A different perception - of the Beasts

[DeighAnn]

On 9/8/2020 at 6:38 PM, abcdef said:

Quote

Tribulation and Wrath are not the same thing. 

Tribulation happens as a result of wrath. So where there is wrath, there is tribulation.

Please do a thorough study on tribulation and wrath. 

 

Tribulation is the test.  Satan is the TEST.

Wrath is what happens if you fail.  So wrath on falls on them.

Reward is what happens when you pass.   So reward is for us.  

Always go back to the SIMPLE, straight path.  God makes is easy.  Man makes it complicated. 


If you get rid of all "pre trib" post, mid, pre wrath all the WORDS and just relax, and study (in which I know you are very well versed), let the story flow...  


A short story to get the simplicity across. 

Start with the mystery of iniquity doeth already work.  So, there are workings that have been going on since the Garden of Eden.  These are those workings we call "the synagogue of Satan".  (if you aren't in Christ, you are against Him, as not choosing is a choice, yes that is not totally correct and goes way deeper but not for now as many are finding their way or just love the world or whatever) 

Ask yourself what does Satan want?  To be God. To be worshipped as God.   He is going to get a chance to "sit" where God sits but just for a second.  BUT, in reality, it SERVES GODS PURPOSES.

God is offering ETERNAL better than we can imagine life.  I can't even put into words how crazy it is that this very fact is glossed over but whatever.  

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.  If we understand NOTHING else about that verse, it tells us we are all here on earth at the exact time God wants us to be,  for the exact reasons of God. 

 

There is to be a final battle ON EARTH, in the flesh.  

Just as the mystery of iniquity has been building up its armies, so has God in the body of Christ. 
(A major difference.  God's Gift is life vs Satan and the lake of fire).

So WHO is all this really about?  US.  Will we be vessels of honor or dishonor in His house.  

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 9:23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:24 Even US, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So God has given us all the information that will be on the coming test. 

He tells us that this information will fit you up with armor to pass the test with flying colors. 
This information will keep you from temptation/deception and you will receive the reward.
This information will keep you from failing thereby keeping you from wrath. 


So the battle grounds are being prepared.  God gives us TRUTH, all we need.


Satan is/has been (from heaven)  putting all his pieces in order on the battle field.  (Though NONE OF IT will ultimately be real, it sure is going to feel like it). 

So what is his plan of attack?  

1.  Corrupt the TRUTHs given us by God. 
Started way back when they went to work for the Levites so they could SCRIBE.  Why is that important?  That is where we find the TRUTH.  A word here, a word there.  That's all it takes. 

EXAMPLE    Highest Holy Day  -  PASSOVER  Pascha   
Kept death from us in Egypt.  CHRIST CONQUERS DEATH. 
BUT One time in all the Word of God Pascha/Passover is translated  to  "easter" and
NEXT thing you know PASSOVER has become about BUNNIES and pretty dresses and egg (think egg and sperm) hunts and  Oh, we should go to church that day.   It isn't a coincidence that there was a fertility goddess the pagans worshipped around that time.  REALLY there are no coincidences with GOD.  


2.  Make the "world" or "flesh life"  LOOK better than the Spiritual life.  DECEPTION

Anything and everything to make us NOT PUT GOD FIRST, ALWAYS.
Cars, planes trains automobiles.  Keeping up with the Joneses.  Soon,  Satan is going to make those dreams come true.  So enticing. And all you have to do is.....and all this will be yours.  MARKED

What does Satan know?  The easier we have it the less we look to God. The less we look to God the easier it is to deceive.   

3.  IDK right now, 

You've heard about the New world order/one world order.  Or the top percent that runs the worlds economy.  Or the illumanitti or however its spelled.  WE can see how the thinGs that are AN ABOMINATION to God are becoming the "accepted" way to view things, pushed so hard it makes you want to... ???,  anyway

Any guesstimate on how many mom and pop businesses have gone under JUST IN THE last couple months?  The BIG ONES, sailing through as they continue to "absorb" and get bigger.  Makes me think of the "Blob".   Remember how many banks there used to be?  Not long till "money" is all just "info" held by someone else. 

