How I avoid word twisters

[Justin Adams]

Look up the Greek 'monogenes' and see how it is misunderstood.

[1] Michael S. Heiser writes,

It [i.e. monogenēs] doesn’t mean “only begotten” in some sort of “birthing” sense. The confusion extends from an old misunderstanding of the root of the Greek word. For years monogenes was thought to have derived from two Greek terms mono (“only”) and gennaō (“to beget, bear”). Greek scholars later discovered that the second part of the word monogenes does not come from the Greek verb gennao but rather from the noun genos (“class” or “kind”). The term literally means “one of a kind” or “unique” without connotation of created origin.
Heiser, The Unseen Realm: Rediscovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible (Bellingham WA: Lexham Press, 2015) (Google Books)

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The term literally means “one of a kind” or “unique” without connotation of created origin.

 

@Justin Adams

You are right, that is indeed the case. The Lord Jesus Christ is truly "one of a kind" or "unique".  Because he:
a) He a human was not created from the earth like Adam.
b) Because He as Son of God was not created like the angels.
c) But because He Jesus Christ the Son of the Most High God was born as a human with a fleshly body.
He Jesus is a human in similitude of God, having all the power of God. (Fil.2:6, Matt.28:18)

In other words:
The Word was God,
The Word became flesh,
God became flesh,
God was born as a human,
His Name is Jesus Christ.
 (John 1: 1 and verse 14)

This makes the Lord Jesus unique. Praise his Name!

[Hopefully]

I am not sure why people are writing as if I said I don’t trust the translations. I said I don’t understand all verses in the KJV and don’t trust (word twisters) or just any man to interpret it for me so thankfully God has provided a version in my language where I don’t have to ask man what it means. Here is an example.

A word twister told me that according to the Bible sex alone is marriage, because he wanted to have sex with me and I told him I didn’t want to fornicate. I then showed this verse that appears to be speaking of a wedding 

“Here are ladies of honor, daughters of kings. Your bride stands at your right side, wearing a gown decorated with the finest gold. My lady, listen to me. Listen carefully and understand me. Forget your people and your father’s family, so that the king will be pleased with your beauty. He will be your new husband, so you must honor him. People from Tyre will bring you gifts. Their richest people will try to win your friendship. The princess is so beautiful in her gown, like a pearl set in gold. Clothed in beauty, she is led to the king, followed by her bridesmaids. Filled with joy and excitement, they enter into the king’s palace.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:9-15‬ ‭
 

I was told it’s not a wedding. I then said I was not concerned with a fancy wedding but I did feel the actual act of getting married (at least at a courthouse) and meeting each other’s family was proper. Again I was told sex is all that is required to be married. 
 

this same person said they were one of the 144,000. I then showed this verse about the 144,000 using KJV because that’s what he preferred and had showed great anger towards me for using the ERV

“These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:4‬ ‭

I then said this can’t be you because you are not a virgin. I was then told a virgin did not mean one who has never had sex. I was also told fornication was not two unmarried people having sex because sex is marriage. I was told fornication is a man having sex with another mans wife. I then said well then what is adultry, and was told they are the same thing. 
 
Next I said you have been asking me for nudes and the Bible says 

“But I tell you that if a man looks at a woman and wants to sin sexually with her, he has already committed that sin with her in his mind.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:28‬ 

I was then told - you are my wife so it’s not a sin. I said but we are not married. He then said but we will be married and it not a sin for a man to look at naked pictures of single women only if they are married.

next I was told God is only going to save people from the 12 tribes of Israel so then I showed this verse 

“Then I looked, and there was a large crowd of people. There were so many people that no one could count them all. They were from every nation, tribe, race of people, and language of the earth. They were standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They all wore white robes and had palm branches in their hands.

Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people in white robes? Where did they come from?” I answered, “You know who they are, sir.” And the elder said, “These are the ones who have come out of the great suffering. They have washed their robes with the blood of the Lamb, and they are clean and white.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9, 13-14‬ ‭
 

I can’t remember what his rebuttal was for this one but my point here is people love to twist the Bible. This man demanded that I only use KJV so that he could say every word means something else when I can see it didn’t by context of the verse above and below. This was not a man who did not practice faith he belonged to a religious organization.

He in fact was the inspiration for my post here. 
 

It is not the KJV I don’t trust it’s men who twist the words and again thankfully God has provided a version in a language I understand so I don’t need a  man to interpret its meaning. God has allowed the ERV and all others to exist and most importantly my version says Jesus is Lord! My version says repent and  be Baptized! My version shows me the right way to live!! 

 

 

[Hopefully]

Btw this man also had 3 other wives who each lived in a different state than him. And we know they are his wives only because he has sex with them. He drilled into my head how God is fine with men having more than one wife. 

