Jew and Gentile believers are "all Israel"!

[Moby]

Our God and Father declared in Isaiah that only a remnant of physical Israel will be saved when He is about to finish His Word upon the earth:

Romans 9:27-28  And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:  (28)  for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

But two chapters later our God and Father is declaring “all Israel” shall be saved:

Romans 11:26  and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The only way for this to be true is if our God and Father declared from the beginning that the commonwealth of Israel will be made up of many Jews and Gentiles grafted into ONE olive tree through the “election of grace”.

Some description was added in parenthesizes within Romans chapter 11 to help demonstrate that the ONE olive tree is made made up of both Jew and Gentile believers who will be called “all Israel“:

Romans 11:1-32  I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For  I (Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.  (2)  God did not cast off his people(Jews) which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:  (3)  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.  (4)  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men(Jews), who have not bowed the knee to Baal.  (5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant(of Jews) according to the election of grace.  (6)  But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.  (7)  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he(Israel) obtained not; but the election(a chosen remnant of Jews) obtained it, and the rest(the majority of the Jews) were hardened:  (8)  according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day.  (9)  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them(the majority of the Jews):  (10)  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, And bow thou down their back always.  (11)  I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their(the majority of the Jews) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.  (12)  Now if their(the majority of the Jews) fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  (13)  But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as  I (Paul) am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;  (14)  if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them(a chosen remnant of Jews).  (15)  For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?  (16)  And if the firstfruit(Jesus) is holy, so is the lump(Israel): and if the root(Jesus) is holy, so are the branches(individual believing Jews).  (17)  But if some of the branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive(believing Gentiles), wast grafted in among them(believing Jews), and didst become partaker with them(believing Jews) of the root(Jesus) of the fatness of the olive tree(Israel);  (18)  glory not over the branches(believing Jews): but if thou(believing Gentiles) gloriest, it is not thou(believing Gentiles) that bearest the root(Jesus), but the root thee(believing Gentiles).  (19)  Thou wilt say then, branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, that  I  (believing Gentiles) might be grafted in.  (20)  Well; by their(unbelieving Jews) unbelief they were broken off, and thou(believing Gentiles) standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:  (21)  for if God spared not the natural branches(Jews), neither will he spare thee(Gentiles).  (22)  Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them(unbelieving Jews) that fell, severity; but toward thee(believing Gentiles), God’s goodness, if thou(believing Gentiles) continue in his goodness: otherwise thou(believing Gentiles that fall) also shalt be cut off.  (23)  And they also, if they(unbelieving Jews) continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them(believing Jews) in again.  (24)  For if thou(believing Gentiles) wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree(all Gentiles), and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree(Israel); how much more shall these(Jews), which are the natural branches(Jews), be grafted into their own olive tree(Israel)?  (25)  For I would not, brethren(believing Jews and believing Gentiles), have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel(the majority of the Jews), until the fulness of the Gentiles(all the believing Gentiles) be come in;  (26)  and so all Israel(all the believing Jews and believing Gentiles elected by grace from the foundation of the world) shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness(all the unbelieving Jews cut off their olive tree) from Jacob:  (27)  And this is my covenant unto them(Jews), When I shall take away their sins.  (28)  As touching the gospel, they(unbelieving Jews) are enemies for your(believing Gentiles) sake: but as touching the election, they(believing Jews) are beloved for the fathers’ sake.  (29)  For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.  (30)  For as ye(believing Gentiles) in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their(unbelieving Jews) disobedience,  (31)  even so have these(unbelieving Jews) also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you(believing Gentiles)  they(believing Jews) also may now obtain mercy. 

So the mystery is the commonwealth of Israel is made up of only those believing Jews and believing Gentiles who are not broken off of that ONE olive tree called “all Israel”!

Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people:

Romans 9:22-26 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: (23) and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, (24) even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? (25) As he saith also in Hosea, I will call that my people, which was not my people; And her beloved, that was not beloved. (26) And it shall be, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.

The new covenant was made through Jesus’ blood and includes the salvation of souls from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation including physical Israel who all become one holy nation in Christ:

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, (10) and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Jesus declared that both the flock of believing physical Israel and the flock of believing Gentiles will become ONE flock with ONE shepherd:

John 10:16 And other sheep(Gentiles) I have, which are not of this fold(Jews): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

There is much more truth on this subject here:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Moby

[Revelation Man]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:30 AM, Moby said:

Our God and Father declared in Isaiah that only a remnant of physical Israel will be saved when He is about to finish His Word upon the earth:

Romans 9:27-28  And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:  (28)  for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

But two chapters later our God and Father is declaring “all Israel” shall be saved:

Romans 11:26  and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The only way for this to be true is if our God and Father declared from the beginning that the commonwealth of Israel will be made up of many Jews and Gentiles grafted into ONE olive tree through the “election of grace”.