What ever happens,  at the time appointed by God,  there will on this planet be a "beast"/system of sorts that rises up.  There will be multiple "heads"/persons in charge in which ALL functions of the world happen.  They will have ABSORBED all individuality and will be in control.  And they will all be working together.  The Politics, the Money, the information we are given so the what we "know".  

Only thing missing is that one thing that keeps this world at war RELIGION.  But here steps up one to "bring it all together"  One in which "whatever" you need from religion  will be accommodated  

Something DEADLY is going to happen to SOME part of it that will SEEM to make it all fall apart.   
Now,  if that system is "ruling" the world,  then everything goes bad.  
Then it is fixed and the WHOLE WORLD WILL BE "INDEBTED" to its NEW saviour, the image set up.  

WE have just made it through the first 3 1/2 years.  

A war in heaven, Satans and his angels time on earth has come. 

Praise the LORD, right before he is kicked out, GOD WILL SEND HIS WITNESSES.

If you hadn't had your eyes opened and "seen" what was happening do it now.  This is the time the 144,000 eyes will have their eyes opened.   


When Satan arrives his "angels" will takeover as the "rulers" of the beast/system and Satan himself will take over as the RELIGIOUS LEADER.  


 THIS IS THE TEST FOR YOUR LIFE.  

For those of us who have on the gospel armor it is time to USE the wisdom and knowledge God has given us. 

We have been given the events that are to come.  Remain prepared.   No buying and selling coming.  (bartering works) 

But what some of the things we are told? 

Matthew 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Matthew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Matthew 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Matthew 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.


Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


The two witnesses killed, the party going on, and in the clouds, the armies of God come to DESTROY THE WICKED. And those who are alive and remain, those who have not taken the mark of the beast, those who have overcome, those who have endure, those who have STOOD, they ARE CHANGED and receive the reward while wrath falls upon those who failed.  


KINDA like that I think.  

[abcdef]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

Zechariah 14 is not about the destruction of Jerusalem, but about the destruction of those armies who come up against Jerusalem.

Zech 14:1, "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, ..." (70 AD)

V 2, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, ....", (Roman beast)

Acts 2:16-20, 70 AD day of the Lord against Jerusalem 70 AD.

Rev 6:17, sixth seal, 70 AD

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

To answer the basic fundamental conflict you are seeing - is that Jesus message to them in Judea when they see the AoD image in a holy place to flee right away.

Yes, Matt 24, 67 - 70 AD day of the Lord.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

The AoD setup on day 1185 of the seven years, still in the first half.

The AoD was set up just before the end of the first 3 1/2 times, that ended in 70 AD.

------

The 7 times are not 7 years.

The 7 times are the same time period as the Dan. 2 statue.

First 3 1/2 times, Babylon until 70 AD, Dan. 12:7, the people are scattered. By the forth beast of Dan. 7 and the iron nation beast of Dan 2.

Second 3 1/2 times, 70 AD until the people of Israel are reunited in restored to Israel Jerusalem.

Then the statue of Dan. 2 ends, when Jerusalem is restored to Israel.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

The Jews begin to flee into the mountains, as the two witnesses provide cover for their fleeing, until the two witnesses are killed on day 1250.     The time of protected fleeing over.

The Jews flee in the 70 AD time period.

The 2 witnesses are in Jerusalem now.

The 2 entities are separated by 1900 years.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

The Jews who don't flee right away will be stuck in Jerusalem for the remainder of the seven years.      Those are the ones in Zechariah 14 who will flee through the gap when the Mt. of Olives is split at the end of the 7 years the day that Jesus returns.

When it says that they are "not cut off" from the city, I believe it means that they are killed there. This is shown in the 7o AD destruction as those who are left behind.

There are 3 groups, those who flee, those who go into captivity, and those who are killed (left behind). 

