When is the rapture?

[Moby]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am assuming, since you are here on a public forum teaching others, that you KNOW the scriptures and do not have to see them over and over.

Do you really have to SEE it to know it is truth? 

1 Tes. 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The REAL way to distinguish a false teacher is to prove his teachings false by scripture rightly divided.  

Go ahead, try PROVING with scripture that God is not a trinity and see how far you get here. 

Also know that your quoting a verse from the KJV that is a very poor translation:

KJV ~ 2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Jesus warned us to not divide the scriptures:

John 10:35  If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

Here is a much better and correct translation of that 2 Timothy verse:

ASV ~ 2 Timothy 2:15  Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Moby said:

You seem to be very intrigued by the link on Rob's website about the trinity. Did you bother to study that link to see what scriptures Rob used there to prove his thesis?:

Acts 17:11  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.

The questions on the trinity were addressed in a church conference hundreds of years ago. The problem is, a lot of Christians today know nothing of church history, so false doctrines recirculate again and again. Then many Christians today skip over Acts 1 & 2 and so miss out on the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is sort of like driving a car with a V/8 engine, but only hitting on 4 cylinders. 

I wonder: are YOU "Rob?"

[Moby]

54 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The questions on the trinity were addressed in a church conference hundreds of years ago. The problem is, a lot of Christians today know nothing of church history, so false doctrines recirculate again and again. Then many Christians today skip over Acts 1 & 2 and so miss out on the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is sort of like driving a car with a V/8 engine, but only hitting on 4 cylinders. 

I wonder: are YOU "Rob?"

Yes I know that the majority of God's people "settled" on the theology of a trinity hundreds of years ago but then again Paul warned us that the perversion of the truth would start as soon as he departed from the churches he established:

Acts 20:27-30  For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.  (28)  Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.  (29)  I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;  (30)  and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

As per your question as to Rob and I let's just dwell on the prospects that when two brethren become totally one in Christ they speak as one:

1 Corinthians 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

[iamlamad]

21 minutes ago, Moby said:

Yes I know that the majority of God's people "settled" on the theology of a trinity hundreds of years ago but then again Paul warned us that the perversion of the truth would start as soon as he departed from the churches he established:

Acts 20:27-30  For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.  (28)  Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.  (29)  I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;  (30)  and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

As per your question as to Rob and I let's just dwell on the prospects that when two brethren become totally one in Christ they speak as one:

1 Corinthians 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Let's talk truth: the church is VERY divided today in doctrine, for several reasons. Perhaps pride is a big one. Another is that most of the church skipped over Acts 1 and 2. Another reason: most believers have not learned how to activate the Holy Spirit as their own personal teacher. He IS the teacher, the best there is, but the truth is, few believers ever hear His voice teaching them. 

Many believers today are so "body" conscious that they ignore their Spirit man inside - as Paul wrote, "the inward man." (My spirit man is the REAL ME.) Yet, when God talks to us, He talks to our Spirit man. People have to be spirit conscious to hear. 

In other words, the church will not become totally "one" in Christ - and speak the same thing, until we all have resurrection bodies and know then as we are now known.

It is very doubtful you and I will agree on much, until that day. You imagine a posttrib rapture; I know it will be pretrib. This is just one of many areas where we disagree. 

[Moby]

12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Let's talk truth: the church is VERY divided today in doctrine, for several reasons. Perhaps pride is a big one. Another is that most of the church skipped over Acts 1 and 2. Another reason: most believers have not learned how to activate the Holy Spirit as their own personal teacher. He IS the teacher, the best there is, but the truth is, few believers ever hear His voice teaching them. 

Many believers today are so "body" conscious that they ignore their Spirit man inside - as Paul wrote, "the inward man." (My spirit man is the REAL ME.) Yet, when God talks to us, He talks to our Spirit man. People have to be spirit conscious to hear. 

In other words, the church will not become totally "one" in Christ - and speak the same thing, until we all have resurrection bodies and know then as we are now known.

It is very doubtful you and I will agree on much, until that day. You imagine a posttrib rapture; I know it will be pretrib. This is just one of many areas where we disagree. 

Yes the church is very divided today because most men teaching at the pulpits were pumped out of the many apostate christian colleges that produce nothing but babes:

Hebrews 5:11-14  Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing.  (12)  For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.  (13)  For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.  (14)  But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

There is no "imagining" Jesus coming in the clouds to receive His elect after the tribulation when He clearly said that is when He is coming to take His body home:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Moby said:

Yes the church is very divided today because most men teaching at the pulpits were pumped out of the many apostate christian colleges that produce nothing but babes:

Hebrews 5:11-14  Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing.  (12)  For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.  (13)  For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.  (14)  But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

There is no "imagining" Jesus coming in the clouds to receive His elect after the tribulation when He clearly said that is when He is coming to take His body home:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

He will most certainly come as shown in Rev. 19, riding on a white horse to the battle of Armageddon - but at this coming, the church is coming WITH Him. 

However, 7 years + before this, He will come to the clouds FOR His church, JUST before the Day of the Lord starts: 6th seal.

Question: please explain to us how the church is going to get to heaven for the marriage and supper that will be taking place there, before Christ returns to earth to Armageddon?

[Moby]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

He will most certainly come as shown in Rev. 19, riding on a white horse to the battle of Armageddon - but at this coming, the church is coming WITH Him. 