Some description was added in parenthesizes within Romans chapter 11 to help demonstrate that the ONE olive tree is made made up of both Jew and Gentile believers who will be called “all Israel“:

Romans 11:1-32  I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For  I (Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.  (2)  God did not cast off his people(Jews) which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:  (3)  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.  (4)  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men(Jews), who have not bowed the knee to Baal.  (5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant(of Jews) according to the election of grace.  (6)  But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.  (7)  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he(Israel) obtained not; but the election(a chosen remnant of Jews) obtained it, and the rest(the majority of the Jews) were hardened:  (8)  according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day.  (9)  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them(the majority of the Jews):  (10)  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, And bow thou down their back always.  (11)  I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their(the majority of the Jews) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.  (12)  Now if their(the majority of the Jews) fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  (13)  But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as  I (Paul) am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;  (14)  if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them(a chosen remnant of Jews).  (15)  For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?  (16)  And if the firstfruit(Jesus) is holy, so is the lump(Israel): and if the root(Jesus) is holy, so are the branches(individual believing Jews).  (17)  But if some of the branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive(believing Gentiles), wast grafted in among them(believing Jews), and didst become partaker with them(believing Jews) of the root(Jesus) of the fatness of the olive tree(Israel);  (18)  glory not over the branches(believing Jews): but if thou(believing Gentiles) gloriest, it is not thou(believing Gentiles) that bearest the root(Jesus), but the root thee(believing Gentiles).  (19)  Thou wilt say then, branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, that  I  (believing Gentiles) might be grafted in.  (20)  Well; by their(unbelieving Jews) unbelief they were broken off, and thou(believing Gentiles) standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:  (21)  for if God spared not the natural branches(Jews), neither will he spare thee(Gentiles).  (22)  Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them(unbelieving Jews) that fell, severity; but toward thee(believing Gentiles), God’s goodness, if thou(believing Gentiles) continue in his goodness: otherwise thou(believing Gentiles that fall) also shalt be cut off.  (23)  And they also, if they(unbelieving Jews) continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them(believing Jews) in again.  (24)  For if thou(believing Gentiles) wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree(all Gentiles), and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree(Israel); how much more shall these(Jews), which are the natural branches(Jews), be grafted into their own olive tree(Israel)?  (25)  For I would not, brethren(believing Jews and believing Gentiles), have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel(the majority of the Jews), until the fulness of the Gentiles(all the believing Gentiles) be come in;  (26)  and so all Israel(all the believing Jews and believing Gentiles elected by grace from the foundation of the world) shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness(all the unbelieving Jews cut off their olive tree) from Jacob:  (27)  And this is my covenant unto them(Jews), When I shall take away their sins.  (28)  As touching the gospel, they(unbelieving Jews) are enemies for your(believing Gentiles) sake: but as touching the election, they(believing Jews) are beloved for the fathers’ sake.  (29)  For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.  (30)  For as ye(believing Gentiles) in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their(unbelieving Jews) disobedience,  (31)  even so have these(unbelieving Jews) also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you(believing Gentiles)  they(believing Jews) also may now obtain mercy. 

So the mystery is the commonwealth of Israel is made up of only those believing Jews and believing Gentiles who are not broken off of that ONE olive tree called “all Israel”!

Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people:

Romans 9:22-26 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: (23) and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, (24) even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? (25) As he saith also in Hosea, I will call that my people, which was not my people; And her beloved, that was not beloved. (26) And it shall be, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.

The new covenant was made through Jesus’ blood and includes the salvation of souls from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation including physical Israel who all become one holy nation in Christ:

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, (10) and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Jesus declared that both the flock of believing physical Israel and the flock of believing Gentiles will become ONE flock with ONE shepherd:

John 10:16 And other sheep(Gentiles) I have, which are not of this fold(Jews): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

There is much more truth on this subject here:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

 

I think we have an Alter Ego here........Sherlock Holmes is on the case. 

Notice how many times Paul uses the word THEM ? Hes identifying Israel as a THEM. I did a whole blog on this a few years back which proves Paul was pointing to a SEPARATE Israel and Gentile Church via his uses of them, us, they etc. etc. MOVING ON. The root is not Jesus per se, its God the Father because Israel was God the Fathers Bride, but that is semantics. 

Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

(((((Paul writes to the Romans (Gentiles of course) and hes telling them the plight of the Jews, but he has AN ANGLE, if you notice, in his own subtle way, hes WARNING the Romans not to lose their FAITH like his Jewish brothers did, else you become accursed like they are. He then says they were given the Promises and the Laws to abide until the PROMISE came, and they then rejected that Promise of the SEED which is Jesus Christ, we know.)))))

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

{{{{{ Paul is telling the Romans that God chooses whom He wills to serve him, hes warning them not to get the BIG HEAD, not to think they are something SPECIAL in Gods eyes, God chose Jacob before he was even born over Esau. Thus the Elder (Israel) was made to serve the YOUNGER (Gentile Church) because God saw fit for this to be. It is not for us, the Jews nor the Romans to QUESTION why God chooses, Hes the Potters Wheel, he creates that which He wills. God has His own righteous reasons, far above what mere men might be able to comprehend, I think I understand, God knew Judaism would OVERTAKE the Christian faith if it remained Jerusalem CENTERED, so God took the Mantle from the Jews and gave it unto the Gentiles. As a Nation, Israel would have sooner or later perverted the message of Christ, Galatians ch. 3 proves this, they were being taught by Jews that they had to become like the Jews to be of God, to practice Judaism, hence they whole there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles doesn't even mean what most who error on this passage thinks it means, it means that the Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be of God. There is neither Male nor Female, Jew nor Greek, but there are MALES & FEMALES and there are Jews & Greeks, we know this, Paul is making a point, you don't have to become a Man to be of Christ if you are a Woman, AND if you are a Gentle you don't have to become a Jew to be of Christ either. You are of Christ, WHETHER Male or Female, whether Jew or Gentile, by FAITH ALONE. It has zilch with Jews and Gentile being one per se, just like Men and Women are not ONE per se. Its just the opposite meaning of what many suppose, errantly. }}}}}

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

{{{{{God gives all men FREE WILL. God knows who will do what, but He does not force us to choose any such way, He just has pre knowledge of our choices. }}}}}

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

{{{{{ God's goal was to reach all Mankind, of course, the SEED (Jesus) had to come first, hes the PROMISE, then God could reach all the world via His mercies. But there is still an Israel and there is still a Gentile world. Romans 9 sets all this up, Paul is WARNING the Romans about the UNBELIEF that made his brothers fall.}}}}}

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

{{{{{ Paul then tells the Romans he wishes his fellow Jews would believe, but he know many are accursed to hell because of unbelief. They have a ZEAL,  but a zeal via IGNORANCE. We are saved by Faith via Grace ALONE.}}}}}

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

{{{{{Paul is telling the Romans, you must take this Mantle, taking the Gospel unto all the world very serious, you have been given the Mantle which God has taken away from the Jews because of unbelief.}}}}}

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

{{{{{Paul, in his own subtle way is TEACHING the Romans/Gentiles how Israel FELL.........and what they need to do to not fall in the same manner as the Jews did, via UNBELIEF. Take the Gospel of Jesus unto the ends of the earth, and be OBEDIENT unto the Holy Spirit, unlike Israel/Jews, who always sought after other gods and to gain wealth in any manner possible. }}}}}

Chapter 11 then explains itself, ALL Israel will be saved (not every Jew but Israels SEED is saved) Israel will repent only after the TIME OF THE Gentiles be come full (Gentiles are Raptured). The Jews will be grafted back into the tree of the Family when they BELIEVE on Christ Jesus their Savior. In ch. 11 Paul is explaining to the Romans that God has not forsaken the Jews (THEM/THEY). They will repent, but only after the Gentile Church is Raptured.

 

AMEN...........

Edited September 13, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Moby]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Notice how many times Paul uses the word THEM ? Hes identifying Israel as a THEM. I did a whole blog on this a few years back which proves Paul was pointing to a SEPARATE Israel and Gentile Church via his uses of them, us, they etc. etc. MOVING ON.

Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

(((((Paul writes to the Romans (Gentiles of course) and hes telling them the plight of the Jews, but he has AN ANGLE, if you notice, in his own subtle way, hes WARNING the Romans not to lose their FAITH like his Jewish brothers did, else you become accursed like they are. He then says they were given the Promises and the Laws to abide until the PROMISE came, and they then rejected that Promise of the SEED which is Jesus Christ, we know.)))))