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, douggg said:

Revelation 12:6 - the fleeing by the wise Jews, fleeing right away.

Revelation 12:17 - the remnant, them who didn't flee right away.

Rev 12:6, The good woman Israel flees the 70  AD destruction into the gentile nations for the second 3 1/2 times, 70 AD until 1967. At the end of the 3 1/2 times Israel is restored to Jerusalem, not fleeing again.

Rev 12:17, The gentile Christians who remained in the land of Israel after the Israelites left in 70 AD

==============================

The beast who destroyed Jerusalem in the 70 AD time period, is the same beast who deceives the kings of the east into attacking them at this present time, Rome.

Not the original Roman Empire sea beast, but the Vatican earth beast "image" of the Roman Empire.

 

 

[abcdef]

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

No its not, this is simple stuff made COMPLEX by humans who just throw out the facts the bible gives us, its 1 2 3/A B C type stuff.

Agree

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 7 Mountains are 7 Kings, the bible tells us that, so its 7 Kingdoms, Mountains are used throughout the bible to represent Kingdoms or POWERS. It says the 7 Headed Beast is 7 Mountains. 

It is an assumption to say that they are 7 different kingdoms.

They are all kings over one city/kingdom, Rome.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Beast Heads represents 7 Powers over Israel. 

Agree

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

THEY ARE........Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome

That is only six, who is the 7th?

 

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

.........2000 some odd year Church Age........Anti-Christ REVIVES the Beast, OR Satan master plan to subdue Israel/Jews.........That's all it is in reality.

Happening now.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

There was no Israel to subdue fir 2000 years so he tried to kill them via Hitler and other ways. Once Israel was Reborn in 1948, within 10 years Europe reunified. Its NO COINCIDENT. 

There certainly was the people of Israel who were persecuted by the iron Roman 4th beast of Dan. 7, for 2000 years.

You are only thinking of the land mass Israel.

There was an Israel in Egypt for 400 years and an Israel in captivity in Babylon.

There is an Israel that flees from Jerusalem, until the times of the gentiles is over.

All during the 1900 years that Israel was in the wilderness, they were still Israel, they were just not occupying the land mass and Jerusalem.

All that time Satan was trying to destroy the people of Israel.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 9:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

There is no city on 7 hills.

The woman is a city.

Who is the woman/city that rides the beast?

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Please do a thorough study on tribulation and wrath. 

 

Tribulation is the test.  Satan is the TEST.

Wrath is what happens if you fail.  So wrath on falls on them.

Reward is what happens when you pass.   So reward is for us.  

Always go back to the SIMPLE, straight path.  God makes is easy.  Man makes it complicated. 


If you get rid of all "pre trib" post, mid, pre wrath all the WORDS and just relax, and study (in which I know you are very well versed), let the story flow...  


A short story to get the simplicity across. 

Start with the mystery of iniquity doeth already work.  So, there are workings that have been going on since the Garden of Eden.  These are those workings we call "the synagogue of Satan".  (if you aren't in Christ, you are against Him, as not choosing is a choice, yes that is not totally correct and goes way deeper but not for now as many are finding their way or just love the world or whatever) 

Ask yourself what does Satan want?  To be God. To be worshipped as God.   He is going to get a chance to "sit" where God sits but just for a second.  BUT, in reality, it SERVES GODS PURPOSES.

God is offering ETERNAL better than we can imagine life.  I can't even put into words how crazy it is that this very fact is glossed over but whatever.  

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.  If we understand NOTHING else about that verse, it tells us we are all here on earth at the exact time God wants us to be,  for the exact reasons of God. 

 

There is to be a final battle ON EARTH, in the flesh.  

Just as the mystery of iniquity has been building up its armies, so has God in the body of Christ. 
(A major difference.  God's Gift is life vs Satan and the lake of fire).

So WHO is all this really about?  US.  Will we be vessels of honor or dishonor in His house.  

