There be GIANTS

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

So who are the "Nephilim" of today?

I take the verse to mean, also after the deluge; with the appearance of the Rephaim, Zuzlm, Emim, Horim, Avim, and Anakim showing up during Israel's 400 year bondage in Egypt. 

Could they be here today? I don't know but; there seems to be some suspicious coverups possibly, that military veterans have come forth and disclosed about an incident in Afghanistan. I won't go into it, L.A. Marzulli and Thomas Horn have a ton of videos and programs on it. 

In addition, it's an open secret governments want to use DNA splicing and altering to produce 'super soldier's' and a space force for war; along with astronauts able to withstand the radiation and vigor's of outer space. We know they're tinkering with human / animal hybrids. The preceding is incontrovertible facts. The questions becomes; how far along are these rogue nations and global DARPA programs, and will we see these hybrids before long? 

[Marathoner]

On 10/11/2020 at 3:37 PM, Dennis1209 said:

I take the verse to mean, also after the deluge; with the appearance of the Rephaim, Zuzlm, Emim, Horim, Avim, and Anakim showing up during Israel's 400 year bondage in Egypt. 

Indeed. The Nephilim reappeared after the flood, establishing themselves in the world known to the Hebrew authors of scripture. I share your understanding of that passage, my friend. What do the Nephilim represent in the sight of Almighty God?

A detestable abomination, the progeny of angels (often referred to as "stars" in scripture) who left their first estate expounded upon in the Book of Enoch and referred to in Genesis and elsewhere in the canon of our day. We understand Israel of old as a type of the eternal Israel of God, His holy nation purchased from the foundation of the world just as the Lamb Himself was slain from the foundation of the world. The names of His holy nation are written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8). 

As Israel of old waged war against the Nephilim, so we wage war against powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness, those angels whom Satan cast down to the earth.

Because there is no place for the Nephilim in God's creation their spirits wander the earth after the destruction of their fleshly bodies, seeking vessels to inhabit. These are referred to as evil spirits... unclean spirits... or demons/devils to the Greeks and Hellenized Jews of the latter second temple period. These are reserved for everlasting fire on the day of the Lord, referenced in the following passage of scripture:

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:28-32 KJV)

Edited October 12, 2020 by Marathoner
typos

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Indeed. The Nephilim reappeared after the flood, establishing themselves in the world known to the Hebrew authors of scripture. I share your understanding of that passage, my friend. What do the Nephilim represent in the sight of Almighty God?

A detestable abomination, the progeny of angels (often referred to as "stars" in scripture) who left their first estate expounded upon in the Book of Enoch and referred to in Genesis and elsewhere in the canon of our day. We understand Israel of old as a type of the eternal Israel of God, His holy nation purchased from the foundation of the world just as the Lamb Himself was slain from the foundation of the world. The names of His holy nation are written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8). 

As Israel of old waged war against the Nephilim, so we wage war against powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness, those angels whom Satan cast down to the earth.

Because there is no place for the Nephilim in God's creation their spirits wander the earth after the destruction of their fleshly bodies, seeking vessels to inhabit. These are referred to as evil spirits... unclean spirits... or demons/devils to the Greeks and Hellenized Jews of the latter second temple period. These are reserved for everlasting fire on the day of the Lord, referenced in the following passage of scripture:

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:28-32 KJV)

Someone's reading their Bible and knows what they're talking about 

Another interesting tidbit I didn't mention [among many], is running a Bible search for demon's, devils, possessed, unclean spirits and the like. There's no mention of them prior to Noah's flood; they suddenly appear out of nowhere after the deluge. That silence speaks volumes to reasoning.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Someone's reading their Bible and knows what they're talking about 

Another interesting tidbit I didn't mention [among many], is running a Bible search for demon's, devils, possessed, unclean spirits and the like. There's no mention of them prior to Noah's flood; they suddenly appear out of nowhere after the deluge. That silence speaks volumes to reasoning.