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

{{{{{ Paul is telling the Romans that God chooses whom He wills to serve him, hes warning them not to get the BIG HEAD, not to think they are something SPECIAL in Gods eyes, God chose Jacob before he was even born over Esau. Thus the Elder (Israel) was made o serve the YOUNGER (Gentile Church) because God saw fit for this to be. It is not for us, the Jews nor the Romans to QUESTION why God chooses, hes the Potters Wheel, he creates that which He wills. God as is own righteous reasons, far above what mere men might be able to comprehend, I think I understand, God knew Judaism would OVERTAKE the Christian faith if it remained Jerusalem CENTERED, so God took the Mantle from the Jews and gave it unto the Gentiles. As a Nation, Israel would have sooner or later perverted the message of Christ, Galatians ch. 4 proves this, they were being taught by Jews that they had to become like the Jews to be of God, to practice Judaism, hence they whole there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles doesn't even mean what most who error on this passage thinks it meas, it means that the Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be of God. There is neither Male nor Female, Jew nor Greek, but there are MALES & FEMALES and there are Jews & Greeks, we know this, Paul is making a point, you don;t have to become a Man to be of Christ if you are a Woman, AND if you are a Gentle you don't have to become a Jew to be of Christ either. You are of Christ, WHETHER Male or Female, whether Jew or Gentile, by FAITH ALONE. It has zilch with Jews and Gentile being one per se, just like Men and Women are not ONE per se. Its just the opposite. }}}}}

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

{{{{{God gives all men FREE WILL. God knows who will do what, but He does not force us to choose any such way, He just has pre knowledge of our choices. }}}}}

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

{{{{{ God's goal was to reach all Mankind, of course, the SEED (Jesus) had to come first, hes the PROMISE, then God could reach all the world via His mercies. But there is still an Israel and there is still a Gentile world. Romans 9 sets all this up, Paul is WARNING the Romans about the UNBELIEF that made his brothers fall.}}}}}

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

{{{{{ Paul then tells the Romans he wishes his fellow Jews would believe, but he know many are accursed to hell because of unbelief. They have a ZEAL,  but a zeal via IGNORANCE. We are saved by Faith via Grace ALONE.}}}}}

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

{{{{{Paul is telling the Romans, you must take this Mantle, taking the Gospel unto all the world very serious, you have been given the Mantle which God has taken away from the Jews because of unbelief.}}}}}

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

{{{{{Paul, in his own subtle way is TEACHING the Romans/Gentiles how Israel FELL.........and what they need to do to not fall in the same manner as the Jews did, via UNBELIEF. Take the Gospel of Jesus unto the ends of the earth, and be OBEDIENT unto the Holy Spirit, unlike Israel/Jews, who always sought after other gods and to gain wealth in any manner possible. }}}}}

Chapter 11 then explains itself, ALL Israel will be saved (not every Jew but Israels SEED is saved) Israel will repent only after the TIME OF THE Gentiles be come full (Gentiles are Raptured). The Jews will be grafted back into the tree of the Family when they BELIEVE on Christ Jesus their Savior. In ch. 11 Paul is explaining to the Romans that God has not forsaken the Jews (THEM/THEY). They will repent, but only after the Gentile Church is Raptured.

 

AMEN...........

 

 

 

Father clearly chooses who will be part of the elect as Jesus makes very clear here:

John 17:9 & 12  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine: (12)  While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Many are called such as Judas Iscariot but he was clearly not part of the elect(chosen):

Matthew 22:14  For many are called, but few chosen(elect).

Paul is simply proving what Jesus taught many times that there is an elect chosen by God from the foundation of the world:

Ephesians 1:3-4  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:  (4)  even as he(Father) chose(elect) us in him(Jesus) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

But there are a lot of false teachers who are more than willing to go beyond what is written as they are puffed up:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Moby.

I'll say it again (since you moved to a new thread),

First, the word "salvation" is NOT about a person's justification! The word "salvation" comes from prophecies in the TANAKH (the OT) regarding the RESCUE of the nation of Israel. So, when Paul said, "salvation is come unto the Gentiles" and "all Israel shall be saved," know that Paul meant something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than people today THINK he meant!

The word in the Hebrew text is yimlaa'eeT stemming from ...

4422 maalaT (maw-lat'). A primitive root; properly, to be smooth, i.e. (by implication) to escape (as if by slipperiness); causatively, to release or rescue; specifically, to bring forth young, emit sparks
-- deliver (self), escape, lay, leap out, let alone, let go, preserve, save, X speedily, X surely.

This word was translated into the Greek of Romans 10:13 as "sootheesetai" stemming from ...

4982 soozoo (sode'-zo). From a primary soos (contraction for obsolete saoos, "safe"); to save, i.e. Deliver or protect (literally or figuratively) -- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

The noun forms are "salvation," "deliverance," and "a rescue." The verb forms are "to be saved," "to be delivered," and "to be rescued."

Here's an example:
 

Joel 2:28-3:2 (KJV)

28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land."