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 9:23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:24 Even US, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So God has given us all the information that will be on the coming test. 

He tells us that this information will fit you up with armor to pass the test with flying colors. 
This information will keep you from temptation/deception and you will receive the reward.
This information will keep you from failing thereby keeping you from wrath. 


So the battle grounds are being prepared.  God gives us TRUTH, all we need.


Satan is/has been (from heaven)  putting all his pieces in order on the battle field.  (Though NONE OF IT will ultimately be real, it sure is going to feel like it). 

So what is his plan of attack?  

1.  Corrupt the TRUTHs given us by God. 
Started way back when they went to work for the Levites so they could SCRIBE.  Why is that important?  That is where we find the TRUTH.  A word here, a word there.  That's all it takes. 

EXAMPLE    Highest Holy Day  -  PASSOVER  Pascha   
Kept death from us in Egypt.  CHRIST CONQUERS DEATH. 
BUT One time in all the Word of God Pascha/Passover is translated  to  "easter" and
NEXT thing you know PASSOVER has become about BUNNIES and pretty dresses and egg (think egg and sperm) hunts and  Oh, we should go to church that day.   It isn't a coincidence that there was a fertility goddess the pagans worshipped around that time.  REALLY there are no coincidences with GOD.  


2.  Make the "world" or "flesh life"  LOOK better than the Spiritual life.  DECEPTION

Anything and everything to make us NOT PUT GOD FIRST, ALWAYS.
Cars, planes trains automobiles.  Keeping up with the Joneses.  Soon,  Satan is going to make those dreams come true.  So enticing. And all you have to do is.....and all this will be yours.  MARKED

What does Satan know?  The easier we have it the less we look to God. The less we look to God the easier it is to deceive.   

3.  IDK right now, 

You've heard about the New world order/one world order.  Or the top percent that runs the worlds economy.  Or the illumanitti or however its spelled.  WE can see how the thinGs that are AN ABOMINATION to God are becoming the "accepted" way to view things, pushed so hard it makes you want to... ???,  anyway

Any guesstimate on how many mom and pop businesses have gone under JUST IN THE last couple months?  The BIG ONES, sailing through as they continue to "absorb" and get bigger.  Makes me think of the "Blob".   Remember how many banks there used to be?  Not long till "money" is all just "info" held by someone else. 

What ever happens,  at the time appointed by God,  there will on this planet be a "beast"/system of sorts that rises up.  There will be multiple "heads"/persons in charge in which ALL functions of the world happen.  They will have ABSORBED all individuality and will be in control.  And they will all be working together.  The Politics, the Money, the information we are given so the what we "know".  

Only thing missing is that one thing that keeps this world at war RELIGION.  But here steps up one to "bring it all together"  One in which "whatever" you need from religion  will be accommodated  

Something DEADLY is going to happen to SOME part of it that will SEEM to make it all fall apart.   
Now,  if that system is "ruling" the world,  then everything goes bad.  
Then it is fixed and the WHOLE WORLD WILL BE "INDEBTED" to its NEW saviour, the image set up.  

WE have just made it through the first 3 1/2 years.  

A war in heaven, Satans and his angels time on earth has come. 

Praise the LORD, right before he is kicked out, GOD WILL SEND HIS WITNESSES.

If you hadn't had your eyes opened and "seen" what was happening do it now.  This is the time the 144,000 eyes will have their eyes opened.   


When Satan arrives his "angels" will takeover as the "rulers" of the beast/system and Satan himself will take over as the RELIGIOUS LEADER.  


 THIS IS THE TEST FOR YOUR LIFE.  

For those of us who have on the gospel armor it is time to USE the wisdom and knowledge God has given us. 

We have been given the events that are to come.  Remain prepared.   No buying and selling coming.  (bartering works) 

But what some of the things we are told? 

Matthew 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Matthew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Matthew 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Matthew 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.


Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


The two witnesses killed, the party going on, and in the clouds, the armies of God come to DESTROY THE WICKED. And those who are alive and remain, those who have not taken the mark of the beast, those who have overcome, those who have endure, those who have STOOD, they ARE CHANGED and receive the reward while wrath falls upon those who failed.  


KINDA like that I think.  

Some times your posts are so long it is hard to answer. But still I love talking with you sister, God bless you.

 

The beast in Rev 19 is fought with the sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus.

Is it the gospel sword?

Did the gospel sword divide Rome? Bring the Roman Empire to an end?

-------

The word tribulation, just means trouble, as in Jacob's trouble.

 

God/pure love, does not bring trouble, only blessings.

 

Wrath, is God withdrawing His blessings because of rejection of His love.

 

But after thinking about it, I will agree with you.

Job had troubles, even though it was not because of his personal sin.

So Job experienced trouble, the troubles of this world, but not because of God's wrath against sin.

Yes?

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Some times your posts are so long it is hard to answer. But still I love talking with you sister, God bless you.

 

The beast in Rev 19 is fought with the sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus.

Is it the gospel sword?

Did the gospel sword divide Rome? Bring the Roman Empire to an end?

-------

The word tribulation, just means trouble, as in Jacob's trouble.

 

God/pure love, does not bring trouble, only blessings.

 

Wrath, is God withdrawing His blessings because of rejection of His love.

 

But after thinking about it, I will agree with you.

Job had troubles, even though it was not because of his personal sin.

So Job experienced trouble, the troubles of this world, but not because of God's wrath against sin.

Yes?

 

 

 

Yes.  All the apostles had trials and tribulations.  The prophets too.  We are promised we will also.  

OK.  Short and sweet, doing my best.  I am sorry about the length.  I have been told NUMEROUS times.  I have been told no one will read them because they are so long.  Well,  I tried for a while to cut them short but it just feels like I am ripping someone off. 

PLEASE understand that my replies, though to you, aren't necessarily FOR you.  I just need for you to read in-between the lines so to speak.  I figure God leads people to many places and sometimes I think it comes more for those who never post but are seeking none the less. 

I am one of the lucky ones who started to STUDY the Word because I WAS going to prove someone WRONG in their belief.  Praise God and thank the Lord above I WAS WRONG.  COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG.  Didn't even come close, didn't have a clue, missed the mark and thought OH MY GOD, what else have I told people that WASN'T GODS TRUTH.  Turned out to be quite a bit I had to UN LEARN.  I have never stood firm on ANYTHING since if IT IS NOT WRITTEN by God.  And if it is taken out of context, there best be a whole lot of 2nd witnesses to what is being taught else where in the Word.  I better stop.  I think you are the last one to teach me something and that was just last week.  It never ends.  I hope I properly thanked you, if not please let me properly thank you now.  THANK YOU.  

 
What is wrath?  punishment, anger, indignation, vengeance, violent passion, justifiable abhorrence and
by implication a means of punishment


Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

Tribulation  -   persecution, pressure, trouble and tribulation 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Thessalonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

And that is WHY PRE TRIB IS IMPOSSIBLE
 

Tribulation comes to the saved as Wrath comes upon them.

Edited September 11, 2020 by DeighAnn
change wording

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

9This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

Scripture does not say the Mountains represent kings.

Yes it most certainly does, you just don't understand it, it seems.

((((Apollyon the Beast with no crowns)))) Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. (Same 7 Heads and 10 Horns as Rev. 12 and 13, the only difference is the BEAST SPOKEN OF HERE is Apollyon who has NO CROWNS and is in the bottomless pit. He is RELEASED from the pit.) 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Roman AND the coming Anti-Christ) are seven mountains (Seven POWERS), on which the woman (Harlot False Religions) sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings(Fractured Europe), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast(The Anti-Christ Beast not THIS BEAST, the Beast above is Apollyon).

