What is the sin unto death?

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Let us imagine for a moment a young new believer joining a church in which he is taught that those things are demonic or whatever and that individual repeats what he was taught. Some time later he joins a different group and is told when relating his experience, that he has blasphemed the Holy Spirit,

That individual could be devastated and greatly harmed.

We need to be wise in what we say. I would never under any circumstances tell someone that---ever. And I have seen and heard a great many things in my life.

 

Not sure I am all on board with that analogy. As each person is responsible for their relationship with God, and should not be moved by what "people" say, but rather what God says.

That being said, I agree with the IDEA that none of us should go around labeling other Christians as blasphemers or devil worshippers,  that is WAY above our paygrade.

 

[Marathoner]

57 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Yes it performances like this that obscure the real work of the Holy Spirit in Christian life today.

Falling down and other weird behaviours are not recorded in the NT.

When believers were baptised in the Holy Spirit they spoke in tongues and went on to enjoy miracles and healings from God by his Spirit. And people were transformed in their hearts and minds and learned of righteousness, love unto others, and good works pleasing to God.

Not all Pentecostal churches are out of order; and my church would not describe ourselves as charismatic. 

We operate a prayer line (not just manned by pastors) and people come forward for prayer. There are simply prayers given in English and/or in tongues. No one falls down and certainly no one is slain in the Spirit. People just return to their seats. Some are healed instantly and some are not. 

Some twenty years ago my wife was in palliative care, on her death bed. On Saturday my sons and I visited her to say our goodbyes. The next day we went to our Pentecostal worship meeting and went out to the prayer line to pray for Angela. On the Monday Angela came home. I can still remember my mouth falling open and gaping as I watched her walk across the lawn towards the front door. 

I know, brother. I shared my experience with a small fellowship elsewhere on the forum. I will never forget these precious holy ones of the Lord! They were jubilant and earnest in their love of Christ and even though no one knew me, there were some who were moved by the Lord to minister to me. What was their prayer?

That the Lord would open the way and bless me on my way to where He wanted me to go. The Spirit was among them.  

Edited February 20, 2021 by Marathoner

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Not sure I am all on board with that analogy. As each person is responsible for their relationship with God, and should not be moved by what "people" say, but rather what God says.

That being said, I agree with the IDEA that none of us should go around labeling other Christians as blasphemers or devil worshippers,  that is WAY above our paygrade.

 

Unfortunately most people are moved by what people say and most especially those in authority. What I have described is not an analogy, but probable outcome.

God is responsible---yes and so are we, for each other. We play a part in the lives and welfare of every brother and sister we encounter, in person or online. I am not accusing you or anyone of anything, but rather using this opportunity to teach--an object lesson.

We ought to be constrained by the Love of Christ...

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Unfortunately most people are moved by what people say and most especially those in authority. What I have described is not an analogy, but probable outcome.

God is responsible---yes and so are we, for each other. We play a part in the lives and welfare of every brother and sister we encounter, in person or online. I am not accusing you or anyone of anything, but rather using this opportunity to teach--an object lesson.

We ought to be constrained by the Love of Christ...

I understand and agree with your point, to a point. And that's just because I am spun a little different than you. To me, presenting the truth is more important that saving feelings. Because only the truth, can make a difference. Comforting someone on the way to destruction does little good.

If I happen to step on some toes, we can pray for healing later

Some are called to encourage, some are called to exhort, some are called to give mercy and some are called to proclaim the truth, but all must be done in love and gentleness

But again, for the most part I agree with you, with the one proviso that truth must be preeminent. 

[Hopefully]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

After the Spirit of God came to me as a young man,

Thank you very much for sharing that with me. It is very helpful to my thought.

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

I understand and agree with your point, to a point. And that's just because I am spun a little different than you. To me, presenting the truth is more important that saving feelings. Because only the truth, can make a difference. Comforting someone on the way to destruction does little good.

If I happen to step on some toes, we can pray for healing later

Some are called to encourage, some are called to exhort, some are called to give mercy and some are called to proclaim the truth, but all must be done in love and gentleness

But again, for the most part I agree with you, with the one proviso that truth must be preeminent. 

I am not talking about hurt feelings or stepping toes, brother. I am talking about ruining a life and those that harm those precious ones of God, will also pay a price in this life and next. Whether you do it in the name of truth or not.

No--telling the truth is not so noble a thing. Love and discernment are what is required.

Not--I don't care if I harm you--its all good because I am telling the truth.

Baloney! I have seen many harmed badly by someone on a mission to "tell the truth".

Again--this is not personal, but rather a lesson for any reading and as a testimony to the Lord, who is watching.

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

I am not talking about hurt feelings or stepping toes, brother. I am talking about ruining a life and those that harm those precious ones of God, will also pay a price in this life and next. Whether you do it in the name of truth or not.

No--telling the truth is not so noble a thing. Love and discernment are what is required.

Not--I don't care if I harm you--its all good because I am telling the truth.

Baloney! I have seen many harmed badly by someone on a mission to "tell the truth".

Again--this is not personal, but rather a lesson for any reading and as a testimony to the Lord, who is watching.

If it is THE TRUTH and it hurts. Who then is to blame? If you want to help a person you do not shield them from the hard truth, you help them navigate through it. In love

If you are just striking out without love, of course you are not serving God or his purpose

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Riverwalker said:

If it is THE TRUTH and it hurts. Who then is to blame? If you want to help a person you do not shield them from the hard truth, you help them navigate through it. In love

If you are just striking out without love, of course you are not serving God or his purpose

We are discussing telling someone they have blasphemed, not whether or not they should wear revealing clothing or talk in a lewd manner or some other behavioral dynamic.

[Marathoner]

I'm in agreement with @Alive. I will clarify that when I related my experience with that particular church in this topic, it wasn't couched in a spirit of condemnation nor accusation. I hope that pointing out my naivete at the time might shed light on this: I honestly had no inkling as to what was going on. I was merely writing from my experience of things at the time.  

Many believed, this is abundantly clear. Understanding where I'm coming from would help immensely, bearing in mind I had no experience with Christianity when I was called forth by the Lord. That is definitely a challenge in a format such as this because I don't expect for my brothers and sisters to peruse every post I have made on Worthy. 

Are some false? Certainly, but I approve of what our brother Alive has shared because his judgment is tempered with mercy and love. If we don't have love, then we have nothing.   

[Riverwalker]

 

1 Cor 14:

14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.