douge Posted September 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 3:49 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said: Paul is not your Messiah. Paul delivered the commandments of Christ 1 Corinthians 14:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted September 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 5 hours ago, David1701 said: Look at the context. Luke 17:20,21 (WEB) 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn’t come with observation; 21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.” To whom is Jesus speaking here? He is speaking to Pharisees, who expected the Kingdom of God to be the Messiah driving out the Romans and re-establishing Israel (amongst other things). Jesus corrects their misunderstanding, by making it clear that the Kingdom of God is not about that kind of thing, but it is within you (that's a general "you", not meaning that the Kingdom of God was within those Pharisees!). Luke 17:22-24 (WEB) 22 He said to the disciples, “The days will come, when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 They will tell you, ‘Look, here!’ or ‘Look, there!’ Don’t go away, nor follow after them, 24 for as the lightning, when it flashes out of the one part under the sky, shines to the other part under the sky; so will the Son of Man be in his day. This is a change of audience (the disciples) and a change of subject. He is no longer correcting Pharisees about the nature of the Kingdom of God, but has switched to the disciples' future desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man (i.e. for him to be physically present with them). He tells them that they will not "see" (a metaphorical use of "see") those days, at that time, but tells them what his day will be like, when he returns. Some basics of biblical interpretation: 1) Always look at a verse in its context 2) Who is the audience 3) Who is speaking 4) What is the subject 5) What are the grammatical and historical features, relevant to this subject 6) Pay attention to changes of audience and/or subject etc. Luke 17:20 The Pharisees demanded an answer as to when the kingdom would come Jesus said it would not come with observation but with suddenness and that it would be unexpected as seen in Luke 17:30 17:21 the kingdom is within you just as he said in Luke 10:9-11 where he said the kingdom was near Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, douge said: Paul delivered the commandments of Christ 1 Corinthians 14:37 Your severely contradicting yourself. You say Paul is teaching the commandments of Messiah yet at the same time you say Paul is teaching a different Gospel than what Christ and the Apostles taught? How can Paul be teaching the commandments of Christ yet be preaching a different gospel than what Jesus and all the other Apostles taught???? The bible teaches that we are to let truth be established by the mouth of two or more witnesses. Paul can not preach a new gospel/doctrine that is not in agreement with what Jesus or his Apostles taught. He can not be a witness to his own gospel/doctrine. Edited September 24, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.46 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2020 18 hours ago, douge said: Luke 17:20 The Pharisees demanded an answer as to when the kingdom would come Jesus said it would not come with observation but with suddenness and that it would be unexpected as seen in Luke 17:30 17:21 the kingdom is within you just as he said in Luke 10:9-11 where he said the kingdom was near Luke 17:20,21 (WEB) 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn’t come with observation; 21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.” Nope, that's not what it says. Where does it say "suddenness"? It doesn't. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God does not come with OBSERVATION. You cannot see it, because it is within you. Since when did "observation" mean "suddenness"? Only on planet Douge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: Your severely contradicting yourself. You say Paul is teaching the commandments of Messiah yet at the same time you say Paul is teaching a different Gospel than what Christ and the Apostles taught? How can Paul be teaching the commandments of Christ yet be preaching a different gospel than what Jesus and all the other Apostles taught???? The bible teaches that we are to let truth be established by the mouth of two or more witnesses. Paul can not preach a new gospel/doctrine that is not in agreement with what Jesus or his Apostles taught. He can not be a witness to his own gospel/doctrine. One of the commandments would be to believe the gospel revealed to Paul Romans 16:26 Paul was given a dispensation in which we have the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification for both Jew and Gentile. Paul taught Jesus is Son of God as did the apostles. The apostles were given the gospel of the kingdom, but that was postponed until the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, David1701 said: Luke 17:20,21 (WEB) 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn’t come with observation; 21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.” Nope, that's not what it says. Where does it say "suddenness"? It doesn't. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God does not come with OBSERVATION. You cannot see it, because it is within you. Since when did "observation" mean "suddenness"? Only on planet Douge! The kingdom would come suddenly, unexpectedly, not by them looking for it as seen by Luke 17:26-30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,609 Content Per Day: 3.90 Reputation: 7,810 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2020 The point seems to be missed that God's ideas from the very beginnings of humanity have not changed. He wants His human family alongside his Spiritual family to be partakers in the running of His Cosmos. Read the whole of scriptures - ALL OF IT. The the picture is quite clear throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, douge said: One of the commandments would be to believe the gospel revealed to Paul Romans 16:26 Paul was given a dispensation in which we have the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification for both Jew and Gentile. Paul taught Jesus is Son of God as did the apostles. The apostles were given the gospel of the kingdom, but that was postponed until the tribulation. Paul also taught the Kingdom of God: For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. - Rom 14:17 ESV For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. - 1Co 4:20 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, - 1Co 6:9 ESV I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. - 1Co 15:50 ESV envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. - Gal 5:21 ESV This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-- - 2Th 1:5 ESV For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. - Eph 5:5 ESV Edited September 24, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: Paul also taught the Kingdom of God: For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. - Rom 14:17 ESV For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. - 1Co 4:20 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, - 1Co 6:9 ESV I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. - 1Co 15:50 ESV envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. - Gal 5:21 ESV This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-- - 2Th 1:5 ESV For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. - Eph 5:5 ESV Yes, the heavenly kingdom. The kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. Peter and the twelve preached the earthly kingdom to Israel. All in heaven and earth will be gathered together Ephesians 1:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted September 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, douge said: Yes, the heavenly kingdom. The kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. Peter and the twelve preached the earthly kingdom to Israel. All in heaven and earth will be gathered together Ephesians 1:10 You blinded by dispensationalism that was birthed out of anti-Semitism against Jews. God does not have two separate people God has one body, one people, one church which includes both Jew and Gentile. Gentiles are grafted into Israel and there is only one Kingdom for God's people. There is no Kingdom of Israel and separate Kingdom for believing Gentiles. What your teaching is not scriptural and false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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