 &23) His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

There will be no 1000 yr waiting period.

Uriah

Those scriptures you quoted does not discount what I am saying.  We know there will be a first resurrection at the Coming and the saints will receive their reward (their change).  They have entered the kingdom of God officially, and will never be moved, and will reap all the promises.  But there is a second resurrection coming after the thousand years. 

After the devil and his angels are thrown into the lake of fire, then comes the great white throne judgement, where all those who were not in the first resurrection will be judged 'according to the books'.  This judgement consists of the second death and the second resurrection. There are more goats and sheep to separate amongst all the dead.  Those written in the Lambs book of life will be spared.  The saints of the first resurrection are not in this judgement because they passed judgement.  I am sure you know this.

After this judgement, when all the devils children are thrown into the lake of fire and even death itself is thrown in there, God will create a new heaven and a new earth.  There will be no more sea, no more death, and no more flesh.  All standing are spirit now and will join with their brothers and sisters of the first resurrection who are already spirit.  

How can one enter this new heaven and new earth at the coming when it's not ready yet?

 Revelation 21:1   And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

  Revelation 21:2   And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

All has to happen in order.  The above scriptures is 'after' the great white throne judgement, not before.

 

 

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Uriah

Those scriptures you quoted does not discount what I am saying.  We know there will be a first resurrection at the Coming and the saints will receive their reward (their change).  They have entered the kingdom of God officially, and will never be moved, and will reap all the promises.  But there is a second resurrection coming after the thousand years. 

After the devil and his angels are thrown into the lake of fire, then comes the great white throne judgement, where all those who were not in the first resurrection will be judged 'according to the books'.  This judgement consists of the second death and the second resurrection. There are more goats and sheep to separate amongst all the dead.  Those written in the Lambs book of life will be spared.  The saints of the first resurrection are not in this judgement because they passed judgement.  I am sure you know this.

After this judgement, when all the devils children are thrown into the lake of fire and even death itself is thrown in there, God will create a new heaven and a new earth.  There will be no more sea, no more death, and no more flesh.  All standing are spirit now and will join with their brothers and sisters of the first resurrection who are already spirit.  

How can one enter this new heaven and new earth at the coming when it's not ready yet?

 Revelation 21:1   And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

  Revelation 21:2   And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

All has to happen in order.  The above scriptures is 'after' the great white throne judgement, not before.

 

 

Hi Sister

I understand your position more clearly now, thanks. There is something you should consider, however. Please take a look at Rev 20. Since there were no punctuations at all in the original text, I believe that there is a digression from v. 5 through v. 10. Therefore by adding parentheses around those verses you will more clearly how the new heavens and new Earth begin immediately after the second coming. Therefore that s when we will be told to "enter in"..New Jerusalem as it comes into view from earth. Right after a short time, from when we are caught up to be with the Lord.

In Rev 6 you can see the old heaven (sky) is being torn away while geologic changes are taking place-mountains and islands are displaced. 

[Leonardo Von]

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Is the church the "new Jerusalem"?

For sure. Note that it is described as the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9).