Genesis 6:4 - The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. [NASB]

From this passage it is clear the Nephilim survived the Flood, so there must be something special about them.  A search of the scriptures confirms this.  Many people ignore this passage because it doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.  They cannot grasp what they cannot see.

[Marathoner]

Iron sharpens iron, my friends. Each one of us, who knows only in part, combine in a Body fitly clad and furnished for every good work which God ordained before the foundation of the world.  

I agree with your observation, @Saved.One.by.Grace. We know from Numbers and especially the book of Joshua --- one of the more spiritually relevant books of the Law and Prophets --- that the Nephilim survived the flood to stain the earth with their wickedness and horrific appetites once more. These abominations inhabited the land of promise and so Joshua, exhorted by our Lord to be courageous and strong, was sent by the Holy One to exterminate their seed and obliterate all traces of their manifold sins from the land of Israel's inheritance.

Nothing was to be spared nor retained as spoils and so it was forbidden to claim even their cattle in victory. Those who disobeyed were dealt with swiftly by the Lord. This is a type, a foreshadowing of the battle we face during these times of the end after the Son of God rose from the dead and ascended to heaven to sit with our Father upon His throne. Israel of old faced daunting foes of the flesh who were giants among men but we don't war against enemies of flesh and blood in the present age:

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:11-12)

We face powers like the prince of the kingdom of Persia who delayed an angel of God for 21 days (Daniel 10:12-13). These principalities, whom Satan gathered to himself from the stars of heaven, were cast down to the earth so they might weaken the nations of men as depicted in the twelfth chapter of the book of Revelation (verse 4). Isaiah 14 speaks of this in greater detail ("he who weakens the nations").  

As the Nephilim were giants among men so these principalities are mighty among the angels. As the Lord commanded Joshua to be courageous so He comforts us, leaving us with His peace and pouring His Spirit upon us all so we might face the mightiest adversaries of them all: the devil and his angels. 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Ham did something wrong, looked on his father's nakedness...

His two brothers, to avoid that wrong, walked backwards and didn't look at their father's nakedness, and covered him up.

I question the "euphemism" and wonder why people don't just look at what the Bible says.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Gen 9:23

And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness

 

Lev 18:8

The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Lev 20:11

And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

Neither Ham nor his father's wife was "put to death" for this act

 

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Noah was drunk - and when he woke from his wine, Noah "knew what his younger son had done unto him".

Was it as bad as sleeping with Noah's wife? Really?

Ham TELLS HIS BROTHERS about his father's nakedness, and Shem and Japheth fix things - they walk in - don't look - and cover Noah.

I don't understand everything, I just do not think its kosher to expand "saw his father's nakedness" to make it mean "slept with his father's wife" when it doesn't say that.

Leviticus says of the son who sleeps with his father's wife that they both be put to death. That did not happen to Ham or Noah's wife, right?

I think the "euphemism" is making too much out of Leviticus and the Genesis account sharing an exact phrase. Had the two things really been the same thing - it would have meant that Ham had done something worthy of being killed, and he says to his brothers "Our father is naked in his tent" and they take action to fix things. Putting a blanket over Noah without looking at him seems to fix things, Ham and Noah's wife are not killed because of what happened.

It seems weird to take things out on Canaan - Ham gets blamed a Noah is embarrassed because he got drunk and passed out nekkid and Ham saw him, so he curses Ham's son Canaan - I mean the whole thing is bizarre, but far short of Ham sleeping with Noah's wife and requiring two deaths.

Ham gets blamed for a lot of things - some AM Radio preacher (early in the morning, when you can hear ANYTHING) said the appearance of Giants later on was because Ham's wife had Nephilim DNA in her!

Eight people survive the flood, but somehow Ham's wife has Giant DNA in her makeup - and here come da Giants - a whole HANDFUL of GOLIATHS in David's time, teenager David and his slingshot kill the first Goliath, someone in David's army kills another, David in his old age fights another GOLIATH - gets too tired - and lets his SECOND polish off that Goliath...

