why do Islamists hate the west?

[ted]

Oh, one more thing:

All of this, of course, is dependent on God's divine providence. He can, the minute he so chooses to do so, wipe all of this out with a stroke of His finger.

Even so, come Lord!

t.

[Guest shiloh357]

Fenwar, 

Perhaps you are wrong about most of the people here when it comes to their (our?) zeal in eliminating Muslims?

The point is, no one here wants to eliminate anyone, Muslim or not. It's not a matter of wanting to destroy them. My point is, and has been since the day I joined the Army back in '87, that I will stand ready to defend this nation, and it's allies, against all forms of attack, where ever that may take me. Back in the day, that meant the possibility of taking on the Soviet Union. Later, that meant my active participation in Honduras and Panama, and later still, and much closer to the present, it meant my participation in Afghanistan.

 

There are three basic trains of thought around here, two of which are completely wrong:

1. We must destroy all Muslims to win the war on terror.

2. We must pull all US troops out of every Muslim country, and they will leave us alone.

3. We must continue to be on the offensive in places we think may be hot beds of terrorism, so that we do not have to revert to the defensive posture when confronting this "new" enemy.

Clearly, the "enemy" is not the Muslim faith and it's followers. The enemy, in truth, are the leaders of the Muslim faith that use their religion as an excuse to attack us, and gain followers for the cause. These are the ones that must be stopped. Now, the question lingers: is it better to meet them on their ground, or ours?

Let's do a quick study of the above three trains of thought.

1. Those who believe that we must destroy all Muslims to win the war, obviously are ignorant of the war itself. Muslims, like any other group of people, are people. Human beings.

They have families, jobs, farms, industries, brothers, mothers, illnesses, happiness, etc..., in other words, they have just as much of a right to basic human life and dignity as anyone else. Literally millions of them live in peace with their neighbors with no conflict whatsoever. Cool! We may understand their culture very well, but that doesn't mean that they are worthy of killing, simply because they are Muslims. To think like that would be bigoted, ignorant, and inexcusable.

They are not the enemy we face.

Please read on.....

2. Ah, the magic "pull-out". Now there's an option that never really works, no matter how we apply it, does it? To understand the complexity of such an option, we must never read too much into it. We try to think that it is a simple plan: leave them alone, and they will leave us alone, right?

Wrong.

They (the true enemy, which we will define shortly) will never leave us alone, for one simple reason: WE SUPPORT ISRAEL!

Well, at least we used to anyway. I'm not so sure that Israel can count on us 100% of the time, these days, but that's another matter.

We will be forever hunted by the enemy because we have supported Israel's right to exist from the beginning. That is why they hate us. You can forget all of these other trumped up charges made against us by many in the news. They hate us because we support Israel, plain and simple. There was no fight between us and them before 1947 or so, was there? One reason I think it took them so long to get us before recent years was because they couldn't. They didn't have the will just 30 years or so to attack us, nor the means to do it. They took their pot-shots, but nothing on a scale of 9/11.

Their true hate is Israel. That is what all of this is about. Not oil (although it is a big by-line to the story), not Haliburton (ignore the idiotic stories that we create war to fund them, if you check it out, you will see that Haliburton, and it's company Kellogg, Brown, and Root are one of the only companies in the world that could provide the amount of support that is does on a daily basis. It's just that simple. Think of the support it provides. Everything from food, power and latrines, the list goes on for days. But, again, that's another topic for another thread.), nor anything else.

In these terms, we have forever doomed ourselves by supporting Israel's right to exist, in their eyes. I'm ok with that. I'd rather have Israel on my side than any other nation when the gum hits the fan.

So, at this point, it wouldn't matter if we went home and took our toys with us. It wouldn't matter to them. We are the Great Satan in their eyes, therefore, we are to die.

So, if we can't, nor shouldn't, kill them all, and we shouldn't close the curtain on any foreign policy whatsoever, what is left?

Well, for one thing, we must agree on just who the enemy is in the first place. Here's my take: The enemy is anyone that wants to cause harm to America, it's citizens, or it's allies in combat or trade for the purpose of killing, disruption, or the support of misguided ideology.

Currently, and in my opinion, this enemy is identified by some taking some verses in their "holy" book, taking these ideas to the extreme, and building the support needed by manipulation to attack us for our support of their #1 true enemy. Their goal is to see the nation of Israel pushed into the sea. A total and complete eradication of every Jew, Christian, and non-Muslim that they can get their hands on. Their religious leaders preach this, their national leaders pursue this, and they are quite effective at having hundreds of thousands of their followers fall in line with this stuff.

So, if we can pretty much determine who the greatest current threat to the US is, the biggest question becomes...just what can we do about it? Realistically, I mean?

