Tongues?

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Sorry but no. Yeshua says He will baptize with fire.

Matthew 13:8 says "Bear fruit in keeping with repentance." John then goes on to say that he baptised with water for repentance, but the one who is coming after Him (that is Jesus); will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. There are the two separate baptisms mentioned - the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism of fire.

 

As the distinction above relates OT law and NT rebirth... John did not baptize with the Holy Spirit! The baptism of The Holy Spirit did not occur till Pentecost ... 
God says one you say more... I'm sure if they were two to be understood God would have said so in the verse I quoted...

[Justin Adams]

12 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

As the distinction above relates OT law and NT rebirth... John did not baptize with the Holy Spirit! The baptism of The Holy Spirit did not occur till Pentecost ... 
God says one you say more... I'm sure if they were two to be understood God would have said so in the verse I quoted...

19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

Here we have John's baptism.

Then Jesus' baptism

And then the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Justin Adams

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

I see this supporting what I have said... there exist only one Baptism of The Holy Spirit and that being the day your belief caused one to cry out to Jesus to be saved...

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

I see this supporting what I have said... there exist only one Baptism of The Holy Spirit and that being the day your belief caused one to cry out to Jesus to be saved...

Which ever way you spin it. I said there are more than one baptism. I did not say there was more than one Spirit baptism, though obviously man's doctrines will conflate all this.

You chose to focus on the Spirit Baptism, I did not.

[enoob57]

15 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Which ever way you spin it. I said there are more than one baptism. I did not say there was more than one Spirit baptism, though obviously man's doctrines will conflate all this.

You chose to focus on the Spirit Baptism, I did not.

I have tendency to focus upon the eternal things as I train my heart to let go of that which passes away  The only true value system is that which The Lord is keeping with Him forever...

[Buddy D. Mouse]

 Heb 6:1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

https://www.blueletterbible.org/assets/images/copyChkboxOff.gif Heb 6:2

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment

 

The author of Hebrews begins this passage by saying he is going to "leave" the principles of the doctrine of Christ and go on to PERFECTION -obviously not THE PERFECT in the sense of that which will come when Tongues, Prophecy and Word of Knowledge CEASE. They have NOT ceased to this day. 

 

Greek TELEOS means complete, perfect or mature.

Even the most radical of cessationists are aware that Tongues goes on today in Assembly of God and Pentecostal churches - though they might claim that the Tongues are done falsely, faked, or whatever. Come on, man - Tongues go on today. That people may FAKE or COUNTERFEIT sometimes does not negate the fact that the GENUINE goes on, any more than counterfeit money negates the genuineness of real currency.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

 

perfection

g5047

τελειότητα τελειότηςteleiotēs

 

 

Everyone please send me all of your currency - it might be counterfeit.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Paul James said:

You never know...he might try pushing his Bible cover into Jesus' face at the judgment!

GUFFAW!!!!

 

 Heb 6:1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God

https://www.blueletterbible.org/assets/images/copyChkboxOff.gif Heb 6:2

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment

 

The author of Hebrews is talking about leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ and going on to a kind of PERFECTION - this is different from THE PERFECT which will denote the PASSING AWAY of TONGUES, PROPHECY AND WORD OF KNOWLEDGE.

That Teleios has not occurred yet, people. It was NOT the completion of the New Testament canon. Do you see how silly it would be that an ancient Christian is giving a message in Tongues at just the moment the last NT book is finished - he can't finish his message in Tongues because Tongues CEASE before he finishes.

Also, we need to realize how long it took for the completed NT to be RECOGNIZED as such - Revelation was not accepted in some areas for centuries past when it was written.

[Duck]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Which baptism is that?

 

Ok Laying on of hands then. My Bible has Ananias baptizes Paul as the heading in acts 9.

[Paul James]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

God has written it down and that is what objective means Paul as everyone can come to the same source and evaluate objectively from that one source... subjective is when you hear from and no one else can evaluate as it is of personal experience subjectively received... You seem to have this confused  

My quandary in this is- God has objectively written one source for all to come to~ then why would He subjectively speak personally to you what He has objectively given? God is concerned about having a foundation for which all people in all times can build off of and that is The Written Word of God...

You seem to be unable to properly frame what I write... the gifts of The Holy Spirit are in effect for today just not the sign gifts: The power Jesus did to verify Himself and His disciples is not seen today... how do I know this objectively from Scripture~ cause even Jesus' and His disciples enemies could not deny the miraculous events happening right before their eyes... we do not see this today or this discussion would not be! His enemies had to explain away the power seen as from the devil as today the miraculous sign gifts are just not there...

I hope we got the objective and subject understanding down now? One more time does God's Word say tongues will cease?
1 Cor 13:8
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV
You see objectively we can say that 'IS' what God 'IS' saying ... subjectively you may say something else but objectively you can not! The when they cease is really a moot point the objective fact is that they will cease... so the objective conclusion is God Who 'IS' eternal and we born of s/Spirit are thus eternal with God why should we make such a fuss over that which God 'IS' ceasing

Of course prophecies will fail and tongues will cease and knowledge will vanish away.  The Scripture is quite clear about that.  The timing of it is not included in the verse you quoted, therefore you have decided for yourself that it happened at the end of the Apostolic Age.   That is eisegesis.   The nine supernatural gifts of the Spirit are not "sign" gifts.  They are tools of the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ, to be used in local churches.   In fact, the Scripture does not label any of the gifts as "sign" gifts at all.   These are notions thought up by men to try and justify why the supernatural gifts don't occur in most of our churches in the way they occurred in the Book of Acts.