7 year tribulation and year of wrath

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Just avoidance. Can't answer, build a scarecrow. I can tell from the repeated ducking you know it's a contradiction and it cannot be resolved in your mind except your dogma is shattered and your doctrine is in ruins.

So be it. 

The contradiction is only in your mind. It seems you often ignore TIME. 
At the time of the rapture, all saints are raptured, meaning, no saints left on earth. It is also written that wrath follows the rapture. It is just logic then that all those left behind will face God's wrath. Why do you work so hard to disagree with what is written? You KNOW there are saints on earth during the 70th week. Rev. 12 speaks of the remnant of those that love Jesus. Perhaps you should look up that word remnant in the dictionary. The Greek means the residue, or that which remains. 

God is just showing us again that the rapture took out the main load; so any who turn to God after the rapture are a remnant. 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

And how is it then when a seal is opened a condition occurs? The 1st seal is opened and a horse and rider go forth.

The 2nd seal is opened and a horse and rider go forth.

The 3rd seal is opened and a horse and rider go forth.

And so on.

That nixes the idea that all the seals must be broken before the book is opened. The book is clearly opened a seal at a time, a section at a time, a condition at a time.

 Nothing in the above connects the 7th seal with onset of trumpet sound. 

"And I saw..." is not equivalent to "Then after this..." You are assuming it is. 

John uses this language in Rev 7, "And after these things I saw" and, "After this I beheld,".

In Rev 8 John says "And I saw..." not, "And after this I saw..." Not a chronology from 8:1 to 8:2. It is a rewrite, an edit, an addition. The language doesn't exist therefore the concept does not exist.

One must then explain how it is that wrath is impending at the 6th seal, and in all reasonable thinking the day of wrath is upon the earth as seen by the words of the people of earth, "17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?", and wrath is also come at the 7th trumpet; " and thy wrath is come,".

So either wrath begins twice or the 6th seal and 7th trump occur in conjunction.

This idea of conjunction is the proper interpretation. This also fits well with wrath beginning at the 6th seal, then immediately after the vast multitude is seen in heaven, a multitude that is taken off the earth after the harbinger of the last trump, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, "

The only last trump associated with the end of the age, the coming of Jesus, and the gathering of the elect, is the 7th trump of Revelation.

So no, the trumps do not follow the 7th seal.

 

I think you haven't read the scriptures very closely there.  Let's look again: 

8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

² And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

As you have said, events happen when a seal is opened. We can guess that each seal allows some portion of the scroll to be unrolled and read. Nevertheless, the seals are to prevent the scroll itself from being opened to read what is inside UNTIL the proper time. The scroll itself cannot be opened and unrolled to reveal what is written inside UNTIL all the seals holding it closed are opened first.  (There is an example of a sealed document in Jer. 32)

So what "event" is written under the 7th seal? John wrote: I SAW seven angels get seven trumpets. 

For the previous seals, John wrote "I saw" or "I heard..."  or I looked." So the 7th seal is no different. An event is to happen and John is meant to see it: 7 angels receiving 7 trumpets.

6.  And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Of course they each have to have a trumpet before they can sound a trumpet. 

Therefore, I suspect that the first thing read when the scroll was opened was 7 angels receiving 7 trumpets, and then soon after, words of each trumpet sounding. 

I can't be dogmatic, but John did not write "I saw the book opened and I saw these words written..." or something like that. Nevertheless, with all the clues provided, it is sure that the book got opened after all the seals were opened.  

In Rev 8 John says "And I saw..." not, "And after this I saw..." Not a chronology from 8:1 to 8:2. It is a rewrite, an edit, an addition. The language doesn't exist therefore the concept does not exist.  

This is human reasoning gone wild. The Holy Spirit had God number the seals, trumpets and vials for chronology: so no one by human reasoning could rearrange to fit some theory. 

In case you missed it, verse 2 starts with "and" tying verse 2 to verse 1. 

Just so you know it can be done, I created a scroll, and cut the leading edge into 7 strips, each long enough to wrap around the scroll at least once. Then I put 7 seals on - one on each strip - so no strip could be unrolled until that seal was broken. As I was teaching this scripture, I demonstrated: I opened the first seal, and unrolled that strip as far as it would unroll: and I read "Seal # 1," and showed the congregation. Of course it could say anything. Only time will tell us what, if anything, was written on each seal. Since it was and is a real book, and probably in the form of a scroll, books have writing and or pictures. In this scroll I made, I could not unroll the scroll until I had first broken all 7 seals. Then the paper could be unrolled. 

So either wrath begins twice or the 6th seal and 7th trump occur in conjunction. Wrong.  You are not thinking in Greek. "Is come" comes from a Greek Aorist tense verb that shows NO TIMING at all. We have no such verbs in English. In Revelation, due to John's almost exclusive use of Aorist verbs, we find timing by the first mention of something. We can be sure, if the Day of His wrath has started, then God is angry - even if it is an Aorist verb.  When wrath is mentioned a second time, we can know that God is STILL angry. 

The only last trump associated with the end of the age, the coming of Jesus, and the gathering of the elect, is the 7th trump of Revelation.  This is myth. You are putting human reasoning above the written word. People who lack understanding have been trying since John wrote, to associate "the last trump" of Paul with the 7th trumpet in Revelation. All have failed for they are not the same. Paul's "last trump" will sound just before wrath, but the 7th trumpet sounds at the midpoint of the 70th week, so TIME proves this theory false.

Next, an ANGEL sounds the 7th trumpet and the trumpets are judgments. The Last trump is not a judgment. Without much doubt, it will be GOD sounding "the last trump. 

Finally, there is no gathering at the 7th trumpet. It is easy to read what happens: there is a closing: property is taken from one and given to another. It is a LEGAL transaction. If we step back to see the whole picture, Jesus does not take physical possession until chapter 19, after the week has ended.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with you.