What does the “Bible alone” mean?

[Deadworm]

(1) The church nowhere limits the biblical canon to precisely our 66 books prior to the Protestant Reformation.

(2) Jews do not seem to have closed the OT canon in the first century.  Thus, Jude can treat the Assumption of Moses and 1 Enoch as if they were Scripture and Paul can introduce his scriptural quotation of the Apocalypse of Elijah in 1 Cor. 2:9 with the phrase "It is written," which establishes it as Scripture in his mind.  Some try to claim that Paul's quotation derives from Isaiah, but no Isaiah text contains this quotation. Origen has a complete copy of this apocalypse and he identifies it as the source of his quotation.

(3) Greek-speaking Jews regard the Septuagint as Scripture, which contains the Apocrypha.  There is no evidence that the Council of Jamnia closed the OT canon in the 90s AD.

[Hobie_]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:51 AM, Willa said:

I believe that only the tradition given by the apostles themselves were reliable.  The Scriptures are full of warnings of false apostles and bad teachings coming into the church. So unless the teachings were from the Apostles or the testimony of their followers as to the authenticity of the Epistles, the oral traditions were unreliable if not false and dangerous.

traditions —(Jamison, Faucet & Brown) truths delivered and transmitted orally, or in writing (2Th 3:6; 1Co 11:2; Greek, “traditions”). The Greekverb from which the noun comes, is used by Paul in 1Co 11:23; 1Co 15:3. From the three passages in which “tradition” is used in a good sense, Rome has argued for her accumulation of uninspired traditions, virtually overriding God’s Word, while put forward as of co-ordinate authority with it. She forgets the ten passages (Mat 15:2, Mat 15:3, Mat 15:6; Mar 7:3, Mar 7:5, Mar 7:8, Mar 7:9, Mar 7:13; Gal 1:14; Col 2:8) stigmatizing man’s uninspired traditions. Not even the apostles’ sayings were all inspired (for example, Peter’s dissimulation, Gal 2:11-14), but only when they claimed to be so, as in their words afterwards embodied in their canonical writings. Oral inspiration was necessary in their case, until the canon of the written Word should be complete; they proved their possession of inspiration by miracles wrought in support of the new revelation, which revelation, moreover, accorded with the existing Old Testament revelation; an additional test needed besides miracles (compare Deu 13:1-6; Act 17:11). When the canon was complete, the infallibility of the living men was transferred to the written Word, now the sole unerring guide, interpreted by the Holy Spirit. Little else has come down to us by the most ancient and universal tradition save this, the all-sufficiency of Scripture for salvation. Therefore, by tradition, we are constrained to cast off all tradition not contained in, or not provable by, Scripture. The Fathers are valuable witnesses to historical facts, which give force to the intimations of Scripture: such as the Christian Lord’s day, the baptism of infants, and the genuineness of the canon of Scripture. Tradition (in the sense of human testimony) cannot establish a doctrine, but can authenticate a fact, such as the facts just mentioned. Inspired tradition, in Paul’s sense, is not a supplementary oral tradition completing our written Word, but it is identical with the written Word now complete; then the latter not being complete, the tradition was necessarily in part oral, in part written, and continued so until, the latter being complete before the death of St. John, the last apostle, the former was no longer needed. Scripture is, according to Paul, the complete and sufficient rule in all that appertains to making “the man of God perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2Ti 3:16, 2Ti 3:17). It is by leaving Paul’s God-inspired tradition for human traditions that Rome has become the forerunner and parent of the Antichrist. It is striking that, from this very chapter denouncing Antichrist, she should draw an argument for her “traditions” by which she fosters anti-Christianity. Because the apostles’ oral word was as trustworthy as their written word, it by no means follows that the oral word of those not apostles is as trustworthy as the written word of those who were apostles or inspired evangelists. No tradition of the apostles except their written word can be proved genuine on satisfactory evidence. We are no more bound to accept implicitly the Fathers’ interpretations of Scripture, because we accept the Scripture canon on their testimony, than we are bound to accept the Jews’ interpretation of the Old Testament, because we accept the Old Testament canon on their testimony.

 

And so if men claim a tradition was given by a apostle or 'church father', but it goes against scripture, which one would you follow..

[Willa]

6 hours ago, Hobie_ said:

And so if men claim a tradition was given by a apostle or 'church father', but it goes against scripture, which one would you follow..

Church fathers included all the disciples of the 12 Apostles.  Doctrine can only be based on the Apostles and Pauls words or the words in Scripture, which is the Apostles words written down.  All is inspired by the Holy Spirit or God Breathed.  There was no need to use any tradition once the New Testament was written.  Nothing can be added to Scripture.  I follow the Bible.  

[Hobie_]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

Church fathers included all the disciples of the 12 Apostles.  Doctrine can only be based on the Apostles and Pauls words or the words in Scripture, which is the Apostles words written down.  All is inspired by the Holy Spirit or God Breathed.  There was no need to use any tradition once the New Testament was written.  Nothing can be added to Scripture.  I follow the Bible.  

What day do you worship on, the one from tradition of men, or the one from Scripture written down in the Law with Gods own finger. This is at the core of this issue that people are blind to....

Edited March 25, 2022 by Hobie_

[Willa]

I am not Jewish and I walk in the Spirit.  

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

We have been over this time and time again with you.

Act 15:24  Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

Act 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

Act 15:29  that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

 

[Willa]

When I was first saved I placed myself under the law.  It was horrible bondage and by doing so I removed myself from God's grace.  It took` several years to shake myself free from that. It was like I was never saved.  It was not till I learned to walk in the Spirit that I was totally set free.    You may worship on whatever day you want and obey in whatever way you see fit.  Just don't impose these things on others.  Each of us answers to our own Master.

[Willa]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:16 AM, Deadworm said:

Origen has a complete copy of this apocalypse and he identifies it as the source of his quotation.

Origen was a heretic.  

[Deadworm]

Willa, I challenge you to back up  that charge with direct quotes from Origen.  You are simply slandering a great patristic theologian based solely on fundamentalist heresay.

But even if he were a heretic, that claim is irrelevant to his possession of a complete text of the Apocalypse of Elijah and his identification of Paul's quotation in 1 Cor. 2:9.No doctrinal dispute is at stake in the citation.

[Hobie_]

9 hours ago, Willa said:

I am not Jewish and I walk in the Spirit.  

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

We have been over this time and time again with you.

Act 15:24  Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

Act 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

Act 15:29  that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

 

Yet you are part of Gods creation, mankind, the Sabbath was made for you, and Christ the Creator confirms this. So its not just for those from the Hebrew race, but all mankind...