We can't kill them all, and we can't shut ourselves out completely from the rest of the world, so my vote is: head 'em off at the pass!

Appeasement will not work. Not in this case, anyway. They care little about what we can give them, other than maybe some cool nuclear development info. We have poured countless millions into their countries, and yet they continue to leave their masses in poverty. We have bought their oil, and made their leaders rich, but yet they still claim we are of satan. We have reached out to them and welcomed them into our borders, yet they claim we are holding them back from a life of purity by existing in such a corrupt state. Their religious beliefs go only as far as the dollar goes, much like any other politician. They my friend, are just as corrupt and nasty as we are, yet they espouse some holy notion that our nation is of the devil, and they are now on a mission to end us.

Complete and total BS! Their hypocrisy sticks out like a pink turban!

Observe any nation built around radical Islam and show me how they are more virtuous than the US.......

I'll wait............

Now, how many could you name?

Exactly!

We are oppressing them? No, they are oppressing themselves by design, and using the world's compassion to build their case against us.

Why? Because we support their true enemy, Israel. 

Don't you think that they know what they are doing? They are using a tactic that becomes clear, when you put just a though into it.

Listen, they do not have the will or the means to take us on directly. If they did, they would have done so by now. Now, why do you think they want nukes so bad? If they get enough of them, they will be equal in might with us, and can then force our hands and sculpt us into what they want us to be, which is dead. They don't want us to go home and leave them alone, they want us gone. Their goal is total domination as a religious power. Actually, that statement wasn't quite true, their goal is total world domination, and they use their religion as the means to do this, don't they?

No, at this point, they cannot take us on face to face, so they are using another tactic, and quite effectively, I might add. It is one that they have been using ever since Israel was raised again as a nation, over 50 years ago. The tactic involves trying to turn world opinion onto their side, and use any means needed to win the approval of the world, to make their case and weaken their enemy. They do this through creating an image of of oppression, and feeding the hearts of the world with a steady diet of suffering and woe, most of which they have brought upon themselves in the first place, as a means of deception.

Ask yourself some easy questions like: why would the nations that sit on most of the world's oil supply keep their people in poverty? Why will the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, and other simply not take back the people they sent into Israel to be refugees in the first place? That's where they came from, isn't it? Why wouldn't they simply take them back?

Because, my friend, if they took back their own people that they hung out to dry, their wouldn't be any refugee problem to build a case upon, would there be?

In simple terms, it's a set up. A lie that was created some years ago to build a case for the destruction of Israel. They couldn't take Israel on directly and win, so they needed another angle.

Now, as they apply the same tactics against the US, it has never been more effective. Today, most of the world hates us, but they don't even know why! Listen to them on the news sometime; people are just spouting out what they have heard about us, but they never really take the time to look a little deeper at the situations, do they?

No, they follow like sheep over a cliff, and never take the time to see the bridge, just a short distance away.

Do you see what we are dealing with? Lies, distortions, complete fabrications, and a host of nasty little ideas that have captured the hearts of millions. This is the enemy we fight. It's sad that only a few nations of the world can really see what is happening, but it's true.

But it makes no difference to me.

This is the enemy we face as a nation. We can ignore the problem, or we can confront it. Is it a losing cause? So be it, I'll lose fighting, I guess, the same way you  would if you faced the same problem, on a smaller scale, in your own home.

Jesus talked of turning the other cheek and offering the other side as well, but I don't think He was talking about this instance. Not completely, anyway. If I was to be captured because I was a Christian, and was tortured for my belief, than I would have no problem dying for Him, if that is what it would come to. But, this is not a case of religious persecution, is it?

No, it is a case of a terrible bunch of people that are manipulating millions into believing in their cause. They are playing on the fears of others in the hopes that they will not join us in the fight, and it is working. They understand that most people are lazy, and will resist anything that takes them out of their comfort zone, and they are proven right. They have won the battle of the hearts and minds of the indifferent and the slothful. They have created chaos and confusion, in the exact way in which they had hope for, and they now have a foothold on our very front door. In fact, they now have footholds within the very house, I'm afraid!

Given the situation, I remain ready to go into their yard, and stop them before they come into mine. I stand ready to defend against this, as long as my body and mind are able. I'm only 39, so I have a few years left, hopefully, and God willing.

Hopefully, the world will come to it's senses before it's too late, and we have to live in radical islamic oppression until Jesus come back. We really need the help.

We need others in the world that will help us, so that our women do not have to cover their faces in public, and so our children never have to go through re-education camps learning the hatred that is taught there. We need the help to provide a world in which we can preach Christ without the fear of death or prison, but if that is all we have left, I'm tying my laces and heading to the streets to shout Christ. We need the help of others to keep our promise of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. We need the help of the world to counter this very real threat.

