How to Authentically Speak in Tongues

[Starise]

There's that herma word again 

Maybe we could pray for some interpretation up in here?

[LiveWire]

20 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

@NConly

1 Corin 14

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I know that tongue speakers for private use have been trained to see tongues for private use in chapter 14 even though 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 speaks against any of those gifts being for private use.

However, you should consider from your point of view, if it was really for private use, how can they let him speak to himself and to God when they are not there when they use tongues for private use?  So this is about in the assembly.

So you have to discern why Paul said what he had said in verse 28 in respect to verse 27 and that is out of that practice in verse 27, that if any foreigner visitor stand up to speak and there is no interpretation coming, then what he is saying is not manifested by the Holy Spirit for why he is to be "keep silence" in the church as Paul explained, "he speaks to himself and to God" meaning he understands what he is saying as he is speaking in his native tongue out of turn as God understands too.

Or else how can you rectify Paul saying not to forbid speaking in tongues and yet he commands this if there is no interpretation?

And the other point here is.... nobody likes members whispering next to them in the church pews even with a sound system to aid the speaker from the pulpit, as it is distracting and so in now way should any tongue speaker take verse 28 to mean he is praying in tongues quietly or in a low volume when Paul said to keep silence means silence.

When tongue speakers sees this truth by the grace of God, then they may see that 1 Corinthians 14:2 is about how the speaker does not understand what he is saying but God does, not that he is speaking TO God because there are no mysteries to be speaking to God about that is mysterious to Him, but only to the tongue speaker & those around him in the assembly until it is interpreted.

This is why from verse 1 that prophesy is better than tongues and all the other gifts combined because it not only edifies others but the speakers understands the edification in his language as well.

That is why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift for why Paul says for those speaking in tongues to pray that "He" may interpret thru another because that tongue is unfruitful to himself until he understands that tongue when interpreted.

Somehow or another, tongue speakers for private use seem to ignore the intention of Paul exhorting the gift of prophesy over all gifts starting from the first verse in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter as he began to show why by comparing tongues against prophesy for why prophesy is better than tongues, unless interpreted.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

At no time was Paul teaching tongues for private use when he was showing why prophesy was better than tongues and all other gifts for the assembly to seek after.

But somehow, tongue speakers walk away from reading 1 Corinthians 14th chapter as if exhorting them for the gift of tongues for private use to seek after instead.

1 Corin 14

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


.......and let him speak to himself, and to God.

When you Speak in Tongues in Church....and there's no interpretation.....................Paul explains WHAT you are DOING: and let him speak to himself, and to God.

^
Those Tongues Spoken and not Interpreted just mean they are for the Person Speaking in Tongues and for God...No One Else...just God [this is where the Mysteries are spoken] [For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.].....he utters mysteries with his spirit.

Paul just shows us how these Connect!

 

Paul just explained a real bonafide Pentecostal Worship Service!

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, LiveWire said:

1 Corin 14

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


.......and let him speak to himself, and to God.

When you Speak in Tongues in Church....and there's no interpretation.....................Paul explains WHAT you are DOING: and let him speak to himself, and to God.

^
Those Tongues Spoken and not Interpreted just mean they are for the Person Speaking in Tongues and for God...No One Else...just God [this is where the Mysteries are spoken] [For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.].....he utters mysteries with his spirit.

Paul just shows us how these Connect!

 

Paul just explained a real bonafide Pentecostal Worship Service!

Try holding a church service like that, brother.  

People are annoyed when people next to them are whispering as it is distracting and makes it hard for them to hear the main speaker, even in today's electronic sound system.  Now imagine that back in those days.

When there is no interpretation, silence means silence.  The person is speaking out of turn in his native tongue for why there is no interpretation for them to be made to be silent.

When you have this practice in church for two or three  to speak in tongues, one by one, and another interpret, a foreign visitor may not know what is going on and stand up and speak out of turn.  This s why when no interpretation, he is to keep silence.

He is not a nut ball speaking to himself and to God but that is Paul saying he understands what he is saying as God does too; not that he is speaking quietly to himself and to God.

I realize that you are not seeing the inconsistency of how you are applying that to mean when Paul said not to forbid speaking in tongues, but then who is he to say for that person to be keeping in silence when there is no interpretation?  Who is Paul to interrupt the "Spirit" saying anything thru that man when the Holy Spirit is bothering to have that man speak out loud?

The only reasonable conclusion is that because interpretation is not coming, that man is to keep silence because what he is saying is not being manifested by the Holy Ghost, otherwise, if it was God's gift of tongues, it would be coming with interpretation.