I said I wasn’t keen on the idea but felt they should at least all live together as a family for these women hadn’t even ever met each other. I refused to be added to this list!

My rebuttal was that Adam and Eve was Gods prescription for man, and that the men in the Bible having multiple wives was a description. 
 

I see how SOME devout users of KJV live and understand Gods word and I just don’t feel I am in agreement because of what I have read and understand using the ERV and comparing the verses to KJV to be sure I understand. 
 

“I want you to know that I am trying very hard to help you. And I am trying to help those in Laodicea and others who have never seen me. I want them to be strengthened and joined together with love and to have the full confidence that comes from understanding. I want them to know completely the secret truth that God has made known. That truth is Christ himself.

I tell you this so that no one can fool you by telling you ideas that seem good, but are false.

Be sure you are not led away by the teaching of those who have nothing worth saying and only plan to deceive you. That teaching is not from Christ. It is only human tradition and comes from the powers that influence this world. I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth. And because you belong to Christ you are complete, having everything you need. Christ is ruler over every other power and authority. In Christ you had a different kind of circumcision, one that was not done by human hands. That is, you were made free from the power of your sinful self. That is the kind of circumcision Christ does.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:1-2, 4, 8-11

 

 

 

 

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

I am not sure why people are writing as if I said I don’t trust the translations. I said I don’t understand all verses in the KJV and don’t trust (word twisters) or just any man to interpret it for me so thankfully God has provided a version in my language where I don’t have to ask man what it means. Here is an example.

A word twister told me that according to the Bible sex alone is marriage, because he wanted to have sex with me and I told him I didn’t want to fornicate. I then showed this verse that appears to be speaking of a wedding 

“Here are ladies of honor, daughters of kings. Your bride stands at your right side, wearing a gown decorated with the finest gold. My lady, listen to me. Listen carefully and understand me. Forget your people and your father’s family, so that the king will be pleased with your beauty. He will be your new husband, so you must honor him. People from Tyre will bring you gifts. Their richest people will try to win your friendship. The princess is so beautiful in her gown, like a pearl set in gold. Clothed in beauty, she is led to the king, followed by her bridesmaids. Filled with joy and excitement, they enter into the king’s palace.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:9-15‬ ‭
 

I was told it’s not a wedding. I then said I was not concerned with a fancy wedding but I did feel the actual act of getting married (at least at a courthouse) and meeting each other’s family was proper. Again I was told sex is all that is required to be married. 
 

this same person said they were one of the 144,000. I then showed this verse about the 144,000 using KJV because that’s what he preferred and had showed great anger towards me for using the ERV

“These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:4‬ ‭

I then said this can’t be you because you are not a virgin. I was then told a virgin did not mean one who has never had sex. I was also told fornication was not two unmarried people having sex because sex is marriage. I was told fornication is a man having sex with another mans wife. I then said well then what is adultry, and was told they are the same thing. 
 
Next I said you have been asking me for nudes and the Bible says 

“But I tell you that if a man looks at a woman and wants to sin sexually with her, he has already committed that sin with her in his mind.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:28‬ 

I was then told - you are my wife so it’s not a sin. I said but we are not married. He then said but we will be married and it not a sin for a man to look at naked pictures of single women only if they are married.

next I was told God is only going to save people from the 12 tribes of Israel so then I showed this verse 

“Then I looked, and there was a large crowd of people. There were so many people that no one could count them all. They were from every nation, tribe, race of people, and language of the earth. They were standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They all wore white robes and had palm branches in their hands.

Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people in white robes? Where did they come from?” I answered, “You know who they are, sir.” And the elder said, “These are the ones who have come out of the great suffering. They have washed their robes with the blood of the Lamb, and they are clean and white.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9, 13-14‬ ‭
 

I can’t remember what his rebuttal was for this one but my point here is people love to twist the Bible. This man demanded that I only use KJV so that he could say every word means something else when I can see it didn’t by context of the verse above and below. This was not a man who did not practice faith he belonged to a religious organization.

He in fact was the inspiration for my post here. 
 

It is not the KJV I don’t trust it’s men who twist the words and again thankfully God has provided a version in a language I understand so I don’t need a  man to interpret its meaning. God has allowed the ERV and all others to exist and most importantly my version says Jesus is Lord! My version says repent and  be Baptized! My version shows me the right way to live!! 

 

 

Sister, I am impressed how well you have used God's word against the temptations and lies of sin.  Praise God!
Sex is indeed intended for marriage between one man and one woman.
(Beware for the watchtower society and stay away from their dogmas!)
Please keep reading the Bible and pray to the Lord Jesus that you may receive His Holy Spirit as light on what you read.