Verse 32 was quoted by Paul in Romans 10:

Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)

8 But what saith it? 

"The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart": (Deuteronomy 30:14)

that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, 

"Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed (disappointed)." (Isaiah 28:16)

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 

13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Joel 2:32)

 

Also, you need to understand that the Jews ("Yhudiym") are children of Judah ("Yhudah") but there were also 11 other tribes and Joseph ("Yosef") was divided into two tribes, Manasseh ("Manasheh") and Ephraim ("Efrayim"), Joseph's two sons. The term "Jews" does NOT refer to all of the children of Israel. Each of the twelve tribes (with the exception of the 13th tribe, Levi  or "Leviy") had a portion of the Land as its inheritance. The tribe of Benjamin ("Bin-Yamiyn") sided with Judah when Solomon's ("Shlomoh's") son, Rehoboam ("RchaV'aam"), split the Kingdom in his arrogance and stubborn unkindness to his people. "The love of money is the root of all evil."

The ten northern tribes of Israel ("Yisra'eel") remained "Israel" and the two southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin were simply called "Judah," and for many years after and through several dynasties in the north, they were two warring, neighboring kingdoms. The ten northern tribes were eventually taken captive by Shalmaneser ("Shalman'ecer") king of Assyria. They never returned as whole tribes out of captivity and their fate is currently unknown. The two southern tribes were eventually taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar ("Nvuwkhadne'tstsar") king of Babylon, but they DID return from captivity in the first year of Cyrus ("Kowresh"), king of Persia.

Since these returning captives had once been called "the kingdom of Judah," they returned to the land of Judah and re-established their nation, although they now had no king technically, even though Zerubbabel ("ZruwbaVel") was in the king's lineage. They were still technically under the kings of Medo-Persia, whose kingdom passed into the hands of Alexander the Great of Macedon and from there under the empire of Seleucus which eventually fell under the empire of Rome.

This short history lesson is to show that when Yeshua` said, "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Jews)," He may actually have been referring to the ten northern tribes of Israel, not to the Gentiles!

After all, Yeshua` also said,

Matthew 15:24 (KJV)

24 But he answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And, Paul's statement "all Israel shall be saved" is definitely referring to the ten northern tribes, as well!

Now, that's not to say that we who are Gentiles are not included; however, we are included under the Messiah's adoption and are thus adopted into the tribe of Judah! THAT'S where the Gentiles fit in!

However, when you say, "Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people," you ARE skating on the thin ice of replacement theology.

[Moby]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Moby.

I'll say it again (since you moved to a new thread),

First, the word "salvation" is NOT about a person's justification! The word "salvation" comes from prophecies in the TANAKH (the OT) regarding the RESCUE of the nation of Israel. So, when Paul said, "salvation is come unto the Gentiles" and "all Israel shall be saved," know that Paul meant something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than people today THINK he meant!

The word in the Hebrew text is yimlaa'eeT stemming from ...

4422 maalaT (maw-lat'). A primitive root; properly, to be smooth, i.e. (by implication) to escape (as if by slipperiness); causatively, to release or rescue; specifically, to bring forth young, emit sparks
-- deliver (self), escape, lay, leap out, let alone, let go, preserve, save, X speedily, X surely.

This word was translated into the Greek of Romans 10:13 as "sootheesetai" stemming from ...

4982 soozoo (sode'-zo). From a primary soos (contraction for obsolete saoos, "safe"); to save, i.e. Deliver or protect (literally or figuratively) -- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

The noun forms are "salvation," "deliverance," and "a rescue." The verb forms are "to be saved," "to be delivered," and "to be rescued."

Here's an example:
 

Joel 2:28-3:2 (KJV)

28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land."

Verse 32 was quoted by Paul in Romans 10:

Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)

8 But what saith it? 

"The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart": (Deuteronomy 30:14)

that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, 

"Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed (disappointed)." (Isaiah 28:16)

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 

13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Joel 2:32)

 

Also, you need to understand that the Jews ("Yhudiym") are children of Judah ("Yhudah") but there were also 11 other tribes and Joseph ("Yosef") was divided into two tribes, Manasseh ("Manasheh") and Ephraim ("Efrayim"), Joseph's two sons. The term "Jews" does NOT refer to all of the children of Israel. Each of the twelve tribes (with the exception of the 13th tribe, Levi  or "Leviy") had a portion of the Land as its inheritance. The tribe of Benjamin ("Bin-Yamiyn") sided with Judah when Solomon's ("Shlomoh's") son, Rehoboam ("RchaV'aam"), split the Kingdom in his arrogance and stubborn unkindness to his people. "The love of money is the root of all evil."