Thus no tongues for private use is being manifested in the assembly at all.

[Starise]

Just another thought on this. I imagine a person with this gift as not only having access to it in private and in 'church'.

So if your anywhere else, lets just say on a camping trip in the woods, and you aren't technically having church. I don't believe there are any rules for that one.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Right. One is given the gift of being able to SPEAK in other languages,

 Shalom Retrobyter, at 1 Corinthians 12:10  Paul describes in v.10 five gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed to believers. 

Those are gifts of the Holy Spirit given to a believer and it has nothing to do with his ability to quickly learn someone's else language. 

The "tongues" has nothing to do with our spoken languages.

(even though someone may think about the Day of Pentecost, where it was said by the people who heard the disciples speak they said: "we can hear them speak in our own language". Yes, the heard them speak in their own language even those who heard them they were bilingual. Because they also spoke to the disciples and the disciples spoke to them in their common language. 

There was not need for interpretation that time as it is described in 1 Cor.12:10.

In v.10 Paul is saying that the Holy has given a certain gift to someone to speak in tongues stipulated by the Holy Spirit while in a group of people...the message will be given in another tongue, this is why their is the need of someone with the gift of interpretation to interpret what was spoken...It is not about someone who is in knowledge of the tongue that was spoken and he can "translate" what was spoken. 

Or where a quest from a country with a different language is invited to speak and there is a need of someone who knows both languages to translate what he is saying...it is not about that what Paul is saying..

Paul is referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit as in v.11, and in the specific situation where the Holy Spirit is giving a word to someone for the benefit of the congregation and the person speaks the message but it is in an unknown tongue..This is the distingtion made in this specific situation, the believer with the gift is not repeating what the Holy Spirit is telling him...that can't be possible if the believer does not recognize what was said, it is not a message in his own language spoken in his heart from the Holy Spirit and that also can happened..but it is where the Holy Spirit takes over the believer as in the Day of Pentecost and the believer speaks the words the Holy Spirit puts in his mouth (not spoken in his heart) but put in his mouth....he has to speak those words spontaneously...without examining them first..

In this case are the words of the Holy Spirit spoken...and Paul continues to say that the Holy Spirit who knows what was the message because is the Holy Spirit who gave the message will cause someone who has the gift from the Holy Spirit to receive the interpretation...which made it clear that this person knows that he has the gift of the Holy Spirit to be given the interpretation...

Both those people may be known to the congregation that they have those gifts.. 

This is why Paul said: if there is no interpreter (with the gift from the Holy Spirit) 

(If not how Paul can say "no to speak unless there is an interpreter if the person has not spoken yet...and Paul cannot know the tongue the Holy Spirit will speak with...through the believer.

Paul can only make reference to someone with the gift from the Holy Spirit to receive the introduction from the Holy Spirit...

****Paul is giving instructions to the churches...it doesn't mean that he is present...when that is happening...Paul is speaking about specific situations...

(In v.11,  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.) 

 

a) V. 10, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues 

b)And alao in v.10 is.  and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

c) And also in v.10.  to another distinguishing between spirits, 

 

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

and another is able to HEAR other languages an those in his or her own language what these others are saying.

"Tongues" are languages. And, the languages of "angels" are simply the languages of messengers, for that is what "angel," or in Greek "aggelos," means! Some are GIFTED in using other languages; some, not so much.

I was constantly drilled EVERY SUMMER SCHOOL on French, but to this day, I RECOGNIZE it better than I speak it!

I've had to struggle learning Greek and then learning Hebrew. These other languages do NOT come naturally to me!

However, English, being both my native tongue and also having a mother who was a strict grammarian, helped me learn English better than most, but that was because my mother CONSTANTLY corrected me, particularly in the presence of my friends!

Looking back on what I've written here, she'd have a thing to say about my lack of parallel thoughts here! "Both ... and ..." should have two thoughts framed the same way, either as two adjectives, two nouns, or two clauses of the same type!

 

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, 

to another distinguishing between spirits, 

to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,

and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Just another thought on this. I imagine a person with this gift as not only having access to it in private and in 'church'.

So if your anywhere else, lets just say on a camping trip in the woods, and you aren't technically having church. I don't believe there are any rules for that one.

Except whenever any one comes upon said tongue speaker out in the woods.

1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

I suppose it would be an appropriate question to ask those who use tongues for private use, if they ever had trouble explaining themselves when someone came upon them unexpectantly?

If we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, with the Lord's help, how then can God's gift of tongues ever be for private use without looking mad?

