Pretrib began with Darby?

[Diaste]

As far back as the 4th century, and maybe the 2nd century, there are reports of historians and 'church fathers' alluding to a pretrib rapture.

Paul was opposing some false teaching about the Day of the Lord and the gathering of us to Jesus in writing 2 Thess 2.

Was pretrib taught in Paul's day and what was Paul opposing?

Did the followers of the Way teach a pretrib rapture?

Is the doctrine wrong if begun by Darby?

Is it correct if mentioned by Irenaeus, Polycarp, etc?

[Alive]

Some folks in and around Thessalonica were teaching that the 'day of the Lord' had already come. I don't see how that bears on a pre-trib rapture.

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

As far back as the 4th century, and maybe the 2nd century, there are reports of historians and 'church fathers' alluding to a pretrib rapture.

Paul was opposing some false teaching about the Day of the Lord and the gathering of us to Jesus in writing 2 Thess 2.

Was pretrib taught in Paul's day and what was Paul opposing?

Did the followers of the Way teach a pretrib rapture?

Is the doctrine wrong if begun by Darby?

Is it correct if mentioned by Irenaeus, Polycarp, etc?

As Alive has said, Paul was opposing the false teaching that the Day of the Lord had already come (i.e. before he wrote the letter, which was about 53 A.D.).

2 Thess. 2:1-4 (VW)

1 Now brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together to Him, we ask you
2 not to be quickly disturbed in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the Day of Christ has come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is unveiled, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is honoured, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, declaring of himself that he is God.

The falling away (i.e. apostasy - falling away from the faith once for all delivered to the saints) had to happen first; and this happened early on in Church history (almost certainly by the time of Constantine, otherwise he could not have made his version of paganised "Christianity" the religion of Rome and had the support of the professing Christians in the empire).

The man of sin also had to be unveiled; and this happened when the Bishop of Rome was call "Pontifex Maximus" (a pagan religious title that the later Caesars had been given) and sat in the temple of God (i.e. the Church) proclaiming himself to be "Holy Father" (a title belonging only to God) and "Vicar of Christ" (another title of blasphemy, meaning "Instead of Christ").

Darby's Dispensationalism has caused great damage in the body of Christ and misled many thousands of Christians.

P.S.  I would like to add that, as far as I know, Darby was not deliberately deceiving anyone; but he was mistaken about Dispensationalism.

Edited January 3, 2021 by David1701
missing word

[Diaste]

33 minutes ago, Alive said:

Some folks in and around Thessalonica were teaching that the 'day of the Lord' had already come. I don't see how that bears on a pre-trib rapture.

Because the Coming of the Lord and the Gathering are linked by Paul. Hence, the gathering would have happened already as well as the false teaching they were in the day of the Lord. Paul seems to be setting the record straight on both. 

So then the letters or words 'as if from us' could have been alluding to a pretrib rapture also. Maybe. Just asking the questions.

[Diaste]

17 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Darby's Dispensationalism has caused great damage in the body of Christ and misled many thousands of Christians.

Yes. Preterism too.

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Diaste said:

So then the letters or words 'as if from us' could have been alluding to a pretrib rapture also.

Could you clarify this? I dunna get it.

[David1701]

26 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Yes. Preterism too.

Yes; Futurism and Preterism are Jesuit teachings, to take Christians' minds off the present.

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Yes; Futurism and Preterism are Jesuit teachings, to take Christians' minds off the present.

What does preterism and futurism mean to you? Sincere question.

[Diaste]

33 minutes ago, Alive said:

Could you clarify this? I dunna get it.

If there were false teachings about the Day of the Lord, could not there be false teaching about the rapture?

It seems a pretrib rapture idea goes way back, possibly to the time of Paul. Certainly it predates Darby. 

Paul linked the Day and the Gathering; possibly to confront false teaching on both.

So was there a pretrib teaching back then? I dunno. Just asking to see what others say.

 

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

What does preterism and futurism mean to you? Sincere question.

Preterism is the teaching that all the biblical prophecies are events that have already happened.

Futurism is the teaching that all, or most, eschatological prophecies are yet to occur, and will occur shortly before the Lord returns.

These are extreme views; but I (and many other Christians) take a middle view: that some eschatological events prophesied have occurred but some are yet to occur.