The ten northern tribes of Israel ("Yisra'eel") remained "Israel" and the two southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin were simply called "Judah," and for many years after and through several dynasties in the north, they were two warring, neighboring kingdoms. The ten northern tribes were eventually taken captive by Shalmaneser ("Shalman'ecer") king of Assyria. They never returned as whole tribes out of captivity and their fate is currently unknown. The two southern tribes were eventually taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar ("Nvuwkhadne'tstsar") king of Babylon, but they DID return from captivity in the first year of Cyrus ("Kowresh"), king of Persia.

Since these returning captives had once been called "the kingdom of Judah," they returned to the land of Judah and re-established their nation, although they now had no king technically, even though Zerubbabel ("ZruwbaVel") was in the king's lineage. They were still technically under the kings of Medo-Persia, whose kingdom passed into the hands of Alexander the Great of Macedon and from there under the empire of Seleucus which eventually fell under the empire of Rome.

This short history lesson is to show that when Yeshua` said, "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Jews)," He may actually have been referring to the ten northern tribes of Israel, not to the Gentiles!

After all, Yeshua` also said,

Matthew 15:24 (KJV)

24 But he answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And, Paul's statement "all Israel shall be saved" is definitely referring to the ten northern tribes, as well!

Now, that's not to say that we who are Gentiles are not included; however, we are included under the Messiah's adoption and are thus adopted into the tribe of Judah! THAT'S where the Gentiles fit in!

However, when you say, "Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people," you ARE skating on the thin ice of replacement theology.

Abraham was a Gentile:

Acts 15:14-18 Symeon hath rehearsed how first God visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. (15) And to this agree the words of the prophets;

 Abraham, his son Isaac, and his grandson Jacob were all Syrians:

Deuteronomy 26:5 And thou shalt answer and say before Jehovah thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father(Jacob); and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there, few in number; and he became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous(Israel).

God changed Jacob’s name to Israel:

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The name “Israel” means “he will rule as God”:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3478&t=KJV

Please notice that Israel was promised to become both a nation as well as a company of nations:

Genesis 35:10-11 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. (11) And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

This company of nations was a prophesy of the many believing Gentiles from all of the world who would become one holy nation with the believing Jews purchased unto God with the blood of Jesus from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation to become ONE kingdom of people:

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, (10) and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth.

Peter as a believing Jew declared himself a part of this ONE holy nation with the believing Gentiles who are now the people of God as one body of Christ:

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: (10) who in time past were no people, but now are the people of God: who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

For more unleavened truth on this subject please see this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Moby.

I'll say it again (since you moved to a new thread),

First, the word "salvation" is NOT about a person's justification! The word "salvation" comes from prophecies in the TANAKH (the OT) regarding the RESCUE of the nation of Israel. So, when Paul said, "salvation is come unto the Gentiles" and "all Israel shall be saved," know that Paul meant something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than people today THINK he meant!

The word in the Hebrew text is yimlaa'eeT stemming from ...

4422 maalaT (maw-lat'). A primitive root; properly, to be smooth, i.e. (by implication) to escape (as if by slipperiness); causatively, to release or rescue; specifically, to bring forth young, emit sparks
-- deliver (self), escape, lay, leap out, let alone, let go, preserve, save, X speedily, X surely.

This word was translated into the Greek of Romans 10:13 as "sootheesetai" stemming from ...

4982 soozoo (sode'-zo). From a primary soos (contraction for obsolete saoos, "safe"); to save, i.e. Deliver or protect (literally or figuratively) -- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

The noun forms are "salvation," "deliverance," and "a rescue." The verb forms are "to be saved," "to be delivered," and "to be rescued."

Here's an example:
 

Joel 2:28-3:2 (KJV)

28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land."

Verse 32 was quoted by Paul in Romans 10:

Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)

8 But what saith it? 

"The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart": (Deuteronomy 30:14)

that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, 

"Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed (disappointed)." (Isaiah 28:16)

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 

13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Joel 2:32)

 

Also, you need to understand that the Jews ("Yhudiym") are children of Judah ("Yhudah") but there were also 11 other tribes and Joseph ("Yosef") was divided into two tribes, Manasseh ("Manasheh") and Ephraim ("Efrayim"), Joseph's two sons. The term "Jews" does NOT refer to all of the children of Israel. Each of the twelve tribes (with the exception of the 13th tribe, Levi  or "Leviy") had a portion of the Land as its inheritance. The tribe of Benjamin ("Bin-Yamiyn") sided with Judah when Solomon's ("Shlomoh's") son, Rehoboam ("RchaV'aam"), split the Kingdom in his arrogance and stubborn unkindness to his people. "The love of money is the root of all evil."