We have shown that we will go the distance alone if need be, but I'm afraid we will not prevail if we must.

We need the help.

If you are falling for the lies of radical islam, then please think about what is going on. If you don't want to fight, then I can understand completely. Not everyone can, but everyone can help. Stop by the local VA and spend a minute with someone there. Donate blood, send a card, buy a cup of coffee for someone, and above all that you can do here on Earth: Pray.

If, after reading this, you still cannot understand me, or if you can, but simply disagree, then please, just stand out of the way while the fight goes on. No amount of pleading with them, feigning understanding of their plight, or sympathizing with them will stop them. They have no desire to let you live, simply because you do not fall in line with their brand of islam. They have no desire to let you live even if you are a follower of Islam, yet do not fall in line with their thinking. The Taliban killed off thousands of their Islamic "Brothers", simply because they did not fall in line with them. Same in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, or any of the "Stans", as well.

You see, Bush is right: We are not fighting Islam, although the religion is anything but blasphemy against the One true God. We are not fighting Islam, we are fighting those people that have taken up a cause against us, by our support of Israel, and are hiding behind the mask of Islam. Although I do think Islam is in error according to the Bible, my fight, and my country's fight, is not against Islam, but against the people that are using it as an excuse to fight us, and kill us.

Every last one of us.

Would it surprise you if I said I would fight in the same way if a group had attacked us in the name of Christ? To me, if some group had flown planes into the WTC with a banner proclaiming Jesus trailing behind them, they would be every much my enemy, as well. Sane people, followers of a god, or God, do not do such things, that is how we can tell if they are fighting in the name of truth or not. We can see that our current enemy is crazy, and they care little about their "god". They care about what they have been taught, not about who has touched them eternally.

So, my friend, we have an enemy willing to end us, and all that we are.

Are we willing to let them? 

All that is left now is right and wrong.

t.

PS- I did a spelling check, but still there may be some words that escape. I got too tired trying to weed them out, so just apply the rest to my stupidity! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well spoken, ted!!! Yet another masterpiece!!

[nebula]

Wow, ted!

Awesome post!

I wish you could send that in as a commentary to as many newspapers as possible.

[ted]

I would, but it was a cut and paste from my own mind, and I just don't give permission to just any me that comes along.

I'm pretty picky!

t.

[Eadora]

Wow Ted!

time Time but you are "Worthy"

You make a good case!

And best of all you don

[Guest shiloh357]

The people who lived in Palestine prior to the establishment of the nation ISRAEL had lived there for generations,

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica Palestine was, at that time, inhabited by a large assortment of peoples from nation-subjects of the Ottoman empire. There was a wide assortment of nationalities representing over 50 different languages. This assortment included Algerians, Armenians, Bosnians, Circassians, Druzes, Greeks, Egyptians, Kurds, Turks, Jews, Tatars, and others as well. The region of Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 402 years, Prior to the Ottoman empire, The Seljuks (1071-1099) were Turkish mercenaries. Saladin, who defeated the crusaders (1187-1260), was a Kurd. The Mamluks (1260-1516) were descendants of Turkish and Caucasian slave soldiers. From 1516-1918, Palestine was under the rule of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

There was no Palestinian people living for generations as so many history revisionists claim.

Furthermore the Land that was settled for a Jewish state was mostly swamps and desert, which was legally purchased by Jews from absentee Arab landowners living outside the land, mostly in Lebanon. The Land was of no interest to the Arabs due to its inhospitable nature. No Arabs were displaced, since the Land being settled was uninhabited. Many Jews died from Malaria trying to dry up the swamps by planting eucilyptis trees. It was the Jews who dried up the swamps, it was the Jews who irrigated the deserts and started building cities, and farms and growing crops and orchards and so forth.

Many Arabs came into the Land in the 30's and 40's to find work since it had been published abroad that the Jews were hiring migrant workers help them in their endeavors. Arab migrants came from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. to find work given that the economies of the surrounding Arab nations were in shambles. The "Palestinians" are actually the descendents of the those migrant workers. The claim that they inhabited the Land for generations is a myth, and is unsupported by genuine history. The claim that they were displaced by the Jews, is also not supported by genuine history. For 19 years, the Palestinians lived under Jordanian and Egyptian rule in the West Bank and Gaza, respectively. There was no claim of any "occupation" or displacement until AFTER Israel defeated Jordan and Egypt in the six day war and created a military buffer in those regions to prevent Jordan and Egypt from launching attacks from those regions again.