 God bless you!

[Hopefully]

@Frits thank you very much I appreciate your support! God Bless you too.

[Starise]

3 hours ago, Hopefully said:

Btw this man also had 3 other wives who each lived in a different state than him. And we know they are his wives only because he has sex with them. He drilled into my head how God is fine with men having more than one wife. 

I said I wasn’t keen on the idea but felt they should at least all live together as a family for these women hadn’t even ever met each other. I refused to be added to this list!

My rebuttal was that Adam and Eve was Gods prescription for man, and that the men in the Bible having multiple wives was a description. 
 

I see how SOME devout users of KJV live and understand Gods word and I just don’t feel I am in agreement because of what I have read and understand using the ERV and comparing the verses to KJV to be sure I understand. 
 

“I want you to know that I am trying very hard to help you. And I am trying to help those in Laodicea and others who have never seen me. I want them to be strengthened and joined together with love and to have the full confidence that comes from understanding. I want them to know completely the secret truth that God has made known. That truth is Christ himself.

I tell you this so that no one can fool you by telling you ideas that seem good, but are false.

Be sure you are not led away by the teaching of those who have nothing worth saying and only plan to deceive you. That teaching is not from Christ. It is only human tradition and comes from the powers that influence this world. I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth. And because you belong to Christ you are complete, having everything you need. Christ is ruler over every other power and authority. In Christ you had a different kind of circumcision, one that was not done by human hands. That is, you were made free from the power of your sinful self. That is the kind of circumcision Christ does.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:1-2, 4, 8-11

 

 

 

 

I would run away from this man just as fast as I could. He is simply twisting the word in order to get something he wants. He has no interest in really knowing what it means.

There is much  little known history about the making of the KJV and the people behind it. I wish I could say it was all squeaky clean. The translation itself is pretty accurate if you can get past the old English. Not 100% accurate though. To be fair, the minor discrepancies that do exist are not significant enough to invalidate any of the main ideas presented in it. The life of King James himself was in great contrast to what the book teaches which is, I guess, a small matter so long as the translation holds up.

I came from churches that worship the KJV like it is the ONLY version any Christian should use. Lot's of dispensationalists and pre tribbers latched onto the KJV as the defacto version of the English Bible. They looked down on anyone who uses anything else. I was raised in this background. It wasn't a personal choice at the time. Now I make sure that whatever version I read it is a good representation of the original words. I'm not tied to the KJV. In my experiences some of the most legalistic teaching I have ever endured came from men who taught through the KJV. I'm not blaming the KJV, but in my experience it seemed to come along with their requirements to be a "Good Christian".

Any version that denies Jesus Christ as the son of God, that He came as a sacrifice for our sins, that He was born of a virgin, that He rose again is suspect. Any version that denies any of this is not a good version. We really need to be careful when looking for a good bible to read. 

There are plenty of teachers out there in left field teaching from good translations. They just pick and choose what they want it to say. Like your "friend" did.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Starise

[Hopefully]

@Starise oh I did run eventually and fast!! Lol thanks for you advice though because that was truly the best thing for me to do.

[Hopefully]

@Chicken coop2 I am glad I’m clear now and I don’t hold myself to a high enough regard to go around claiming what Bibles are good or not because I am far from a biblical expert. I just knew when I was reading the KJV only when in the beginning of my walk I didn’t feel I was getting much from it because I’d be googling something with each sentence I read in some verses. Once I found the ERV and could understand I then actually developed feelings for what I was reading. I felt this tied into the verses in my first post on this thread about people not gaining anything if they don’t understand what they are reading. That man I spoke about forbid me to say anything about the erv when having biblical talks with him so my back was always against the wall and I could not defend myself because I had to speak only referencing the KJV and that’s where he was able to twist Gods words into something else. 

[David1701]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:00 PM, Hopefully said:

Some often say I should use the King James Version over English versions. The  problem is since I don’t speak the language of the King James Version I am left with many questions about what SOME of the verses mean. This would cause me to rely on the interpretations of men who I cannot verify are inspired by God to do so. 

“I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to these, God will give that person the plagues written about in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away that person’s share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are written about in this book.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:18-19‬ ‭

Here we see it is wrong to add to or take away from the word however :

“He said to them, “Go everywhere in the world. Tell the Good News to everyone.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15‬ 

To go everywhere in the world this means the word must be translated to all languages.

“Remember that we are saved because our Lord is patient. Our dear brother Paul told you that same thing when he wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him. That’s what he says in all his letters when he writes about these things. There are parts of his letters that are hard to understand, and some people give a wrong meaning to them. These people are ignorant and weak in faith. They also give wrong meanings to the other Scriptures. But they are destroying themselves by doing that.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭
 

Now we see people will give wrong meaning to scriptures if we read where we don’t understand and rely on others for translation. 
 

“Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church. I would like all of you to have the gift of speaking in different languages. But what I want more is for you to prophesy. Anyone who prophesies is more important than those who can only speak in different languages. However, if they can also interpret those languages, they are as important as the one who prophesies. If they can interpret, then the church can be helped by what they say. Brothers and sisters, will it help you if I come to you speaking in different languages? No, it will help you only if I bring you a new truth or some knowledge, prophecy, or teaching. This is true even with lifeless things that make sounds—like a flute or a harp. If the different musical notes are not made clear, you can’t understand what song is being played. Each note must be played clearly for you to be able to understand the tune. And in a war, if the trumpet does not sound clearly, the soldiers will not know it is time to prepare for fighting. It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them. That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger. So those who have the gift of speaking in a different language should pray that they can also interpret what they say. If I pray in a different language, my spirit is praying, but my mind does nothing. So what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. You might be praising God with your spirit. But someone there without understanding cannot say “Amen” to your prayer of thanks, because they don’t know what you are saying. You may be thanking God in a good way, but others are not helped. I thank God that my gift of speaking in different kinds of languages is greater than any of yours. But in the church meetings I would rather speak five words that I understand than thousands of words in a different language. I would rather speak with my understanding, so that I can teach others. Brothers and sisters, don’t think like children. In evil things be like babies, but in your thinking you should be like full-grown adults. As the Scriptures say, “Using those who speak a different language and using the lips of foreigners, I will speak to these people. But even then, they will not obey me.” Isaiah 28:11-12 This is what the Lord says. And from this we see that the use of different languages shows how God deals with those who don’t believe, not with those who believe. And prophecy shows how God works through those who believe, not through unbelievers. Suppose the whole church meets together and you all speak in different languages. If some people come in who are without understanding or don’t believe, they will say you are crazy. But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.” So, brothers and sisters, what should you do? When you meet together, one person has a song, another has a teaching, and another has a new truth from God. One person speaks in a different language, and another interprets that language. The purpose of whatever you do should be to help everyone grow stronger in faith. When you meet together, if anyone speaks to the group in a different language, it should be only two or no more than three people who do this. And they should speak one after the other. And someone else should interpret what they say. But if there is no interpreter, then anyone who speaks in a different language should be quiet in the church meeting. They should speak only to themselves and to God. And only two or three prophets should speak. The others should judge what they say. And if a message from God comes to someone who is sitting, the first speaker should be quiet. You can all prophesy one after the other. This way everyone can be taught and encouraged. The spirits of prophets are under the control of the prophets themselves. God is not a God of confusion but a God of peace. This is the rule for all the meetings of God’s people. The women should keep quiet in these church meetings. They are not allowed to speak out but should be under authority, as the Law of Moses says. If there is something they want to know, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak up like that in the church meeting. God’s teaching did not come from you, and you are not the only ones who have received it. If you think you are a prophet or that you have a spiritual gift, you should understand that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

So my brothers and sisters, continue to give your attention to prophesying. And don’t stop anyone from using the gift of speaking in different languages. But everything should be done in a way that is right and orderly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:1-37, 39-40‬ ‭
 

I am thankful that God has provided a translation in my language where I can read directly from his inspired where I can use context and not rely on others to explain the basic meanings of words. I do realize there are parables in the Bible which can be difficult to understand in any language, but in my experience when reading in languages you don’t understand and dealing with word twisters EVERY thing becomes a parable and NOTHING means exactly what it says.

I do often compare my English version to King James and it matches up to me. Most importantly the English versions state 

“Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him. People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son. They are judged by this fact: The light has come into the world. But they did not want light. They wanted darkness, because they were doing evil things. Everyone who does evil hates the light. They will not come to the light, because the light will show all the bad things they have done. But anyone who follows the true way comes to the light. Then the light will show that whatever they have done was done through God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-21

And

“Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭
 

Thank you for reading and God bless you.

 

Whatever translation it is that you are using, it is VERY inaccurate!

In John 3:16, it has changed the meaning.  The "so", in this verse, means "thus", or, "like this", not "so much".

John 3:16 For God loved the world like this: he gave his one-of-a-kind son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

It has also mangled Acts 2:38.  It interprets the verse as teaching that works (baptism) are necessary, in order to become saved.  This is heretical.

The correct interpretation is that the baptism is "... for the remission of sins..." (i.e. because of the remission of sins that the person already has, NOT in order to get remission of sins).

This does not mean that you need to use the KJV, with its antiquated English.  You could use the NKJV, for example, which is sound and reliable, as well as being in modern English.