The KEY to understanding this is its about 7 KINGS WHO FALL...........Do you get that? God REDUCES the Kingdoms/Mountains to only the KINGS WHO FALL which = 7 in number. Egypt had a LAST King who was all powerful over the Mediterranean Sea Region, but HE FELL. Assyria had a KING WHO FELL. Babylon we know had a KING WHO FELL, we can see that in Daniel 5, the MENE, MENE, TEKEL story. Persia had a KING WHO FELL, Greece had a King who fell and of course Rome received the MORTAL WOUND, so that was the 6th King who fell.

So, what is this riddle about? Its about the Anti-Christ who will be the ONLY King who both ARISES as a Beast Kingdom/Head and also FALLS as that same Beast Kingdom/Head, none of the other Beasts AROSE and FELL except the coming Anti-Christ, AND the point God is making is the LAST BEAST HEAD is a MAN........Not a Kingdom, if you don't believe that look at Dan. 7:11 and Revelation 19:20, in both instances the Beast has a MOUTH and is cast into HELLFIRE !!

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Rev. 13 says he has a MOUTH....Here he is cast into Hell, Kingdoms are not cast into hell per se, MEN are cast into hellfire and "Judged").

God REDUCED the Kingdoms to Kings THAT FELL !! So we could understand, if we seek very hard, and see that the LAST BEAST HEAD is a Man, whilst the other 6 were Kingdoms that had a King who AROSE............AND.............a King who FELL. 

Now, there are 7 HEADS (This is not even debatable, its Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome.......AND.......The  coming Anti-Christ/MAN) You get lost in the REDUCING of the Kingdoms to Kings somewhere down the line, you can't see why God is reducing the Kingdoms to Kings. Its to inform us the LAST BEAST KINGDOM is a man/One King, just like Rev. 13 tells us (666 the number of a MAN not a Kingdom per se). Thus he rules only 42 months, he never has a chance (like the others) to pass his Beast Kingdom on to another person/Son/General etc. etc. Jesus TAKES OVER !! Dan. 7 even tells us that the Ancient of Days will take over at that very point in time and give the Kingdom to the Saints. Amen.

In verse 10 its pointing out there are 7 KINGS THAT FALL........In other translations it states more correctly there are also seven kings who fall, meaning that as the 7 AROSE....................they will also FALL...............Well, if we stop and think for just a wee second, we already know this is true, God wins and the other 6 have already fallen as Beasts, this LAST BEAST is cast into hellfire. Amen.

Scriptures says there are 7 Kingdoms that ARISE...........and shows that all 7 will FALL. Somewhere down the line you are conflating the understanding brother. 

Just for others, whom might be wondering what I meant by the 7th is Apollyon. Hes been appointed as a Demon Principality (Power) over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan, God cast him in the pit 2000 some odd years ago. Thus he was over the other 6 Kingdoms, he will be over the Anti-Christ and Region again when hes released at the 1st Woe, thus he is OF THE 7...............and hes an 8th King in that hes the King of the Bottomless Pit (one of God's many riddles). But hes not a King on earth, thus there are only 7 Beast Heads, NOT 8. Apollyon was the Demon (prince of Persia) that resisted Micheal for 21 days in Dan. ch. 10.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Revelation Man

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Please do a thorough study on tribulation and wrath. 

 

Tribulation is the test.  Satan is the TEST.

Wrath is what happens if you fail.  So wrath on falls on them.

Reward is what happens when you pass.   So reward is for us.  

Always go back to the SIMPLE, straight path.  God makes is easy.  Man makes it complicated. 


If you get rid of all "pre trib" post, mid, pre wrath all the WORDS and just relax, and study (in which I know you are very well versed), let the story flow...  


A short story to get the simplicity across. 

Start with the mystery of iniquity doeth already work.  So, there are workings that have been going on since the Garden of Eden.  These are those workings we call "the synagogue of Satan".  (if you aren't in Christ, you are against Him, as not choosing is a choice, yes that is not totally correct and goes way deeper but not for now as many are finding their way or just love the world or whatever) 

Ask yourself what does Satan want?  To be God. To be worshipped as God.   He is going to get a chance to "sit" where God sits but just for a second.  BUT, in reality, it SERVES GODS PURPOSES.

