Blasphemy Some May Say

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

The Second Coming and Rapture both are considered to be the same event

Paul talks about this in 1Corinthians15:52 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed" The rapture and resurrection are two different words and two different events for some people. For others they could happen at the same time: "In the twinkle of an eye". I have already been resurrected from the dead so many times I can not even keep count. Because the resurrection power of God is already at work in us. 

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I prefer what these verses say about the harpazo.

Yes this is the resurrection when people are reunited with their physical body and their body is raised up from the earth. I would assume these are the people that will rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. The actual question was what about the people that die before Jesus returns. They had lots of questions for Paul about this event then as people do now. 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

what about the people that die before Jesus returns.

They are the dead in Christ referred to in 1 Thess 4:16

All those who are members of the body of Christ when they die are to be raised up first, before those that are alive are "seized" to be with them and Christ in the air when He returns.

Are you wanting to discuss where the spirit of a deceased believer goes until Christ's return? 

[JohnR7]

10 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Are you wanting to discuss where the spirit of a deceased believer goes until Christ's return? 

I have seen heaven at least three times. So I have a little bit of an idea of where we go. 

[Montana Marv]

20 hours ago, Diaste said:

Um...what?

In essence.  The complete and total Word was in existence in the beginning, nothing new.  The Scriptures we have are part of the complete Word from the beginning.  And in the Scripture we see that Jesus states that only God the Father knows the timing of the Bridegroom.  Watch and Wait are the instructions we were given.  Now if this is the case; there are no Scriptures which give testimony to the timing of the Bridegroom.  No event can be tied to it.  No Scriptures stating its time.  Nada, nothing,  It ain't there.  But???  It ain't there.  But Scripture says;  It ain't there.  But I was given insight from the H.S.  He does not know either.  This is one event which has been hidden from the beginning.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

19 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Those who say that Scripture gives us the time of the Harpozo or Rapture do not believe in the Word, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son..  The "Word" which has existed since creation is the same yesterday, today and forever.  It does not change.  And Jesus stated in Scripture that only God the Father knows when the Rapture will occur.

True, Scripture does not tell us the time of the Rapture. However, just because Jesus said, "of that day and hour no one knows/perceives...but My Father only" (Mt. 24:36), this does not preclude God from revealing that knowledge in the future.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God has a long history of revealing events to His people beforehand, even in the warning of Lot only the night before. Whereas he gave Moses a 3-day notice before his descent upon Mount Sinai. Many other examples abound.

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

True, Scripture does not tell us the time of the Rapture. However, just because Jesus said, "of that day and hour no one knows/perceives...but My Father only" (Mt. 24:36), this does not preclude God from revealing that knowledge in the future.

But it does, if it is part of the Word.  It will be revealed by God the Father the moment it happens, and not before.  That is why I have said; All written or oral words, ordinances, prophecy, Scripture was Christ from the beginning.  Which is everlasting to everlasting.  This is why Christ has said in Scripture (himself) that Only God the Father knows of this time.  It cannot be revealed beforehand, because if it is, IT is not Scripture.  Then one opens up a can of worms, Can Scripture be trusted.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JohnR7]

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

In essence.  The complete and total Word was in existence in the beginning, nothing new.

All is actually IN the word BEGINING. "I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’" (Isaiah 46:10) God gave Moses all of His plan of salvation "face to face" Exodus 33:11. Only Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses. "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him." (Deuteronomy 18:15) Some of the Bible prophets looked forward to Jesus but they still do not add anything to what we receive from what we learn from Jesus. 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

But it does, if it is part of the Word.  It will be revealed by God the Father the moment it happens, and not before.  That is why I have said; All written or oral words, ordinances, prophecy, Scripture was Christ from the beginning.  Which is everlasting to everlasting.  This is why Christ has said in Scripture (himself) that Only God the Father knows of this time.  It cannot be revealed beforehand, because if it is, IT is not Scripture.  Then one opens up a can of worms, Can Scripture be trusted.

In Christ

Montana Marv

NO can of worms: just be more specific: what we CANNOT know is the day nor the hour. The day and the hour of the day is Hidden in the Father. only HE knows. This does not prevent us from knowing pre - mid - prewrath - post. Of course we can know which, because scripture rightly understood TELLS US. 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

NO can of worms: just be more specific: what we CANNOT know is the day nor the hour. The day and the hour of the day is Hidden in the Father. only HE knows. This does not prevent us from knowing pre - mid - prewrath - post. Of course we can know which, because scripture rightly understood TELLS US. 

But no position is supported by the Scripture. I go pretrib because we have no idea when the 70th Week will begin. But when it does start, the clock is ticking towards the 2nd Coming and all can put on their prognostic glasses.

In Christ

Montana Marv