 

[Your closest friendnt]

Paul specifically speaks about church or Prayer, or meetings where believers get together...like small groups.

Paul is specifically speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit...

He is not speaking about someone who speaks more that one language...and he is able to translate from one language to another. 

No he does not...In the specific Paul said "if there is not interpreter and before the person speaks...".

Before anyone knows even himself what the person will say or rather in what language he will speak...

Paul is referring to two different people with different gifts from the Holy Spirit...the first person having the gift to speak in other tongues a message from the Holy Spirit while in church or in small groups or in a prayer meetings.

As we are in the operation of the Gifts this is happening by the intervention of the Holy Spirit...the Holy Spirit will choose the time when those words are put in the mouth of the person who has that gift...or who has been given that gift...note the Holy Spirit will put the words in his mouth to speak words in an unknown tongue...and this person if a regular to the group is known to them having this gift and kind of expecting a message from the Holy Spirit during their meetings...

Paul also is speaking about another gift of the Holy Spirit to another believer...whom the Holy Spirit has chosen to give to him the meaning of the message spoken in other tongues by the first person...Paul is saying that the Lord will raise amongst you believers with those gifts.

And those people are get to be known to the group they attend. 

Let's go first in the specific situation where only the person with the gift from the Holy Spirit to interpret is present in the meeting...if anyone with the gift to give a message from the Holy Spirit is not present and no one  speaks a message from the Holy Spirit it is understood that the person with the interpretation gift..will not say anything...

But in the other situation where a person with the gift to speak a message of the Holy Spirit is present and not known person with the gift of the Holy Spirit is present that day ...Paul said something about that...He said not to speak if the person knows that there is no one present who has the gift to interpret...if this a quidance or a prohibition we need to look into that is a following post. And other situations Paul spoke about...

[farouk]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Try holding a church service like that, brother.  

People are annoyed when people next to them are whispering as it is distracting and makes it hard for them to hear the main speaker, even in today's electronic sound system.  Now imagine that back in those days.

When there is no interpretation, silence means silence.  The person is speaking out of turn in his native tongue for why there is no interpretation for them to be made to be silent.

When you have this practice in church for two or three  to speak in tongues, one by one, and another interpret, a foreign visitor may not know what is going on and stand up and speak out of turn.  This s why when no interpretation, he is to keep silence.

He is not a nut ball speaking to himself and to God but that is Paul saying he understands what he is saying as God does too; not that he is speaking quietly to himself and to God.

I realize that you are not seeing the inconsistency of how you are applying that to mean when Paul said not to forbid speaking in tongues, but then who is he to say for that person to be keeping in silence when there is no interpretation?  Who is Paul to interrupt the "Spirit" saying anything thru that man when the Holy Spirit is bothering to have that man speak out loud?

The only reasonable conclusion is that because interpretation is not coming, that man is to keep silence because what he is saying is not being manifested by the Holy Ghost, otherwise, if it was God's gift of tongues, it would be coming with interpretation.

Thus no tongues for private use is being manifested in the assembly at all.

@ChristB4us Ppl sometimes think their utterances are from God whereas it's not true at all...............

We do need to stick to what the Scriptures say.

[LiveWire]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Try holding a church service like that, brother.  

People are annoyed when people next to them are whispering as it is distracting and makes it hard for them to hear the main speaker, even in today's electronic sound system.  Now imagine that back in those days.

When there is no interpretation, silence means silence.  The person is speaking out of turn in his native tongue for why there is no interpretation for them to be made to be silent.

When I Pray in English I could care less if you are beside me or not.  In fact, You don't even exist as my mind and heart is devoted and thinking solely upon God.

 

And when it's time to Preach, no one is doing as you suggest.  

 

I've got a lifetime of experiences in Pentecostal Congregations and you just have no idea what you are even talking about.   You are creating a Make Belief Scenario like those in the pew next to you can't hear the Preaching because someone is jumping around, whispering, etc,

 

Paul is talking about Prayer and Worship time.  By the time the Preaching begins, People are done Worshiping and Praising God.

[LiveWire]

2 minutes ago, farouk said:

@ChristB4us Ppl sometimes think their utterances are from God whereas it's not true at all...............

We do need to stick to what the Scriptures say.

have you ever saw something so sinful and shameful you felt anger rising up inside you before you and your body were caught up to the same level?

God inside us sees what we see. It Angers Him, it hurts Hims way before we get it, but then we start getting angry or hurt about it ourselves. Speaking in Tongues is no different. When the Holy Spirit gives the Utterances, you just follow that leading.