The first of the seven warnings of plagues the earth will see.

[luigi]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

John was the youngest of the disciples and was, in fact, younger than Jesus. At that time, NOTHING was written in the NT. One of Paul's letters is probably the first part of the NT written. And we just don't know how much of what happened Jesus told the disciples. But by this time, John was old, and Jesus had been ascended for years. It was also written for all the reader's benefit over the centuries. 

I will tell you exactly what Jesus spoke to me:

In trying to answer His questions on chapters 4 & 5, Jesus spoke and said “Go study chapter 12.” (It sounded like an audible voice)

 

When I turned to chapter 12, He spoke and gave me a synopsis of that chapter.

“This chapter was Me introducing John to the dragon, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week; but I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a ‘history lesson’ for John. Count how many times the dragon is mentioned, including pronouns.”

 I counted 32 times. I could see that chapter 12 was certainly about the dragon!

Now you can test this by the written word of God and see if you can believe it. I know, some people imagine those first five verses are about the church. They just don't fit the church. 

 

John was exiled to the island of Patmos due to his faith in Christ. He would have been well aware of the scriptures about Christ, and therefore would not have been a child in Christ without any knowledge of the Word, when the Lord chose him to reveal his Revelation. 

You really do make up anything you want to fit your perspectives that contradict the Word.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

 

John was exiled to the island of Patmos due to his faith in Christ. He would have been well aware of the scriptures about Christ, and therefore would not have been a child in Christ without any knowledge of the Word, when the Lord chose him to reveal his Revelation. 

You really do make up anything you want to fit your perspectives that contradict the Word.

I was not making stuff up! Give me a make up break!  You are right: John was OLD at this time. Perhaps he had already read Matthew, Mark, and Luke. But do we know that FOR SURE? No, we do not. And John's gospel does not cover Jesus' birth. So in truth, there is no way to know what John knew about Jesus' birth. All you can do is guess. Who then is making stuff up? I am being honest with you, and doing my best to answer any questions you have. 
 

Now, please tell me why you wrote that I contradict the Word? Show me WHERE. If you make such an accusation, prove it so all here can see it. 

Next, if you don't believe these 5 verses are about Christ's birth, tell us all what YOU think they are saying.

Edited September 15, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:20 PM, luigi said:

The first four horsemen in Revelation 6 is a synopsis of the world's chaotic events leading to the beast's system. This is then followed by the opening of the fifth seal in which those who have been killed for the Word of God during this prior time, are told to wait a little bit longer for the number of their brethren who are to be killed as they had been, should be complete. The events under the fifth seal are then those in which the beast's system is underway for 42 months, while those under the sixth seal in which the Lord's wrath commences is upon the beast's worshippers following the beast's 42 months. 

Why not just leave the first 4 seals in their CONTEXT? Did you consider the context? The truth is, you are 2ooo years off. 

Rev. 5:

⁴ And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

⁵ And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

⁷ And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

What is God trying to show us in these verses? First, let's ask the question: WHY was Jesus not found in this first search? Do you know? Jesus asked ME that question and I could not answer at the time. The reason that search ended in failure is simple, at the time of this search, Jesus and not yet risen from the dead. (This part of the vision was history to John). In verse 5, Jesus JUST rose from the dead, and was then found worthy.  When? Circa 32 AD.

In verse 6, Jesus ascended into heaven, and John got to see that in the vision. WHEN? Again around 32 AD. 

In verse 7, Jesus got the book and in chapter 6 began right then opening the seals. WHEN? Around 32 AD. 

This is the context of the first seals. Most readers imagine future to us, but God and John were in the early church age. 

Therefore, seals 1 through 5 are EARLY CHURCH, not future to us today.  Those martyrs under the altar are CHURCH age martyrs. Without a doubt, Stephen was one of them. Are there still martyrs being killed? YES. So the church is still at the fifth seal and will remain there until the full number is reached.

So what is seal 1:  It is to represent the church sent out. 

Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. God limited them to 1/4 of the earth.

The events under the fifth seal are then those in which the beast's system is underway for 42 months  Rearranging: guaranteed to be proven wrong. you are 2000 years off. You apparently don't believe John, that the Beast's 42 months are in the LAST HALF of the week. You apparently don't even know where "the week" is in Revelation. You MUST consider TIME when you study Revelation.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Where is there any common sense reasoning in your claim, that once the Lord commences to reign and all the world's kingdoms become his, (which means he rules), that he then turns over the reigns of his power once again to the devil, the beast, and the beast's mouth? 

My friend, we use the WORD OF GOD to form Doctrine, not "common sense." However, we don't ignore common sense either when studying end times. Let's review: Jesus gets the book with seven seals into HIS hands in chapter 5. He opens the first 6 in chapter 6. Before God will allow the HURT on earth (the 70th week) to begin, God wants to see TWO Events completed: the 144,000 sealed, and the CHURCH seen safely in heaven. CHECK: chapter 7.

