Is abortion a free-trip to heaven?

[Alive]

Back on track, here. Can we agree that only Christ is the Way, Truth and Life?

Assuming we do and the baby born or unborn dies before 'choosing' Christ--how then is that individual 'saved' from what he or she was born into (the first Adam)--after death? As you said the sin of the father is not attributed to the child--how does that work?

[enoob57]

44 minutes ago, Alive said:

@enoob57 Do you believe in the Greek gods? Hades, in Greek mythology was the oldest son of two other mythological figures and the Greek god of the dead. I don't believe David went to Hades, because Hades is not real and certainly not a place. David went to Sheol--the grave.

[Duck]

It’s not looking great is it?

from a positive slant, I hope this thread dissuades anybody  from ever considering abortion.

“Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world” (Jerusalem Talmud; Sanhedrin 4:1 (22a))

Edited December 29, 2020 by Duck

[enoob57]

44 minutes ago, Alive said:

Back on track, here. Can we agree that only Christ is the Way, Truth and Life?

Assuming we do and the baby born or unborn dies before 'choosing' Christ--how then is that individual 'saved' from what he or she was born into (the first Adam)--after death? As you said the sin of the father is not attributed to the child--how does that work?

2 Kings 14:6

6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
KJV
 

Deut 24:16

16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin. 
NKJV
 

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

2 Kings 14:6

6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
KJV
 

Deut 24:16

16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin. 
NKJV
 

OK--I get that you are showing the specific sins of one is not counted on the head of another. This is not the salient issue regarding the question of babies--born or not.

Do you believe that you inherited Adam's sinful nature or ---do you  think that you somehow acquired that sinful nature afterwards at some time in your life?

I ask again:

Assuming we do and the baby born or unborn dies before 'choosing' Christ--how then is that individual 'saved' from what he or she was born into (the first Adam)--after death?

You say we need to choose Christ. Can that baby then choose Christ after death?

How does this work?

Do you see the problem here that has to be resolved?

[enoob57]

26 minutes ago, Alive said:

OK--I get that you are showing the specific sins of one is not counted on the head of another. This is not the salient issue regarding the question of babies--born or not.

Do you believe that you inherited Adam's sinful nature or ---do you  think that you somehow acquired that sinful nature afterwards at some time in your life?

I ask again:

Assuming we do and the baby born or unborn dies before 'choosing' Christ--how then is that individual 'saved' from what he or she was born into (the first Adam)--after death?

You say we need to choose Christ. Can that baby then choose Christ after death?

How does this work?

Do you see the problem here that has to be resolved?

no I already told you of David and his son from sin and David expected to be with him... that's it... that's why I believe in the age of accountability and that's why I disagree with  calvinism ... it just doesn't fit into Scripture... and you have Christ's statement here that furthers the point of my contention
Matt 18:8

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV[
 

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

no I already told you of David and his son from sin and David expected to be with him... that's it... that's why I believe in the age of accountability and that's why I disagree with  calvinism ... it just doesn't fit into Scripture... and you have Christ's statement here that furthers the point of my contention
Matt 18:8

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV[
 

I see--then we will agree to disagree about this.

But for clarity sake--do you believe that the aborted baby or a baby before reaching an age, will be a born from above "In Christ" son of God and a member of His Body? And that this will take place after death or before death? Which?

[enoob57]

51 minutes ago, Alive said:

I see--then we will agree to disagree about this.

But for clarity sake--do you believe that the aborted baby or a baby before reaching an age, will be a born from above "In Christ" son of God and a member of His Body? And that this will take place after death or before death? Which?

Brother I just don't assume ... if I have a Scriptural basis for my belief I will give it if not I will not assume upon God's Word... there are so many places where I wait to be enlarged to know more but I use the patience God gives me for that time

[enoob57]

38 minutes ago, Josheb said:

In David's day the dead went to Sheol, the grave, where the dead new nothing. It was not until later (2 Sam. 7) that God revealed the resurrection to him. God might have disclosed this previously but I'm not immediately recalling any such occasion. 

So we see the mechanics are spelled out. We just have to read all of scripture. 

We know the gospel was preached to Abraham and David would have been familiar with that covenant and all its promises, even if he didn't fully understand the Christological or Messianic significances. We know too that all the law and the prophets testify to Christ, who was foreknown before the creation of the world. SO we know the truth was there in veiled form. Whether David knew it or not might be discernable but the salient points are as I have stated: newborns are not born with a knowledge of Christ and given the mark of sin all bear even right out of the womb we have the horrible reality that were it not for God's grace no one - not even fetuses and newborns are saved.

 This is yours and you own it... I disagree and I own that....

[CaptWalker]

Well in my own opinion about David, simply the way in which he wrote about the Lord God Almighty on so many occassions in Psalms makes it very apparent that he fully expected to be with Him after he died, such as "I will dwell in the house of the Lord FOREVER." {Psalm-23:6}

As far as murder goes, the word "kill" in the 10 commandments is translated as "murder,slay" and is committed as a premeditated act. Now if you want to accuse abortion doctors of murder then fine, but i can't see how you could say the same about the mother. Of course she must repent but it's not anything that she should constantly grieve over and feel guilty about the rest of her life. That would almost be like telling Christ thanks for the greatest sacrifice for Human kind ever made...but just don't think it was enough to forgive my own sins...?? 

Edited December 30, 2020 by CaptWalker