Do we go straight to heaven or hell/death or do we wait first for the resurrection and then the judgment and after that we go to our final destination?

[Ervin P]

In the story of Lazarus it seems that as soon as you die you go either to heaven or hell, but in other places for instance it seems as if we are first resurrected, then judged, then whatever comes next.

In Luke, the following seems as if soon as you die, you go to wherever your final destination is:

Luke 16:19:25

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in epurple and finelinen and fwho feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at hisgate gwas laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with hwhat fell from the rich man’stable. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by ithe angels jtoAbraham’s side.6 The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in kHades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes andlsaw Abraham far off and Lazarus jat his side. 24 And he calledout, m‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarusto dip the end of his finger in water and ncool my tongue, for oIam in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that pyou in your lifetime received your goodthings, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he iscomforted here, and you are in anguish.

 

And in the following in Acts it seems as if we safe all going to be judged at the same time:

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

How do you reconcile these two?

 

Thanks 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Ervin P
Hard to explain

[Adstar]

After reading the Book of Revelation it occured to me that Hell and the Eternal Lake of Fire are two different things..

(Revelation 20:12-15) "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. {13} And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

So i see Hell as a soul prison that will be cast into the eternal Lake of fire in the end..

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom @Ervin P

When we die, we go to Sheol.  This word is often translated as "grave" in English translations.

According to the Book of Enoch and 2 Esdras (which was part of the 1611 KJV and only removed as recently as the late 1800s) Sheol is separated into several sections.  However, to keep it simple for now, there are two principle sections - one side for the elect and one side for everyone else.

Sheol is what is reflected in the Messiah's story about Lazarus, who was on the "good side" (called "Abraham's Bosom") and the rich man was on the "bad side". 

As for Hell or the lake of fire, this has yet to be filled with Satan, his angels and all those destined to go there - post resurrection and post judgement day.

I hope that helps.

Love & Shalom

[johnthebaptist]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:28 PM, Ervin P said:

In the story of Lazarus it seems that as soon as you die you go either to heaven or hell, but in other places for instance it seems as if we are first resurrected, then judged, then whatever comes next.

In Luke, the following seems as if soon as you die, you go to wherever your final destination is:

Luke 16:19:25

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in epurple and finelinen and fwho feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at hisgate gwas laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with hwhat fell from the rich man’stable. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by ithe angels jtoAbraham’s side.6 The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in kHades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes andlsaw Abraham far off and Lazarus jat his side. 24 And he calledout, m‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarusto dip the end of his finger in water and ncool my tongue, for oIam in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that pyou in your lifetime received your goodthings, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he iscomforted here, and you are in anguish.

 

And in the following in Acts it seems as if we safe all going to be judged at the same time:

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

How do you reconcile these two?

 

Thanks 

 

I believe you will find the gate to heaven is always open to anyone who wants to walk in: 

This is the gate of the LORD;
the righteous shall enter through it. Psalm 118:20 RSV 

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:00 AM, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom @Ervin P

When we die, we go to Sheol.  This word is often translated as "grave" in English translations.

According to the Book of Enoch and 2 Esdras (which was part of the 1611 KJV and only removed as recently as the late 1800s) Sheol is separated into several sections.  However, to keep it simple for now, there are two principle sections - one side for the elect and one side for everyone else.

Sheol is what is reflected in the Messiah's story about Lazarus, who was on the "good side" (called "Abraham's Bosom") and the rich man was on the "bad side". 

As for Hell or the lake of fire, this has yet to be filled with Satan, his angels and all those destined to go there - post resurrection and post judgement day.

I hope that helps.

Love & Shalom

I agree I believe the bible teaches we go to Sheol which is separated between the righteous and wicked until the day of resurrection.    It is both a place of comfort for the righteous and place of torment for the wicked.  I agree the book of Enoch confirms the Messiah's teaching about Rich man and Lazarus story.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 1:58 PM, Ervin P said:

 

 

 

Hi Ervin,

The story in Luke is pre-cross and a pictorial presentation of what the place would be like after the judgment - suffering or not.

Now since Christ rose from the dead and took those Old testament believers with Him to the third heaven. We know from God`s word that they are in the General Assembly in the third heaven, angelic realm. Also there are those who have died in Christ. (Heb. 12: 22 - 24) 

God`s word tells us that they are `asleep,` (1 Thess. 4: 14) in a state of bliss.

Others are in the grave awaiting the great White Throne judgment. Some will go to the Lake of Fire, (symbolic of being alone and just your spirit, no body) & some will go on to the new earth, (as they didn`t know of Christ but lived rightly according to their God given conscience). Unborn children and those under the age of accountability will also go on to the new earth.

 

 

[DeighAnn]

Straight to paradise. As you will shortly notice, I am NOT one of those who believes "we hang out" in a grave while our flesh body decomposes and we sleep only to be resurrected years later.   Until someone can show me where all of these are incorrect, there I shall stay.

 
Psalm 16:5 The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.

Psalm 16:6 The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage.

Psalm 16:7 I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons.

Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Psalm 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
 

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Scripture for my beliefs besides the two above are (REMEMBER David in his sepulchre?  his flesh body is dead and buried but his spirit is ?) 

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.       7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, THAT WHICH THOU SOWEST IS NOT QUICKENED, EXCEPT IT DIE.