The thread is trying to make sense of why there are later Nephilim.

Giant DNA in SOMEONE is a possible rational explanation - but why does Ham - Ham's wife - and Canaan get all the blame.

The Sethite story doesn't explain GIANTS - its just popular with those who think demons didn't mate with human women - that "sons of God" mean Seth's line, well - that doesn't explain the giantism...

Daughters of men are human women - sons of Seth are human men - what cause of Giants is in any of that?

 

[Dennis1209]

16 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Genesis 6:4 - The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. [NASB]

From this passage it is clear the Nephilim survived the Flood, so there must be something special about them.  A search of the scriptures confirms this.  Many people ignore this passage because it doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.  They cannot grasp what they cannot see.

Again in my opinion as always. The Nephilim were the offspring of spiritual beings and women, the high ranking spiritual beings leaving their 1st estate. The [giants] Nephilim were a mixture of those angelic beings and flesh, they had bodies and advanced intelligence from their fathers. Loves to have me some of those grapes the size of basketballs 

I suspect all of them were destroyed in the deluge. Which reminds me, why would the Lord decide to destroy all the animals on the planet that had the 'breath of life'? But anyway; it's thought by many that low ranking demons are the evil angelic 'spirits' of the bodily perished Nephilim [giants - fallen ones]. It's apparent these unclean spirits seek a warm body like they had to enter and destroy. And to satisfy the cravings and lusts of the flesh they once had.

Naturally I can't prove it, and it's only an educated opinion but; [and after that] I don't think there was a second incursion of the same event. I suspect the giants prior to the deluge were much bigger and stronger than the ones that appeared after Noah's flood; based on archaeological evidence, Mesopotamian and Greek literature and mythologies based on kernels of truth, extra biblical and historic writings, etc. 

Much too long to explain in detail but; I think this second incursion has much to do with the line of Ham, and the curse Noah put on Canaan, Ham's son. The Bible says, "Noah was perfect in his generation", we know that doesn't mean without sin or fault. Perfect in this sense based on the language and context, probably means his DNA was not genetically contaminated and corrupted from what was occurring. The Bible is silent about his daughter-in-laws; were they pure 100% human, especially Ham's wife. Why was Canaan cursed and not Ham, what did Canaan do? It's an interesting study that leads to even more speculation.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Dennis1209

[Guest]

Dr. Michael Heiser references the only text, outside of Genesis 6, here Nephilim are mentioned which is Numbers 13:32–33 (which he quotes from the ESV thusly):

“So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, ‘The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height. And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.’”

He refers to the connection of “Israel’s survival as the people of Yahweh with the defeat of the Nephilim descendants.” But “Nephilim descendants” begs the next question Heiser asks and answers which is “How did the Nephilim survive the flood?”

He asserts:
“Genesis 6:4 pointedly informs readers that the Nephilim were on earth before the flood ‘and also afterward.’ The phrase looks forward to Numbers 13:33, which says with equal clarity that the oversized descendants of Anak ‘came from the Nephilim.’ The sons of Anak, the Anakim, were one of the giant clans described in the conquest narratives (e.g., Deut. 2:10–11, 21; Josh. 11:21–22; 14:12, 15).”

Source: Dr. Michael Heiser

I haven't read all of Dr. Heiser's books.  This website is the first time I found out that Heiser believed Noah's Flood was regional, not global.  After reading a book by David Snoke, A Biblical Case for an Old Earth, an excellent book, highly recommended.  Noah's Flood is not the focus of the book, but he too believes Noah's Flood was regional. 

We know from reading the book of Genesis and Numbers that the Nephilim could die.  If the flood didn't kill them, how could they have descendants?  When they died, where did their spirits go?  They did not go to where the angels of disobedience went or God would have told us.  (2 Peter 2:4-11)  So it makes sense that their spirits survive as demons.