The Make Up of Man (slight return)

[Butch5]

16 hours ago, JohnD said:

Matthew 10:28 (NIV84)
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Bible makes the distinction between body and soul.

Interesting that the passage in the omission of the spirit being destroyed in hell. Along with passage Luke 9:43-48 proves hell / the lake of fire are 

places of eternal punishment for the spirits of condemned humanity as well as the devil and his angels.

 

I would have to disagree John. Gen 2:7 shows us that the combination of the body and breath "became" a living soul. The soul is not a third element, it's a combination of the two elements. I also have to disagree with the idea of eternal torment of men. That's not taught in Scripture. The "spirit" in man is something out of God Himself, that's why Jesus doesn't mention it in Matthew 10:28. God's spirit or breath is what gives man life. God isn't going to destroy His own spirit or breath. Also, there is no place in the Scriptures called hell. That is an English word that carries a lot of baggage. The Scriptures speak of Sheol or Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

Genesis 2:7 (AV)
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

If that were all that was written in scripture about the subject. Then every time the word soul (nephesh / psuche).

Shalom, JohnD.

Sorry, bro', but your last two "sentences" were a little unclear.

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

For example:

Revelation 18:13 (AV)
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

But the Greek text actually reads "bodies and souls":

Interesting how the often disparaged NIV is one of the few that gets the verse right:

Revelation 18:13 (NIV84)
13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

Well, the first thing one should know is that there are more than one take on this verse:

This one verse is taken from a prophecy that remains to be fulfilled in our future.

Revelation 18:1-20 (NIV)

1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:

“ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’

She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
3 For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

4 Then I heard another voice from heaven (from the sky) say:

“ ‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
7 Give her as much torment and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,

‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;
I will never mourn.’

8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

9 “When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10 Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:

“ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
you mighty city of Babylon!
In one hour your doom has come!’

11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves.

14“They will say,

‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your luxury and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’ 

15 The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16 and cry out:

“ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’

“Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim,

‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’ 

19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:

“ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

(Perhaps, I have access to an older or newer NIV version.)

It's obvious to me that this verse is talking about slavery as part of the things that were considered trade at this point in the future. If this is in OUR future, then we must look at the things that have been accomplished during our medical boom in the growth of information within the 20th and 21st centuries. "Bodies [of men]" might be considered "cadavers" that one is willing to sell and others willing to buy for their viable, transplantable parts. "Souls of men" or "human air-breathers" might be a WIDE variety of human trafficking, occurring at that time in human future history.

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

Not to worry, there are examples in the AV one being:

Isaiah 10:18 (AV)
18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.

So what is it then?

Body-soul (one and the same)?

Or body and soul (two components)?

As in all matters of accurate biblical understanding, CONTEXT determines what a passage means! The prophet Yesha`yahuw recorded God's Word as ...

Isaiah 10:12-20 (NIV)

12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say,

“I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. 13 For he says:

“ ‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
I removed the boundaries of nations,
I plundered their treasures;
like a mighty one I subdued their kings.
14 As one reaches into a nest,
so my hand reached for the wealth of the nations;
as people gather abandoned eggs,
so I gathered all the countries;
not one flapped a wing,
or opened its mouth to chirp.’ ”

15 Does the ax raise itself above the person who swings it,
or the saw boast against the one who uses it?
As if a rod were to wield the person who lifts it up,
or a club brandish the one who is not wood!

16 Therefore, the Lord, the Lord Almighty,
will send a wasting disease upon his sturdy warriors;
under his pomp a fire will be kindled
like a blazing flame.
17 The Light of Israel will become a fire,
their Holy One a flame;
in a single day it will burn and consume
his thorns and his briers.
18 The splendor of his forests and fertile fields
it will completely destroy,
as when a sick person wastes away.
19 And the remaining trees of his forests will be so few
that a child could write them down.
20 In that day the remnant of Israel,
the survivors of Jacob,
will no longer rely on him
who struck them down
but will truly rely on the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel.

This shows God's promise with retribution against Assyria for the joy they took in their part of punishing Israel. Again, I think we may be using different versions of NIV, but the verse is speaking of The Light BLAZING FLAME of Israel completely destroying the splendor of Assyria's forests and its fertile fields, like killing an air-breathing person first and then consuming the body after the person's death!

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

Hebrews 4:12 (NIV84)
12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

εἰσελθεῖν εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν, ἵνα μὴ ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ τις ὑποδείγματι πέσῃ τῆς ἀπειθείας. 12 Ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ἐνεργὴς καὶ τομώτερος ὑπὲρ πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον καὶ διϊκνούμενος ἄχρι μερισμοῦ ψυχῆς καὶ πνεύματος, ἁρμῶν τε καὶ μυελῶν, καὶ κριτικὸς ἐνθυμήσεων καὶ ἐννοιῶν καρδίας· 13 καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν κτίσις ἀφανὴς ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ, πάντα δὲ γυμνὰ καὶ τετραχηλισμένα τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς αὐτοῦ, πρὸς ὃν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος.
 

Another one the NIV got right. There is no and between spirit and joints.  Therefore the spirit and the soul are not one and the same. And the soul and the body are not one and the same. Factoring in the Genesis 2:7 text establishes a link with the body and the breath of life (the spirit) that gives the body life / autonomy. 

The argument "we are the soul" is as applicable as "we are the body" and "we are the spirit."

The Bible reveals the make up of man is threefold body / soul / spirit.

 

Again, TIMING is the key. What does a highly sharpened, double-edged sword do? It SLICES! It KILLS! It separates an air-breathing person from his breath! It slices through bone cutting through joints and revealing the marrow in the bones! And, the Word of God, what God SAYS, GOES! It's JUST as powerful and keen! It can separate the thoughts and even the attitudes of the core of a person's being!

[Speks]

Strictly speaking, the genuine believer consists of 4 elements: body, soul, spirit and the Person of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, as the living and powerful Word (Hebrews 4:12), works through our spirits to judge and expose the carnal ways of the soul (self). 

Mere flesh can accomplish nothing for Christ. Worse still, those who are dominated by self can hamper Christ's work, cause disharmony, distort pure teaching, get bound up in irrelevancies, and stunt their spiritual growth.