However, 7 years + before this, He will come to the clouds FOR His church, JUST before the Day of the Lord starts: 6th seal.

Question: please explain to us how the church is going to get to heaven for the marriage and supper that will be taking place there, before Christ returns to earth to Armageddon?

Here is a simple timeline that clearly allows 320 days from the 7th trump till Jesus returns to the earth to set up His millennial kingdom::

    I<----------Tribulation---------->I<-------Great Tribulation------->I<----------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)--------------------->I

                                                    I<------------------------------------1335 days------------------------>I

    I<-----------1260 days--------->I<-----------1290 days----------->I<-----------45 days------------>I<------------320 days---------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4          midst           seals 5 & 6         7th seal         Trumps           7th trump         7 bowls           Jesus

with                 opened      Abomination       opened              marks          2-6 blown         resurrects        poured          returns

many                                 of Desolation                                  End of           during            & raptures       out while       to earth

starts                                       set up                                      7 years           1st~45            church in       church in       with army

Tribulation                                                                              1st Trump         days of         clouds with     heaven at     Rev ch19 

1st Seal                                                                                 starts year         wrath               Jesus            marriage             opened                                                                                    of wrath                                                           supper

                                                                                                                                                                

All the scriptures in this link clearly fit perfectly into that timeline:

 

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Moby

[Moby]

Skip this post as it was out of format

Edited September 16, 2020 by Moby

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Moby said:

Here is a simple timeline that clearly allows 320 days from the 7th trump till Jesus returns to the earth to set up His millennial kingdom::

    I<----------Tribulation---------->I<-------Great Tribulation------->I<----------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)--------------------->I

                                                    I<------------------------------------1335 days------------------------>I

    I<-----------1260 days--------->I<-----------1290 days----------->I<-----------45 days------------>I<------------320 days---------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4          midst           seals 5 & 6         7th seal         Trumps           7th trump         7 bowls           Jesus

with                 opened      Abomination       opened              marks          2-6 blown         resurrects        poured          returns

many                                 of Desolation                                  End of           during            & raptures       out while       to earth

starts                                       set up                                      7 years           1st~45            church in       church in       with army

Tribulation                                                                              1st Trump         days of         clouds with     heaven at     Rev ch19 

1st Seal                                                                                 starts year         wrath               Jesus            marriage             opened                                                                                    of wrath                                                           supper

                                                                                                                                                                

All the scriptures in this link clearly fit perfectly into that timeline:

 

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

All I have to read is your first sentence to know you are completely out of the ball park. First, you have pulled seals 2 - 4 out of their early history context. Perhaps you should study chapters 4 & 5. They show Jesus taking the book and opening the first seals the moment He ascended back into the throne room. 

Next, you seem not to understand that we are NOW still at the 5th seal  - martyrs of the church age. The 6th seal and start of the Day of the Lord is future, right after the pretrib rapture. Therefore, the first five seals are CHURCH AGE. Trying to put the seals into the final week is a big time error.

Next, how in the world do you get the abomination set up and it NOT divide the week into two halves as Daniel tells us it will. The week will END (the 7th vial) on the 1260th  day, not the 1290th. The 1290 shows an additional 30 days AFTER the week has closed. Did you not notice in Revelation that EVENTS happen after the 7th vial ends the week, and before Jesus returns in chapter 19?

Next, you show the 7th seal as the end of the week! Did you just overlook THE BOOK? Did you not understand that the book is MORE than the 7 seals? There are things written IN THE BOOK that cannot take place until all seven seals are opened first: THEN the book is opened. Without much doubt, the first then written inside the book is to give 7 trumpets to 7 angels. In other words, the trumpets (at a minimum - I suspect the entire 70th week) is written INSIDE the book. In other words, NO trumpet can sound until all seven seals are opened. Once a seal is opened, and that event takes place, that seal is never mentioned again. By the trumpets, the seals are forgotten. 

Next, the first 6 trumpets come in the FIRST HALF of the week. The 7th trumpet will sound to mark the exact midpoint of the week (among other things.) (God marked the 70th week with 7's)

I see one thing you have sort of right here: the days of "great tribulation" follow other tribulation. 

Ah! Another thing that looks good: you show the 1335 days starting at the midpoint. some work it backwards and start it in the first half of the week. 

My Axiom on Revelation: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology to fit - is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

Thanks for showing us this. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Moby said:

Here is a simple timeline that clearly allows 320 days from the 7th trump till Jesus returns to the earth to set up His millennial kingdom::

    I<-------------Tribulation---------->I<---------Great Tribulation--------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)---------------------------->I

                                                        I<------------------------------------1335 days---------------------------->I

    I<------------1260 days----------->I<-------------1290 days------------->I<-----------45 days------------>I<----------------320 days------------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4              midst              seals 5 & 6          7th seal           Trumps           7th trump              7 bowls                       Jesus

with                 opened         Abomination           opened               marks          2-6 blown         resurrects              poured                       returns

many                                    of Desolation                                       End of            during            & raptures             out while                     to earth

starts                                         set up                                            7 years           1st~45             church in              church in                    with army

Tribulation                                                                                     1st Trump         days of           clouds with            heaven at                  Rev ch19                

1st Seal                                                                                            starts              wrath                Jesus                   marriage

opened                                                                                             wrath                                                                      supper

 

All the scriptures in this link clearly fit perfectly into that timeline:

Please show us where you got the 45 days, and the 320 days.