The ten northern tribes of Israel ("Yisra'eel") remained "Israel" and the two southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin were simply called "Judah," and for many years after and through several dynasties in the north, they were two warring, neighboring kingdoms. The ten northern tribes were eventually taken captive by Shalmaneser ("Shalman'ecer") king of Assyria. They never returned as whole tribes out of captivity and their fate is currently unknown. The two southern tribes were eventually taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar ("Nvuwkhadne'tstsar") king of Babylon, but they DID return from captivity in the first year of Cyrus ("Kowresh"), king of Persia.

Since these returning captives had once been called "the kingdom of Judah," they returned to the land of Judah and re-established their nation, although they now had no king technically, even though Zerubbabel ("ZruwbaVel") was in the king's lineage. They were still technically under the kings of Medo-Persia, whose kingdom passed into the hands of Alexander the Great of Macedon and from there under the empire of Seleucus which eventually fell under the empire of Rome.

This short history lesson is to show that when Yeshua` said, "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Jews)," He may actually have been referring to the ten northern tribes of Israel, not to the Gentiles!

After all, Yeshua` also said,

Matthew 15:24 (KJV)

24 But he answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And, Paul's statement "all Israel shall be saved" is definitely referring to the ten northern tribes, as well!

Now, that's not to say that we who are Gentiles are not included; however, we are included under the Messiah's adoption and are thus adopted into the tribe of Judah! THAT'S where the Gentiles fit in!

However, when you say, "Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people," you ARE skating on the thin ice of replacement theology.

In Hebrew YESHUA means Salvation, thus in many places in the Old Testament where SALVATION is spoken of in the first person, it is basically just saying YESHUA/Salvation/Jesus.  Most people don't understand why Jesus isn't in the Old Testament, well, he is, he was the SALVATION (Yeshua) spoken of by many of the Patriarchs and Prophets. This is why the Angel told Mary/Joseph that his name would be Yeshua (Salvation). 

The 10 Northern tribes were never lost as per their seeds. They always had seed living in Judea until they were dispersed like Judah in 70 AD, they just became ONE STICK, as the Prophecy in Ezekiel 37 stated would happen.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 PM, Moby said:

Father clearly chooses who will be part of the elect as Jesus makes very clear here:

 

No he doesn't, that is against God's NATURE..........I really do not even get people who come with that.

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 PM, Moby said:

John 17:9 & 12  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine: (12)  While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The ones who are given him are THOSE THAT LIVE BY FAITH..........By their own choosing, something you seem to miss out on via its understanding. 

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 PM, Moby said:

Many are called such as Judas Iscariot but he was clearly not part of the elect(chosen):

Matthew 22:14  For many are called, but few chosen(elect).

Everyone is called, the reason few are CHOSEN is because they refuse to ACCEPT God by Faith. Its a REQUIREMENT. Abraham was justified because he BELIEVED God, its seems you just can't grasp that concept brother. It is a requirement and without that requirement you can't be CHOSEN. But its up to us whether we BELIEVE or not.

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 PM, Moby said:

Matthew 22:14  For many are called, but few chosen(elect).

Paul is simply proving what Jesus taught many times that there is an elect chosen by God from the foundation of the world:

And it escapes you that he means because they chose to not ACCEPT Jesus by FAITH as the reason they are not chosen. You actually think they are not CHOSEN because God just willy nilly decides whom will be saved and whom will not. That is not even a rational thought process brother.

On 9/12/2020 at 9:14 PM, Moby said:

Ephesians 1:3-4  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:  (4)  even as he(Father) chose(elect) us in him(Jesus) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

But there are a lot of false teachers who are more than willing to go beyond what is written as they are puffed up:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.

There are a lot of people who profess understanding but have very little, I am afraid.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Revelation Man

[JohnR7]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:30 AM, Moby said:

Our God and Father declared in Isaiah that only a remnant of physical Israel will be saved when He is about to finish His Word upon the earth:

A remnant will return to repopulate the land. God always uses a remnant  to repopulate the earth. The rest will stay scattered to the world.  It is very unusual that there are even any "Jewish" people left to return to Israel. They have maintained their identity for almost 2,000 years. 

 

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

But two chapters later our God and Father is declaring “all Israel” shall be saved:

God is not willing that any should perish. He has provided for ALL to be saved, but people still have choice to decide for themselves. We can choose life or death, blessing or curse, sickness or health. The choices in life are ours. We need to choose life so we can live. 