They are given

[amor]

The people who lived in Palestine prior to the establishment of the nation ISRAEL had lived there for generations,

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica Palestine was, at that time, inhabited by a large assortment of peoples from nation-subjects of the Ottoman empire. There was a wide assortment of nationalities representing over 50 different languages. This assortment included Algerians, Armenians, Bosnians, Circassians, Druzes, Greeks, Egyptians, Kurds, Turks, Jews, Tatars, and others as well. The region of Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 402 years, Prior to the Ottoman empire, The Seljuks (1071-1099) were Turkish mercenaries. Saladin, who defeated the crusaders (1187-1260), was a Kurd. The Mamluks (1260-1516) were descendants of Turkish and Caucasian slave soldiers. From 1516-1918, Palestine was under the rule of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

There was no Palestinian people living for generations as so many history revisionists claim.

Furthermore the Land that was settled for a Jewish state was mostly swamps and desert, which was legally purchased by Jews from absentee Arab landowners living outside the land, mostly in Lebanon. The Land was of no interest to the Arabs due to its inhospitable nature. No Arabs were displaced, since the Land being settled was uninhabited. Many Jews died from Malaria trying to dry up the swamps by planting eucilyptis trees. It was the Jews who dried up the swamps, it was the Jews who irrigated the deserts and started building cities, and farms and growing crops and orchards and so forth.

Many Arabs came into the Land in the 30's and 40's to find work since it had been published abroad that the Jews were hiring migrant workers help them in their endeavors. Arab migrants came from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. to find work given that the economies of the surrounding Arab nations were in shambles. The "Palestinians" are actually the descendents of the those migrant workers. The claim that they inhabited the Land for generations is a myth, and is unsupported by genuine history. The claim that they were displaced by the Jews, is also not supported by genuine history. For 19 years, the Palestinians lived under Jordanian and Egyptian rule in the West Bank and Gaza, respectively. There was no claim of any "occupation" or displacement until AFTER Israel defeated Jordan and Egypt in the six day war and created a military buffer in those regions to prevent Jordan and Egypt from launching attacks from those regions again.

They are given

[Guest shiloh357]

The people who lived in Palestine prior to the establishment of the nation ISRAEL had lived there for generations,

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica Palestine was, at that time, inhabited by a large assortment of peoples from nation-subjects of the Ottoman empire. There was a wide assortment of nationalities representing over 50 different languages. This assortment included Algerians, Armenians, Bosnians, Circassians, Druzes, Greeks, Egyptians, Kurds, Turks, Jews, Tatars, and others as well. The region of Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 402 years, Prior to the Ottoman empire, The Seljuks (1071-1099) were Turkish mercenaries. Saladin, who defeated the crusaders (1187-1260), was a Kurd. The Mamluks (1260-1516) were descendants of Turkish and Caucasian slave soldiers. From 1516-1918, Palestine was under the rule of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

There was no Palestinian people living for generations as so many history revisionists claim.

Furthermore the Land that was settled for a Jewish state was mostly swamps and desert, which was legally purchased by Jews from absentee Arab landowners living outside the land, mostly in Lebanon. The Land was of no interest to the Arabs due to its inhospitable nature. No Arabs were displaced, since the Land being settled was uninhabited. Many Jews died from Malaria trying to dry up the swamps by planting eucilyptis trees. It was the Jews who dried up the swamps, it was the Jews who irrigated the deserts and started building cities, and farms and growing crops and orchards and so forth.

Many Arabs came into the Land in the 30's and 40's to find work since it had been published abroad that the Jews were hiring migrant workers help them in their endeavors. Arab migrants came from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. to find work given that the economies of the surrounding Arab nations were in shambles. The "Palestinians" are actually the descendents of the those migrant workers. The claim that they inhabited the Land for generations is a myth, and is unsupported by genuine history. The claim that they were displaced by the Jews, is also not supported by genuine history. For 19 years, the Palestinians lived under Jordanian and Egyptian rule in the West Bank and Gaza, respectively. There was no claim of any "occupation" or displacement until AFTER Israel defeated Jordan and Egypt in the six day war and created a military buffer in those regions to prevent Jordan and Egypt from launching attacks from those regions again.

They are given

[amor]

Furthermore, the point I was making was that there were NO Arabs living on the Land purchased by the Jews to settle and create Israel upon West of the Jordan.  The Arab claim to being displaced by the incoming Jews is a lie created out of whole cloth, believed  by the Arabs and their gullable amen corner in the West.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but plenty of Arab land was taken within the boundaries of Israel post-1948; and in Gaza, and the West Bank after their occupation.

[Guest shiloh357]

Furthermore, the point I was making was that there were NO Arabs living on the Land purchased by the Jews to settle and create Israel upon West of the Jordan.