In Chapter 8, time has passed, the 144,000 are sealed, and the church is seen in heaven. NOw the HURT can begin. The 7th seal starts the 70th week. Jesus has already came as per 1 thes. 4, raised up the church, and went back to heaven. Jesus remains in heaven for the entire 70th week.

The first 6 trumpets are sounded in the first half of the 70th week. 

The man of sin arrives in Jerusalem with Gentile armies  (Rev. 11:1-2)
The Two witnesses arrive because HE just arrived. (Rev. 11:3)

The 7th trumpet sounds to mark the division point: the exact midpoint of the week.  The man of sin has entered the temple and declared that he is God. Those in Judea SEE the abomination and begin to flee (12:6)

The kingdoms of the world are taken (legally: a legal transaction: a closing) from Satan and given to Jesus.
The Angel Michael goes to war with Satan: he has no more legal hold to earth. Satan is cast down. 

What comes next in John's chronology? I did not write it, JOHN wrote it, backed by the Holy Spirit. John saw the BEAST RISE and wrote that He was given 42 months - starting right then, just after the midpoint of the week. 

Now, you are free to rearrange to your heart's content: but just know, when you rearrange, your theories will be proven wrong. 

 

By the way, just because he delegated power to the Beast and satan behind the beast does not mean "He turns over the reigns of His power." All He does is delegate 42 months of Authority to the Beast. Ask yourself:

WHO binds WHO up? WHO is bound for 1000 years?

WHO REIGNS for 1000 years?
Now WHO has the reigns of power?

Edited September 15, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

Revelation means to reveal. If the Lord in Revelation 12 were informing John that the devil tried to kill him as a baby (which was already well documented in both the OT and NT), there would be no revelation in that news.

Are you prepared to tell the Holy Spirit and Jesus that He should not have included these verses?

[luigi]

16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I was not making stuff up! Give me a make up break!  You are right: John was OLD at this time. Perhaps he had already read Matthew, Mark, and Luke. But do we know that FOR SURE? No, we do not. And John's gospel does not cover Jesus' birth. So in truth, there is no way to know what John knew about Jesus' birth. All you can do is guess. Who then is making stuff up? I am being honest with you, and doing my best to answer any questions you have. 
 

Now, please tell me why you wrote that I contradict the Word? Show me WHERE. If you make such an accusation, prove it so all here can see it. 

Next, if you don't believe these 5 verses are about Christ's birth, tell us all what YOU think they are saying.

It is true that I am guessing on John of Patmos' knowledge of Christ, but it is an educated guess, where the Lord does not pick a novice believer in Him to convey the Revelation. In contrast you are guessing that John of Patmos was a novice in Christ.

[luigi]

16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Are you prepared to tell the Holy Spirit and Jesus that He should not have included these verses?

I am prepared to take the Lord at His Word, where the events shown John in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 constitute the hereafter, after circa 95 AD when the Lord provides us with the book of Revelation. This means that Revelation 12 does not include a historical accounting of Jesus' birth circa some 95 years earlier.

[iamlamad]

On 9/16/2020 at 6:38 AM, luigi said:

I am prepared to take the Lord at His Word, where the events shown John in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 constitute the hereafter, after circa 95 AD when the Lord provides us with the book of Revelation. This means that Revelation 12 does not include a historical accounting of Jesus' birth circa some 95 years earlier.

where the events shown John in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 constitute the hereafter  This is imagination: God did not use the word only - leaving Him free to include some history - which He did. For example, When Satan was kicked out of heaven, before earth was created, he convinced 1/3 of the angels to go with him. History or future? OF COURSE history. 

Jesus' words to me: " I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a ‘history lesson’ for John.."

It seems then, you either think I made this up, or it was not Jesus speaking to me.  I can assure you, I KNOW the voice of my Lord. And you base this on ONE VERSE that you don't read correctly. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by iamlamad

[luigi]

https://www.propublica.org/article/climate-change-will-force-a-new-american-migration

What would we say of people who ignore all the signs the earth is providing due to mankind's excessive use of fossil fuels? Would they not constitute those in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 who refuse to believe the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

https://www.propublica.org/article/climate-change-will-force-a-new-american-migration

What would we say of people who ignore all the signs the earth is providing due to mankind's excessive use of fossil fuels? Would they not constitute those in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 who refuse to believe the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

First, God put the fossil fuels in the ground, then gave the wisdom to use them. Why is to say anyone has any EXCESS use? Are you falling for the lie that WE as humans are causing global warming? Yours is a silly question, because ONLY GOD could say "excess use." 

We don't have to wonder who will believe the big lie: it will be all whose names are not written in heaven. It is harvest time and God is not going to leave any "harvest" out in the field, or along the fence. God has designed what is coming to force all fence sitters OFF THE FENCE - forcing them to make decision. 

Remember the guy in the wheelchair: the theoretical physicist who made predictions of black holes? He would be a prime example of someone who refused to receive the love of the truth. But many many others, refuse to receive it because they want to do things THEIR WAY. In other words, burning fossil fuels has NOTHING to do with not receiving the truth.