[luigi]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:30 AM, Moby said:

Our God and Father declared in Isaiah that only a remnant of physical Israel will be saved when He is about to finish His Word upon the earth:

Romans 9:27-28  And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:  (28)  for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

But two chapters later our God and Father is declaring “all Israel” shall be saved:

Romans 11:26  and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The only way for this to be true is if our God and Father declared from the beginning that the commonwealth of Israel will be made up of many Jews and Gentiles grafted into ONE olive tree through the “election of grace”.

Some description was added in parenthesizes within Romans chapter 11 to help demonstrate that the ONE olive tree is made made up of both Jew and Gentile believers who will be called “all Israel“:

Romans 11:1-32  I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For  I (Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.  (2)  God did not cast off his people(Jews) which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:  (3)  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.  (4)  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men(Jews), who have not bowed the knee to Baal.  (5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant(of Jews) according to the election of grace.  (6)  But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.  (7)  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he(Israel) obtained not; but the election(a chosen remnant of Jews) obtained it, and the rest(the majority of the Jews) were hardened:  (8)  according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day.  (9)  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them(the majority of the Jews):  (10)  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, And bow thou down their back always.  (11)  I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their(the majority of the Jews) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.  (12)  Now if their(the majority of the Jews) fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  (13)  But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as  I (Paul) am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;  (14)  if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them(a chosen remnant of Jews).  (15)  For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?  (16)  And if the firstfruit(Jesus) is holy, so is the lump(Israel): and if the root(Jesus) is holy, so are the branches(individual believing Jews).  (17)  But if some of the branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive(believing Gentiles), wast grafted in among them(believing Jews), and didst become partaker with them(believing Jews) of the root(Jesus) of the fatness of the olive tree(Israel);  (18)  glory not over the branches(believing Jews): but if thou(believing Gentiles) gloriest, it is not thou(believing Gentiles) that bearest the root(Jesus), but the root thee(believing Gentiles).  (19)  Thou wilt say then, branches(unbelieving Jews) were broken off, that  I  (believing Gentiles) might be grafted in.  (20)  Well; by their(unbelieving Jews) unbelief they were broken off, and thou(believing Gentiles) standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:  (21)  for if God spared not the natural branches(Jews), neither will he spare thee(Gentiles).  (22)  Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them(unbelieving Jews) that fell, severity; but toward thee(believing Gentiles), God’s goodness, if thou(believing Gentiles) continue in his goodness: otherwise thou(believing Gentiles that fall) also shalt be cut off.  (23)  And they also, if they(unbelieving Jews) continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them(believing Jews) in again.  (24)  For if thou(believing Gentiles) wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree(all Gentiles), and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree(Israel); how much more shall these(Jews), which are the natural branches(Jews), be grafted into their own olive tree(Israel)?  (25)  For I would not, brethren(believing Jews and believing Gentiles), have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel(the majority of the Jews), until the fulness of the Gentiles(all the believing Gentiles) be come in;  (26)  and so all Israel(all the believing Jews and believing Gentiles elected by grace from the foundation of the world) shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness(all the unbelieving Jews cut off their olive tree) from Jacob:  (27)  And this is my covenant unto them(Jews), When I shall take away their sins.  (28)  As touching the gospel, they(unbelieving Jews) are enemies for your(believing Gentiles) sake: but as touching the election, they(believing Jews) are beloved for the fathers’ sake.  (29)  For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.  (30)  For as ye(believing Gentiles) in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their(unbelieving Jews) disobedience,  (31)  even so have these(unbelieving Jews) also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you(believing Gentiles)  they(believing Jews) also may now obtain mercy. 

So the mystery is the commonwealth of Israel is made up of only those believing Jews and believing Gentiles who are not broken off of that ONE olive tree called “all Israel”!

Some try to accuse this inclusion of the Gentile church into the commonwealth of Israel as replacement theology but Paul made it very clear that God always intended on making both believing Jews and believing Gentiles one people:

Romans 9:22-26 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: (23) and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, (24) even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? (25) As he saith also in Hosea, I will call that my people, which was not my people; And her beloved, that was not beloved. (26) And it shall be, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.

The new covenant was made through Jesus’ blood and includes the salvation of souls from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation including physical Israel who all become one holy nation in Christ:

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, (10) and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Jesus declared that both the flock of believing physical Israel and the flock of believing Gentiles will become ONE flock with ONE shepherd:

John 10:16 And other sheep(Gentiles) I have, which are not of this fold(Jews): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

There is much more truth on this subject here:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

 

Yes, both Jew and Gentile believers are all Israel.

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Everyone is called, the reason few are CHOSEN is because the refuse to ACCEPT God by Faith.

Many are called and few are chosen has to do with Holiness and Sanctification. This has to do with our wedding garment being washed and cleansed in the Precious Blood of the Lamb.