God is offering ETERNAL better than we can imagine life.  I can't even put into words how crazy it is that this very fact is glossed over but whatever.  

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.  If we understand NOTHING else about that verse, it tells us we are all here on earth at the exact time God wants us to be,  for the exact reasons of God. 

 

There is to be a final battle ON EARTH, in the flesh.  

Just as the mystery of iniquity has been building up its armies, so has God in the body of Christ. 
(A major difference.  God's Gift is life vs Satan and the lake of fire).

So WHO is all this really about?  US.  Will we be vessels of honor or dishonor in His house.  

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 9:23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:24 Even US, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So God has given us all the information that will be on the coming test. 

He tells us that this information will fit you up with armor to pass the test with flying colors. 
This information will keep you from temptation/deception and you will receive the reward.
This information will keep you from failing thereby keeping you from wrath. 


So the battle grounds are being prepared.  God gives us TRUTH, all we need.


Satan is/has been (from heaven)  putting all his pieces in order on the battle field.  (Though NONE OF IT will ultimately be real, it sure is going to feel like it). 

So what is his plan of attack?  

1.  Corrupt the TRUTHs given us by God. 
Started way back when they went to work for the Levites so they could SCRIBE.  Why is that important?  That is where we find the TRUTH.  A word here, a word there.  That's all it takes. 

EXAMPLE    Highest Holy Day  -  PASSOVER  Pascha   
Kept death from us in Egypt.  CHRIST CONQUERS DEATH. 
BUT One time in all the Word of God Pascha/Passover is translated  to  "easter" and
NEXT thing you know PASSOVER has become about BUNNIES and pretty dresses and egg (think egg and sperm) hunts and  Oh, we should go to church that day.   It isn't a coincidence that there was a fertility goddess the pagans worshipped around that time.  REALLY there are no coincidences with GOD.  


2.  Make the "world" or "flesh life"  LOOK better than the Spiritual life.  DECEPTION

Anything and everything to make us NOT PUT GOD FIRST, ALWAYS.
Cars, planes trains automobiles.  Keeping up with the Joneses.  Soon,  Satan is going to make those dreams come true.  So enticing. And all you have to do is.....and all this will be yours.  MARKED

What does Satan know?  The easier we have it the less we look to God. The less we look to God the easier it is to deceive.   

3.  IDK right now, 

You've heard about the New world order/one world order.  Or the top percent that runs the worlds economy.  Or the illumanitti or however its spelled.  WE can see how the thinGs that are AN ABOMINATION to God are becoming the "accepted" way to view things, pushed so hard it makes you want to... ???,  anyway

Any guesstimate on how many mom and pop businesses have gone under JUST IN THE last couple months?  The BIG ONES, sailing through as they continue to "absorb" and get bigger.  Makes me think of the "Blob".   Remember how many banks there used to be?  Not long till "money" is all just "info" held by someone else. 

What ever happens,  at the time appointed by God,  there will on this planet be a "beast"/system of sorts that rises up.  There will be multiple "heads"/persons in charge in which ALL functions of the world happen.  They will have ABSORBED all individuality and will be in control.  And they will all be working together.  The Politics, the Money, the information we are given so the what we "know".  

Only thing missing is that one thing that keeps this world at war RELIGION.  But here steps up one to "bring it all together"  One in which "whatever" you need from religion  will be accommodated  

Something DEADLY is going to happen to SOME part of it that will SEEM to make it all fall apart.   
Now,  if that system is "ruling" the world,  then everything goes bad.  
Then it is fixed and the WHOLE WORLD WILL BE "INDEBTED" to its NEW saviour, the image set up.  

WE have just made it through the first 3 1/2 years.  

A war in heaven, Satans and his angels time on earth has come. 

Praise the LORD, right before he is kicked out, GOD WILL SEND HIS WITNESSES.