 
1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, THOU SOWEST NOT THE BODY THAT SHALL BE  but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain 
IN OTHER WORDS THERE ARE NEVER GOING TO BE ANY DEAD FLESH BODIES THAT COME BACK TO LIFE. 
        
WHAT GOES INTO THE GROUND STAYS IN THE GROUND UNTIL IT GOES BACK TO DUST.  

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and  another of birds.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (dead as in spiritually dead, and the spiritually dead dropping dead and being raised
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God  BRING WITH HIM. 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order Christ, the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (THOSE ALIVE AND REMAINING)

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

AND THE LAST WORDS SAID BY OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.


 

Luke 20:33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Philippians 2:7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Every knee, every tongue,  So everyone, good or bad or just lukewarm, THAT has a body now (TERRESTRIAL), gets a body at death (CELESTIAL) And every eye shall see Him.  

 

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ
This is a most interesting verse in the Greek  (I never heard it mentioned before)
Of us for the citizenship in {the}heavens exists, from whence also a Savior we are awaiting Lord Jesus Christ

4175 a form of government, citizenship 
So it more like
Our citizenship is in heaven from whence ALSO we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
 

Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

There are no scriptures that state when you die you go to heaven.   Jesus himself said no man has ascended into heaven except the Son whom came from heaven. 

[Jhn 3:13 ESV] 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

 The bible teaches that when a man dies he goes to Sheol which Jesus described in the story of Rich man and Lazarus. (Luke 16.)  Sheol well know in though out the bible as the place of the dead.   Even King David said that he would go down into Sheol when he dies.  Even Jesus went to Sheol when he died.

Yes there is a scripture in Ecclesiastes that says that the spirit returns to God when someone dies, but Man is living soul which was created when God breathed his spirit into man. 

[Gen 2:7 KJV] 7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (Spirit) of life; and man became a living soul.

So, yes the Spirit that gave us life returns to the Lord but the Soul of man (Which is who you are) does not.   This is why Jesus said, Fear God whom is able to destroy your Body and Soul in hell.  

[Mat 10:28 KJV] 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

If you do a little bit of research on Sheol, its located inside of the earth and is where departed souls go.  The book of Enoch speaks of this place and confirms what Jesus taught about Sheol.  It is as place with separation between the righteous dead and wicked dead.  This place where the righteous dead go is called Paradise/Abraham's Bosom.  The place where the wicked dead go is a place of torment and darkness know as Ghenna or Hell.  All souls go to Sheol until the day of resurrection and final judgement.  On the day of Judgement both your Body and Soul will be resurrected for the final judgment.

[Jhn 5:28-29 KJV] 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Enoch 22:  Enoch's Journey to Sheol

Internally it was deep, capacious, and very smooth; as smooth as if it had been rolled over: it was both deep and dark to behold.  Then Raphael, one of the holy angels who were with me, answered and said, These are the delightful places where the spirits, the souls of the dead, will be collected; for them were they formed; and here will be collected all the souls of the sons of men. 4. These places, in which they dwell, shall they occupy until the day of judgment, and until their appointed period. 5. Their appointed period will be long, even until the great judgment. And I saw the spirits of the sons of men who were dead; and their voices reached to heaven, while they were accusing. 6. Then I inquired of Raphael, an angel who was with me, and said, Whose spirit is that, the voice of which reaches to heaven, and accuses? 7. He answered, saying, This is the spirit of Abel, who was slain by Cain his brother; and who will accuse that brother, until his seed be destroyed from the face of the earth; 8. Until his seed perish from the seed of the human race. 9. At that time therefore I inquired respecting him, and respecting the general judgment, saying, Why is one separated from another? He answered, Three separations have been made between the spirits of the dead, and thus have the spirits of the righteous been separated. 10. Namely, by a chasm, by water, and by light above it. 11. And in the same way likewise are sinners separated when they die, and are buried in the earth; judgment not overtaking them in their lifetime.  12. Here their souls are separated. Moreover, abundant is their suffering until the time of the great judgment, the castigation, and the torment of those who eternally execrate, whose souls are punished and bound there for ever.  13. And thus has it been from the beginning of the world. Thus has there existed a separation between the souls of those who utter complaints, and of those who watch for their destruction, to slaughter them in the day of sinners.  14. A receptacle of this sort has been formed for the souls of unrighteous men, and of sinners; of those who have completed crime, and associated with the impious, whom they resemble. Their souls shall not be annihilated in the day of judgment, neither shall they arise from this place. Then I blessed God, 15. And said, Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of glory and of righteousness, who reigns over all for ever and for ever.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[missmuffet]

When a Christian dies their soul goes immediately to heaven. When an unbeliever dies their soul goes immediately to Hades. The body will later be resurrected. Unless the rapture of the Church comes first. Then a Christian is taken to heaven. 

[TheBlade]

For me there is a huge difference from when Christ walked this earth and after He died and rose. What you find with this question is.. well just who do you want to believe? No matter what I haha THINK I know I still go search and then all kind of different answers. Duh I can be wrong. So some  say you die and sleep and they back this up with scripture. I disagree with that. It is written "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.".

We also know Christ told the thief "And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Again so many things are talked about BEFORE Christ died. Paul didn't die and saw? See he in the flesh did not go up to heaven. Christ is the ONLY one!.

So for me paradise? hello will be heaven! haha. At some point I long to hear "you've not seen anything yet.. follow me".. Gold streets blah blah blah. I wont be here nor sleeping I will be with the lord as it is written... paradise.. or to some.. heaven for nothing in this world can compare.