If you hadn't had your eyes opened and "seen" what was happening do it now.  This is the time the 144,000 eyes will have their eyes opened.   


When Satan arrives his "angels" will takeover as the "rulers" of the beast/system and Satan himself will take over as the RELIGIOUS LEADER.  


 THIS IS THE TEST FOR YOUR LIFE.  

For those of us who have on the gospel armor it is time to USE the wisdom and knowledge God has given us. 

We have been given the events that are to come.  Remain prepared.   No buying and selling coming.  (bartering works) 

But what some of the things we are told? 

Matthew 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Matthew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Matthew 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Matthew 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.


Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


The two witnesses killed, the party going on, and in the clouds, the armies of God come to DESTROY THE WICKED. And those who are alive and remain, those who have not taken the mark of the beast, those who have overcome, those who have endure, those who have STOOD, they ARE CHANGED and receive the reward while wrath falls upon those who failed.  


KINDA like that I think.  

Remember what the situation of that time was when the letters of the NT were written, say 45 AD -56 AD ish, 

Rome would destroy Jerusalem in about 10 to 30 years,

Israelites were being massacred,

The unbelieving Jews and Rome were persecuting the gospel kingdom/church,

And nothing could be written or spoken against Caesar and Rome.

This is why the prophecies and warnings to the people are foggy, because the Roman persecution was great, but could not be put in writing.

The beast is Caesar and Rome, you just couldn't say it or write it.

But everyone who knew the book of Daniel would know that Rome was the beast, the nation that followed Greece, the 4th beast of Dan. 7, and the iron of the statue in Dan. 2.

And the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem is confused with the final day of the Lord against the world/planet.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

It is an assumption to say that they are 7 different kingdoms.

They are all kings over one city/kingdom, Rome.

Read my above post, I explain this in vivid details. Its not about ONE CITY. The whole world gets judged, Babylon = the Whole World getting judged anyway. Rev. 16:19 tells us who God sees as Babylon the great. TRACK IT DOWN, in the 6th Vial we can look and see who gets defeated via the 6th Vial: HINT...........It says the Kings of ALL THE WHOLE WORLD gather to battle against God.........So, in verse 19, great Babylon = the Whole World.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

20 hours ago, Marathoner said:

There are seven hills within the walls of ancient Rome: Aventine, Caelian, Capitoline, Esquiline, Palatine, Quirinal, and Viminal. Three more hills are extant but those fall outside of the ancient walls, Vaticanus (Vatican Hill) being one of them. However, it's worth noting that 16 other cities were founded on seven hills... Seattle and Moscow being two. Trivia and nothing more.  

But its not about Rome. The bible tells us who its about elsewhere......LINE UPON LINE, PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Revelation Man

[abcdef]

8 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Read my above post, I explain this in vivid details.

Thanks for posting that, but there are too many assumptions for me.

 

8 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its not about ONE CITY.

You are right, Rev 17 is about 2 cities, Rome and Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is the harlot and Rome is the beast.

Unbelieving Jerusalem is shown in bondage to Rome in 96 AD.

The harlot is in union with Rome, attacking the gospel kingdom,

As shown in the letters to the 7 congregations.

 

8 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The whole world gets judged, Babylon = the Whole World getting judged anyway. Rev. 16:19 tells us who God sees as Babylon the great. TRACK IT DOWN, in the 6th Vial, see who gets defeated in the 6th Vial: HINT...........It says the Kings of ALL THE WHOLE WORLD gather to battle against God.........So, in verse 19, great Babylon = the Whole World.

First, "the whole world," in the Bible is the whole world of Israel, and not necessarily referring to the planet.

The whole world of Israel in 96 AD was mostly Europe, Africa, India, and the Middle East.

It excluded the Americas, the far East, Australia, etc.

------------

The great city is Jerusalem.

In Rev 16:19, it says that, "great Babylon came in remembrance before God," it does not say that the great city is Babylon.